CASA + ASA = Axis of Evil
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CASA + ASA = Axis of Evil
Just what is ASA obligations to CASA and the aviation industry when it comes to delivering the services their currently incapable of?
perfect example was the almost complete failure of the system at YSBK today.
Restricted VFR all day, MAX 1 aircraft in the circuit at any time, resulting in 4 hour delay, yep 4 FCUKIN hours for CCTS. up to 3 aircraft at a time delayed at inbound points at 2RN and prospect.
constant radio chatter resulting in serious errors from both aircraft and controllers, aircraft calling ready at holding points given landing clearances, aircraft responding to requests intended for other aircraft, almost a quarter of all calls made over other calls. a total and complete cluster fcuck.
in 15 yrs flying from YSBK, its the first time i have seriously considered calling off all flying simply because it was to dangerous to fly with even advanced students in such conditions.
a Fcuking Disgrace! just what are we paying out airways charges for??
end rant.
perfect example was the almost complete failure of the system at YSBK today.
Restricted VFR all day, MAX 1 aircraft in the circuit at any time, resulting in 4 hour delay, yep 4 FCUKIN hours for CCTS. up to 3 aircraft at a time delayed at inbound points at 2RN and prospect.
constant radio chatter resulting in serious errors from both aircraft and controllers, aircraft calling ready at holding points given landing clearances, aircraft responding to requests intended for other aircraft, almost a quarter of all calls made over other calls. a total and complete cluster fcuck.
in 15 yrs flying from YSBK, its the first time i have seriously considered calling off all flying simply because it was to dangerous to fly with even advanced students in such conditions.
a Fcuking Disgrace! just what are we paying out airways charges for??
end rant.
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Write to the CASA guy, McCormick, who is responsible for this mess, and tell him. 
And the office of airspace regulation.
And CC Anthony Albanese and Maxine McKew and some opposition transport people.
Make sure you emphasise the reduction in SAFETY and increase in congestion at the IRPs and on the radio.
Then tell them how much it is going to cost your company when you can[t access infrastructure that you own as a citizen, and that you pay for in landing charges.
Don't blame ATC, this isn't their doing. Good luck!
And the office of airspace regulation.
And CC Anthony Albanese and Maxine McKew and some opposition transport people.
Make sure you emphasise the reduction in SAFETY and increase in congestion at the IRPs and on the radio.
Then tell them how much it is going to cost your company when you can[t access infrastructure that you own as a citizen, and that you pay for in landing charges.
Don't blame ATC, this isn't their doing. Good luck!
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after thinking about today on the drive home, where would you stand with a class action lawsuit? could you get the bigger players on board with regard to TIBA airspace they have to deal with? and paying for!
considering the massive increase in workload and being pushed to braking point, the ATC guys, and girls at YSBK still manage to be as professional as they could be, after some days i feel like going up to the tower and buying them all a beer or 2. especially today!
considering the massive increase in workload and being pushed to braking point, the ATC guys, and girls at YSBK still manage to be as professional as they could be, after some days i feel like going up to the tower and buying them all a beer or 2. especially today!
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There is "feedback sought" but only a week left.
Release of Ambidji Report into General Aviation Aerodrome Procedures (GAAP) - feedback sought
The Office of Airspace Regulation (OAR) today released the final report into the Utility of General Aviation Aerodrome Procedures (GAAP) to Australian-administered Airspace. CASA commissioned the Ambidji Group, in conjunction with Lloyd's Register, to conduct a review of airspace management in relation to GAAP as used at Archerfield, Bankstown, Camden, Jandakot, Moorabbin and Parafield aerodromes. The full report is available to download. http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_asset...ull_june09.pdf
Feedback on the OAR GAAP Utility Review is sought from all stakeholders and interested parties. Please send all comments to [email protected] by the close of business 1 September 2009.
OK so it won't let me paste an email address in there. It is info_oarATcasa.gov.au
Though invalid hash sounds about right.
I'm told the Administrative Appeals Tribunal may be the avenue to go down.
From their website:
The Administrative Appeals Tribunal (AAT) provides independent review of a wide range of administrative decisions made by the Australian government and some non-government bodies.
The AAT aims to provide fair, impartial, high quality and prompt review with as little formality and technicality as possible.
Release of Ambidji Report into General Aviation Aerodrome Procedures (GAAP) - feedback sought
The Office of Airspace Regulation (OAR) today released the final report into the Utility of General Aviation Aerodrome Procedures (GAAP) to Australian-administered Airspace. CASA commissioned the Ambidji Group, in conjunction with Lloyd's Register, to conduct a review of airspace management in relation to GAAP as used at Archerfield, Bankstown, Camden, Jandakot, Moorabbin and Parafield aerodromes. The full report is available to download. http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_asset...ull_june09.pdf
Feedback on the OAR GAAP Utility Review is sought from all stakeholders and interested parties. Please send all comments to [email protected] by the close of business 1 September 2009.
OK so it won't let me paste an email address in there. It is info_oarATcasa.gov.au
Though invalid hash sounds about right.
I'm told the Administrative Appeals Tribunal may be the avenue to go down.
From their website:
The Administrative Appeals Tribunal (AAT) provides independent review of a wide range of administrative decisions made by the Australian government and some non-government bodies.
The AAT aims to provide fair, impartial, high quality and prompt review with as little formality and technicality as possible.
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It really is pretty bad - and probably more dangerous at the reporting points than it was before they fixed it. The radio congestion is just a nightmare. In risk management terms they'd be better to swallow their pride and go back to what was there before they messed around and then try to work out a real solution.
I agree on the controllers - absolute gentlemen (and ladies) As helpfull as the silly rules allow and keep their cool in situations where most of us might not.
I agree on the controllers - absolute gentlemen (and ladies) As helpfull as the silly rules allow and keep their cool in situations where most of us might not.
Or spelunking in a live volcano.
The NASdebaters will only say a US ClassD TWR guy can handle all comers from any direction.....they ARE all supermen and use giant condoms and have hundreds of girlfriends and make lots of money and star in movies...!....It's TRUE
The NASdebaters will only say a US ClassD TWR guy can handle all comers from any direction.....they ARE all supermen and use giant condoms and have hundreds of girlfriends and make lots of money and star in movies...!....It's TRUE
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im not actually referring to ATC as part of the axis of evil, its ASA, for not providing decent enough terms and conditions that would keep a lot of talented controllers in OZ, where they are desperately needed. i feel the ATC guys on the mikes are just as much the victims of CASA and ASA management fcuk ups as we pilots are.
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Must concur with the issue being raised, today was a shocker for all but like others have said, the controllers are the last people you want to be pointing your finger at. All this talk about controllers in training has been around for quite some time; when are we actually going to see an increase in capacity or is it just false hope?
The tether is wearing thing, something must be done!
The tether is wearing thing, something must be done!
Isn't there some mechanism to report this? You can make a submission to the report...but wouldn't it be more noticed if there was a stack of incident reports in at the ATSB as well?
Is a REPCON of sufficient level to report such occurances of limited access?
Is a REPCON of sufficient level to report such occurances of limited access?
Last edited by OZBUSDRIVER; 23rd Aug 2009 at 12:55.
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RVFR was nothing to do with the weather.
Same situation on friday afternoon when i came in, ATIS was calling restricted VFR, Cloud was FEW035, VIS 10KM+
This is an absolute nightmare....Accident waiting to happen.
Fill in a report to ATSB, it can't make things any worse than they currently are.
Same situation on friday afternoon when i came in, ATIS was calling restricted VFR, Cloud was FEW035, VIS 10KM+
This is an absolute nightmare....Accident waiting to happen.
Fill in a report to ATSB, it can't make things any worse than they currently are.
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RVFR was nothing to do with the weather.
On friday, yesterday (sunday) and also today there were NOTAMs issued for reduced ATS at BK. AIP states that RVFR is for weather related restrictions, but if the tower is short staffed (or staff unavailable as the NOTAM reads) they obviously cant operate unrestricted VFR operations.
Last time I checked, BK staffs Camden tower each weekend. It will be interesting to see how/if the RVFR due staffing situation improves when CN is set to open HJ 7 days a week.
Great foresight from those at the top.
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Unfortunately there is unlikely to be an increase in controller numbers any time soon. As someone mentioned above, its an incredibly long training process to get someone proficient. Whilst AsA seems to be recruiting the numbers, its doesn't look like they've reviewed their training system, and from what I've seen, people tend to get through in spite of it, not because of it.
That doesn't mean that there aren't individuals in the organisation with the right intent trying to get these people through, just that the OJT system (and I can't speak specifically for BK) seems to lack an evaluate - feedback - review loop to improve it. Which ultimately means that the training result is neither efficient nor the highest quality it could be.
Does that make the situation any better for you all flying locally, no; but no-one outside the industry seems to notice or care what is happening, so we are unlikely to see any changes any time soon.
That doesn't mean that there aren't individuals in the organisation with the right intent trying to get these people through, just that the OJT system (and I can't speak specifically for BK) seems to lack an evaluate - feedback - review loop to improve it. Which ultimately means that the training result is neither efficient nor the highest quality it could be.
Does that make the situation any better for you all flying locally, no; but no-one outside the industry seems to notice or care what is happening, so we are unlikely to see any changes any time soon.
Gaaack... Yer all a bunch of wooses...
I, I, have the solution to the 'problem' of congestion at the inbound reporting points to YSBK.
It's simple., just establish a UNICOM at the reporting points with a couple of blokes with VHF tranceivers in utes at 2RN and Prospect, get the VFR traffic to report on an unused frequency (this'll keep Mr Smith happy), then get the guys to stack the inbound traffic to YSBK into vertical holding patterns., gosh, you've got all of the airspace between 1500' and 2500' to play with, so we'd fit at least 5 aircraft into that.
The guys then coordinate with the tower to let the bottommost aircraft in the stack go inbound. It'll be a fantastic character-building experience for the students. Win Win ! and it'll comply with CASAs 'Fact 3' in their recent 'GAAP changes' booklet where they say 'If you need to hold, or reposition the aircraft to the GAAP approach point, do so in a manner that provides lateral and vertical seperation from other aircraft ...'
Ok, it won't solve Ultralights gripe about long delays for circuits within the GAAP zone, and it might complicate IFR arrivals but........................
I, I, have the solution to the 'problem' of congestion at the inbound reporting points to YSBK.
It's simple., just establish a UNICOM at the reporting points with a couple of blokes with VHF tranceivers in utes at 2RN and Prospect, get the VFR traffic to report on an unused frequency (this'll keep Mr Smith happy), then get the guys to stack the inbound traffic to YSBK into vertical holding patterns., gosh, you've got all of the airspace between 1500' and 2500' to play with, so we'd fit at least 5 aircraft into that.
The guys then coordinate with the tower to let the bottommost aircraft in the stack go inbound. It'll be a fantastic character-building experience for the students. Win Win ! and it'll comply with CASAs 'Fact 3' in their recent 'GAAP changes' booklet where they say 'If you need to hold, or reposition the aircraft to the GAAP approach point, do so in a manner that provides lateral and vertical seperation from other aircraft ...'
Ok, it won't solve Ultralights gripe about long delays for circuits within the GAAP zone, and it might complicate IFR arrivals but........................
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I'd hate to be the CASA/AsA person with his/her signature on the bottom line for implementation. There'll be lots of sleepless nights praying for no accidents while this mess gets sorted out.
Last edited by Lodown; 24th Aug 2009 at 16:34.
But is it anything to do with the new GAAP procedures? Or is it simply a lack of staff? Covert industrial action no doubt 
If you know it's RVFR & chaos is likely why do you put yourself at risk? You wouldn't with weather so why is this any different? I know the causes are different but risk is risk. Easy for me to say in my nice comfy chair but sometimes you gotta say "no".
If you know it's RVFR & chaos is likely why do you put yourself at risk? You wouldn't with weather so why is this any different? I know the causes are different but risk is risk. Easy for me to say in my nice comfy chair but sometimes you gotta say "no".
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Hang on le Pingouin! You're not just talking about recreational flying. This is someone's livelihood. What are they supposed to do? Are flying schools supposed to cancel students because they won't get to fly? Are the charter operators supposed to tell passengers that they need to come out to the airport before 7 am or they won't get off the ground? If CASA implemented a rule that suddenly removed half your wage and left you in doubt about the security of the remainder, how would you react?
New GAAP procedures, or lack of staff...who cares? The bottom line is that companies will fold if this policy continues for any length of time. This is a myopic injection of a dogma and not the thoughtful implementation of an appropriate strategy.
New GAAP procedures, or lack of staff...who cares? The bottom line is that companies will fold if this policy continues for any length of time. This is a myopic injection of a dogma and not the thoughtful implementation of an appropriate strategy.