ATPLs or MECIR??
I still don't get why the hell we here in Aus have to do the CPL theory course when 90% of us go on to do ATPL's subjects, which obviously cover everything the CPL's do and more, (infact I used my ATPL books to study for CPL's, so at least saved a bit there I guess!).
Why can't we go straight into ATPL's? OK, it's a bit of extra content, but I would sooner have had that than having to pay for 7 extra exam sittings.
More money in CASA's coffers no doubt!
In the UK, hardly anyone does CPL subjects, it is an option if you'll never require an ATPL, but if your intention is to get a 'frozen ATPL', (and as with here, most do), you bypass CPL theory and just do ATPL's. (All 14!
)
It really is a load of BS that we have to sit one set of exams to be eligable to sit the next.
Sorry for thread drift, rant over.
UA.
Why can't we go straight into ATPL's? OK, it's a bit of extra content, but I would sooner have had that than having to pay for 7 extra exam sittings.
More money in CASA's coffers no doubt!
In the UK, hardly anyone does CPL subjects, it is an option if you'll never require an ATPL, but if your intention is to get a 'frozen ATPL', (and as with here, most do), you bypass CPL theory and just do ATPL's. (All 14!
)It really is a load of BS that we have to sit one set of exams to be eligable to sit the next.
Sorry for thread drift, rant over.
UA.
ATPL vs MECIR
U/A
"In the UK, hardly anyone does CPL subjects, it is an option if you'll never require an ATPL, but if your intention is to get a 'frozen ATPL', (and as with here, most do), you bypass CPL theory and just do ATPL's. (All 14! )"
What's the difference with doing 7 CPL + 7 ATPL versus 14 ATPL?
I have never looked into it (UK flying cold weather and warm beer ugh).
Cheers
"In the UK, hardly anyone does CPL subjects, it is an option if you'll never require an ATPL, but if your intention is to get a 'frozen ATPL', (and as with here, most do), you bypass CPL theory and just do ATPL's. (All 14! )"
What's the difference with doing 7 CPL + 7 ATPL versus 14 ATPL?
I have never looked into it (UK flying cold weather and warm beer ugh).
Cheers
FFG, JAR ATPLs are just broken down a bit more, (but possibly go into a little further depth).
But the point is, if you want an ATPL you do the ATPL exams. Want a CPL you do the CPL exams.
We dont get the choice and the commonality between the two syllabus' makes me wonder why we can't just choose at the start to do the ATPL's, (thus covering all CPL content), and save having to sit (and pay for) an extra 7 exams...
Thread hijack over...sorry!
But the point is, if you want an ATPL you do the ATPL exams. Want a CPL you do the CPL exams.
We dont get the choice and the commonality between the two syllabus' makes me wonder why we can't just choose at the start to do the ATPL's, (thus covering all CPL content), and save having to sit (and pay for) an extra 7 exams...
Thread hijack over...sorry!
ATPL exams cover areas that are applicable to >5700 ops.
CPL exams are more aimed at <5700 ops.
Its all well and good to know how to load a 727, or how the brayton cycle works in a turbine engine etc but if you are flying pistons a thorough understanding through the CPL course component is more applicable.
Perhaps HF can be a joint exam, IREX covering ATPL airlaw and Met could be a joint exam although I doubt you need sig wx charts and Grid charts in a 152!
back to dreaming, you all know how resistant to change this industry can be!
CPL exams are more aimed at <5700 ops.
Its all well and good to know how to load a 727, or how the brayton cycle works in a turbine engine etc but if you are flying pistons a thorough understanding through the CPL course component is more applicable.
Perhaps HF can be a joint exam, IREX covering ATPL airlaw and Met could be a joint exam although I doubt you need sig wx charts and Grid charts in a 152!
back to dreaming, you all know how resistant to change this industry can be!
imo... do your ATPLs
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Getting those ATPLs out of way now before you leave town can save you alot of hassle in the future. I've got mates with plenty of experience but missed out on opportunities because they didn't finish those pesky ATPLs.
Completing the dreaded IREX would be good idea also.
Completing the dreaded IREX would be good idea also.
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I was putting things into simple terms for a newbie to the industry. For everyone else who has misunderstood (due to my poor wording) I apologise. I wasn't drawing similarities between instructing and Multi crew.
Realistically both paths will take much the same length of time to an airline. The problem with going charter now is that it is very hard to find any entry level job and I’ve seen a lot of my old students struggle for some time just to scrape enough “big” single time to get a 206 job. The ones who went the instructing path are working now.
There are other factors here which need to be considered too, different airlines look for different things and their recruitment is based on different trains of thought. Contradictory to taking the instructing only path, experience on both sides is worth while but it is easier to start in instructing than vice versa.
Looking at it from starting on the instructing path you can build your hours from the comfort of the CBD in very much the same time, it all depends on the breaks you get and how hard you work. I went from first employment to "ATPL experience" in less than 2 years, which included 800multi CMD and a few hundred Multi crew in above 5700kgs. Granted I got into charter ASAP but I couldn’t have got such a great job without building my hours instructing.
GFS (oxford) is a prime example of what I'm talking about with guys moving through from instructing to airlines fast. Yes I realise its a QANTAS training facility however I know a lot of GFS guys who went strait from instructing to good major city based charter then into jets (not QANTAS).
I'm also thinking that if all he wants to do is airline then he mite want to get used to the right seat and watching someone/thing fly the plane for him (only teasing).
On the lifestyle points; in my experience while it was a much poorer life I still had a life. It's not until now that I can say I've got my life back. Remember that CAO 48 gets thrown out the window with the larger charter companies/airlines and now introduce FAID
Having said all that I cant argue with the point, DO NOT INSTRUCT IF YOU DONT LIKE IT. You will destroy people paying good money to learn. You do have to want to teach to be an instructor.
Realistically both paths will take much the same length of time to an airline. The problem with going charter now is that it is very hard to find any entry level job and I’ve seen a lot of my old students struggle for some time just to scrape enough “big” single time to get a 206 job. The ones who went the instructing path are working now.
There are other factors here which need to be considered too, different airlines look for different things and their recruitment is based on different trains of thought. Contradictory to taking the instructing only path, experience on both sides is worth while but it is easier to start in instructing than vice versa.
Looking at it from starting on the instructing path you can build your hours from the comfort of the CBD in very much the same time, it all depends on the breaks you get and how hard you work. I went from first employment to "ATPL experience" in less than 2 years, which included 800multi CMD and a few hundred Multi crew in above 5700kgs. Granted I got into charter ASAP but I couldn’t have got such a great job without building my hours instructing.
GFS (oxford) is a prime example of what I'm talking about with guys moving through from instructing to airlines fast. Yes I realise its a QANTAS training facility however I know a lot of GFS guys who went strait from instructing to good major city based charter then into jets (not QANTAS).
I'm also thinking that if all he wants to do is airline then he mite want to get used to the right seat and watching someone/thing fly the plane for him (only teasing).
On the lifestyle points; in my experience while it was a much poorer life I still had a life. It's not until now that I can say I've got my life back. Remember that CAO 48 gets thrown out the window with the larger charter companies/airlines and now introduce FAID
Having said all that I cant argue with the point, DO NOT INSTRUCT IF YOU DONT LIKE IT. You will destroy people paying good money to learn. You do have to want to teach to be an instructor.
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Amins?
Vote for ATPL's and NVFR / Multi.
While things are slow this is your best chance of employability. It will get you the ticks in the boxes for down the track and also allow you to maybe (if you sweep enough hangar space) your first job up north.
Admins, maybe a voting poll would be useful in this thread?
While things are slow this is your best chance of employability. It will get you the ticks in the boxes for down the track and also allow you to maybe (if you sweep enough hangar space) your first job up north.
Admins, maybe a voting poll would be useful in this thread?
