Busting airspace
Join Date: May 2009
Location: In a caravan
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote:
Those who commit VCAs should have their license suspended and be required to resit a checkride with a CASA FOI. That should be a good deterrent.
I take it you have never been lost then?
Those who commit VCAs should have their license suspended and be required to resit a checkride with a CASA FOI. That should be a good deterrent.
I take it you have never been lost then?
VCA's will happen. The other day I listened to a check and training captain in a metro bust straight into Sydney off the end of the YSBK zone due to being distracted. It can happen to anyone no matter how experienced.
I'm no proponent of VCAs but taking such severe action (license suspension) is retarded. All it would lead to is more 'transponder off dive bomb shenanigans' from people who now have something worthwhile to fear, not just a friendly letter from CASA.
I'm no proponent of VCAs but taking such severe action (license suspension) is retarded. All it would lead to is more 'transponder off dive bomb shenanigans' from people who now have something worthwhile to fear, not just a friendly letter from CASA.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mel-burn
Posts: 4,875
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I once attempted to enter cta with a non operational mode-c ;coming into cta for maintenance on it) for which I received a letter for. The controller warned me that it would go on record that I tried to enter cta knowingly with a non-operational mode-c. Had I said that mode-c was "not fitted" nothing would have come of it.
Receiving a letter from CASA is not that bad for an offence just as long as they don't keep appearing in your mailbox. Thinking about it though they sent my letter to me ad the operator so in theory they don't know who was driving at the time, would have to retrospectively check back to find out.
Receiving a letter from CASA is not that bad for an offence just as long as they don't keep appearing in your mailbox. Thinking about it though they sent my letter to me ad the operator so in theory they don't know who was driving at the time, would have to retrospectively check back to find out.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in the classroom of life
Age: 55
Posts: 6,864
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
eeper23
Not sure what they can do about dicky encoders, I have not been busted like that, however I had a faulty one once, it randomly spat out an altitude many thousands higher at times, was asked to MODE A it and they manually followed my ALT by checking with me. No problem but I can imagine they can not handle too many of those at once. I did fix it quick smart!
I do know of others..... but if you do not listen on the right freq you may never know!
J
Not sure what they can do about dicky encoders, I have not been busted like that, however I had a faulty one once, it randomly spat out an altitude many thousands higher at times, was asked to MODE A it and they manually followed my ALT by checking with me. No problem but I can imagine they can not handle too many of those at once. I did fix it quick smart!
I do know of others..... but if you do not listen on the right freq you may never know!
J
Encoders go dicky & we accept your word that you're however high you say you are - no further action taken other than to maybe ask you to only squawk alpha if it's bothering us.
eep, slight problem with your plan in that we assume you're at the level you say you're at & ignore you, continuing the risk of collision. Just own up, it's safer for all concerned. I'm far more interested in getting you where you want to go safely than punishing you. I'm guessing CASA only takes the full negative attitude to repeat offenders.
XXX, next time make a phone call first or indicate on your flight plan what the story is. Also tell the controller on first contact.
eep, slight problem with your plan in that we assume you're at the level you say you're at & ignore you, continuing the risk of collision. Just own up, it's safer for all concerned. I'm far more interested in getting you where you want to go safely than punishing you. I'm guessing CASA only takes the full negative attitude to repeat offenders.
XXX, next time make a phone call first or indicate on your flight plan what the story is. Also tell the controller on first contact.
Blender, nothing gives me the squirts more than "flying down the line" - I can't tell you're going to turn instead of penetrating. Give yourself a bit of leeway & keep everyone happy 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in the classroom of life
Age: 55
Posts: 6,864
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
LP
I think Plankie is suggesting with a correct map and GPS cursor you can and should therefore fly in certainty around steps and not on them. I am sure that was his intent.
As for the Tablet..... yep I use one too, and I have the VTC's and as pointed out its more reliable around Brisbane than the Jepp database, but I do not use it for airspace avoidance, thats not the way to do things. A $20K TSO146 GPS and I can noot trust the database
...... but the good Jepp folk are looking into it.
Makes me think IFR is the way to go.....even for a short flight!
I think Plankie is suggesting with a correct map and GPS cursor you can and should therefore fly in certainty around steps and not on them. I am sure that was his intent.
As for the Tablet..... yep I use one too, and I have the VTC's and as pointed out its more reliable around Brisbane than the Jepp database, but I do not use it for airspace avoidance, thats not the way to do things. A $20K TSO146 GPS and I can noot trust the database
...... but the good Jepp folk are looking into it. Makes me think IFR is the way to go.....even for a short flight!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If your planned route takes you near CTA, or if you are unfamiliar and not entirely sure - just give the relevant freq a call and let them know you are there.
A couple of locals around here regularly call up (no FPL) just say where they are, where they are going and what level. We can then assign a code or even just use "squawk ident" to identify them and either give them a clearance or reassure them that their planned track/alt will keep them clear of CTA and call again if they need higher or diversions left/right of track. Takes a minute of your time and helps with our air picture (traffic OCTA for acft leaving etc)
We're here to provide a service. If clearance through CTA is not available, there has to be a bloody good reason for it, we're not allowed to just pick and choose who gets in and who doesn't it. Like I said at the start of this thread - we are all on the same team - you need to get somewhere - I want to ensure you and everyone else in the sky gets there safely and as expeditiously as possible.
There is no need to "run and hide". Jokes aside, never turn your transponder off, it's insane to think you would rather risk conflicting with someone than get a letter from CASA!
A couple of locals around here regularly call up (no FPL) just say where they are, where they are going and what level. We can then assign a code or even just use "squawk ident" to identify them and either give them a clearance or reassure them that their planned track/alt will keep them clear of CTA and call again if they need higher or diversions left/right of track. Takes a minute of your time and helps with our air picture (traffic OCTA for acft leaving etc)
We're here to provide a service. If clearance through CTA is not available, there has to be a bloody good reason for it, we're not allowed to just pick and choose who gets in and who doesn't it. Like I said at the start of this thread - we are all on the same team - you need to get somewhere - I want to ensure you and everyone else in the sky gets there safely and as expeditiously as possible.
There is no need to "run and hide". Jokes aside, never turn your transponder off, it's insane to think you would rather risk conflicting with someone than get a letter from CASA!
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in the classroom of life
Age: 55
Posts: 6,864
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
If your planned route takes you near CTA, or if you are unfamiliar and not entirely sure - just give the relevant freq a call and let them know you are there.
Exactly!
hey was doing engine data logging in someone elses a/c today.....some know whose now
and you blokes were on duty....... on a Saturday Arv.....whats up with that? Love your work overe there at YAMB
Apologies to Plankie - I wasn't directing my comments specifically at him, just those who like to run along the boundaries of active firing areas & such. They clearly know exactly where they are but I don't know that & get distracted making broadcasts to alert them.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in the classroom of life
Age: 55
Posts: 6,864
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Wait till they hear/feel a big blast close by 
They will get the message.........
Wide Bay is a classic for that!
They play with some good sh!t at times!
They will get the message.........
Wide Bay is a classic for that!
They play with some good sh!t at times!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mel-burn
Posts: 4,875
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The plank way is the safe way if you want to be sure. Have a guaranteed current map on your lap and set the cursor if you have one to the big airport, say brisvegas in this instance and use the dme circles on brizzy to confirm distances, you just can't trust the airspace rings even in the $20k units as Jaba knows.
get a tablet PC or other little gadget with the AirNav moving map software and you can see your position on the VTC's
People need to do some preflight preparation, get their heads out of the cockpit and their gadgets, and not be lazy so-in-so's !
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in the classroom of life
Age: 55
Posts: 6,864
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Dont quite agree Fathom, yes do exactly as you say, but enhance the situation with quick and easy VALIDATION of your ops relative to your proper planning.
J
J
I'm with LP here.
Why fly right along the CTA step?
Shouldn't you add a tolerence for tracking error?
It seems like some pilots treat their GPS's as infallible.
The scary busts are over live firing areas eg Greenbank/Canungra/Pucka.
We [ATC] aren't out to get you just trying to keep everyone safe.
Usually when we see someone closing on CTA we call up to warn you first.
Lots of times no reply from the aircraft but they do a sudden turn away from CTA.
Win/win.
G'day RAAFASA. How's the folks at Morton?
CD
Why fly right along the CTA step?
Shouldn't you add a tolerence for tracking error?
It seems like some pilots treat their GPS's as infallible.
The scary busts are over live firing areas eg Greenbank/Canungra/Pucka.
We [ATC] aren't out to get you just trying to keep everyone safe.
Usually when we see someone closing on CTA we call up to warn you first.
Lots of times no reply from the aircraft but they do a sudden turn away from CTA.
Win/win.
G'day RAAFASA. How's the folks at Morton?
CD
Shouldn't you add a tolerence for tracking error?
Refer AIP ENR 1.1 19.11 Pg38
Shouldn't ever be flying "down the line" because you're already inside the allowable tolerance.
