The " I support ADSB" thread.
F.A. You obviously don't like anything that will produce an 'alerted see and avoid' environment.
My MkI eyeballs are not capable of seeing a mozzies' proboscis at 1nm range (unlike yours), so I'm not proud to accept any assistance that'll help me... I don't care from what source that assistance comes from, it can be ADSB-IN or an ATCO or a tower or a CAGRO or radio calls., I don't care.. What I do care about, is being alerted when someone is in my near neighbourhood and ADSB-IN is a very nice way of doing that, but it will need at least the same level of fitment ala mode-C/S transponders.
My MkI eyeballs are not capable of seeing a mozzies' proboscis at 1nm range (unlike yours), so I'm not proud to accept any assistance that'll help me... I don't care from what source that assistance comes from, it can be ADSB-IN or an ATCO or a tower or a CAGRO or radio calls., I don't care.. What I do care about, is being alerted when someone is in my near neighbourhood and ADSB-IN is a very nice way of doing that, but it will need at least the same level of fitment ala mode-C/S transponders.
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Joker 10
Other equipped aircraft (including IN and/or ACAS) will be able to see you (traffic alerted), know specifically who you are (aircraft address) so they can call you by your rego/callsign, and if ADS-B enabled ACAS equipped, they will have accurate azimuth and trajectory information making ACAS calculated resolutions that much better. All of that completely independent of ATS surveillance!
Frankcoit
Is not what Mr McCormick said. He said:-
Not that radio has no safety benefit! 
The last sentence makes that quite clear:-
You do understand the difference between what he said, and what you want to suggest he said - don't you? 
All of that is separate from and implies no negative realtionship regarding the safety enhansements available through ADS-B OUT, onboard ADS-B IN, and/or, inside or outside ATS surveillance veils
no matter how much you would like it to sound so! 
My bolding, underlining and in quote emoticons
So if I an VFR at the edge of the Strezleki Desert, no note, no plan what benefit will ADSB out provide ??
Frankcoit
On another twist to the VFR "MK1 eyeball" being the first and last line of defence in the circuit, I note confirmation via another source
via another source
He believes mandating radio procedures as had been proposed would not improve safety.
The last sentence makes that quite clear:-
He said, however, if safety became compromised he would have no hesitation in mandating procedures
All of that is separate from and implies no negative realtionship regarding the safety enhansements available through ADS-B OUT, onboard ADS-B IN, and/or, inside or outside ATS surveillance veils
no matter how much you would like it to sound so! My bolding, underlining and in quote emoticons
Last edited by The Chaser; 16th Jul 2009 at 12:42. Reason: Typo
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Other equipped aircraft (including IN and/or ACAS) will be able to see you (traffic alerted), know specifically who you are (aircraft address) so they can call you by your rego/callsign, and if ADS-B enabled ACAS equipped, they will have accurate azimuth and trajectory information making ACAS calculated resolutions that much better. All of that completely independent of ATS surveillance!
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It's also interesting walking into the local flying club or the aviation supplies store and seeing a computer screen showing all the aircraft in the vicinity and by clicking on any of them, showing full description including pictures!
Not bloody movin' over there if they're gunna watch my every move (wonder if the government has a camera in the cockpit to see if I'm pickin' my ar$e and tax me for it?)They're coming to take me away uh-huh, uh-huh
Oh dear, the cargo culture continues...never ending GPS 'signals' to feed our ADS-B system, ...and fatten our wallets......
Can somebody show me the signed guarantee that the GPS constellation, that Oz does not own, will continue to give free and uninterrupted for ever more ?.....
...then there's the little terrorist 'miss-use' problem.......
Can somebody show me the signed guarantee that the GPS constellation, that Oz does not own, will continue to give free and uninterrupted for ever more ?.....
...then there's the little terrorist 'miss-use' problem.......
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Oh dear, the 'we'll all be ruinned said Hanrahan' culture continues, never ending GPS 'signals' that continue to feed our existing GNSS navigation systems across most transport sectors, with 3 additional GNSS constellations in the making as we speak, all guaranteed to be free (by worldwide government decree) to end users
Somebody has already shown us the signed guarantee that the US GNSS constellation, that Oz does not own, will continue to give free and uninterrupted for ever more ! and that in the event of a significant military need, signal jamming in the theatre area is the only interruption that could be considered, and only after HoGD and the Oval sign off
And there's the tiresome regurgitation of the little terrorist 'miss-use' red herring. Were GNSS lost, the loss of Navigable ability (except for the back-up ground based aids), and the retention of PRIM and SSR radar (150nm radius around the head) at capital cities would mean, at worst, a partial loss of regional surveillance to ATS, which will be known immediately (in real time) to both pilots and, where applicable, the affected ATS. The degraded mode would in fact be, the ATS system we have today!
Somebody has already shown us the signed guarantee that the US GNSS constellation, that Oz does not own, will continue to give free and uninterrupted for ever more ! and that in the event of a significant military need, signal jamming in the theatre area is the only interruption that could be considered, and only after HoGD and the Oval sign off
And there's the tiresome regurgitation of the little terrorist 'miss-use' red herring. Were GNSS lost, the loss of Navigable ability (except for the back-up ground based aids), and the retention of PRIM and SSR radar (150nm radius around the head) at capital cities would mean, at worst, a partial loss of regional surveillance to ATS, which will be known immediately (in real time) to both pilots and, where applicable, the affected ATS. The degraded mode would in fact be, the ATS system we have today!
Oh dear, the 'we'll all be ruinned said Hanrahan' culture continues, never ending GPS 'signals' that continue to feed our existing GNSS navigation systems across most transport sectors, with 3 additional GNSS constellations in the making as we speak, all guaranteed to be free (by worldwide government decree) to end users 
Somebody has already shown us the signed guarantee that the US GNSS constellation, that Oz does not own, will continue to give free and uninterrupted for ever more ! and that in the event of a significant military need, signal jamming in the theatre area is the only interruption that could be considered, and only after HoGD and the Oval sign off
And there's the tiresome regurgitation of the little terrorist 'miss-use' red herring. Were GNSS lost, the loss of Navigable ability (except for the back-up ground based aids), and the retention of PRIM and SSR radar (150nm radius around the head) at capital cities makes, at worst, a partial loss in regional surveillance areas, which will be known immediately (in real time) to both pilots and, where applicable, ATS. The degraded mode would in fact be, the ATS system we have today!
Somebody has already shown us the signed guarantee that the US GNSS constellation, that Oz does not own, will continue to give free and uninterrupted for ever more ! and that in the event of a significant military need, signal jamming in the theatre area is the only interruption that could be considered, and only after HoGD and the Oval sign off
And there's the tiresome regurgitation of the little terrorist 'miss-use' red herring. Were GNSS lost, the loss of Navigable ability (except for the back-up ground based aids), and the retention of PRIM and SSR radar (150nm radius around the head) at capital cities makes, at worst, a partial loss in regional surveillance areas, which will be known immediately (in real time) to both pilots and, where applicable, ATS. The degraded mode would in fact be, the ATS system we have today!
...terrorist 'miss-use' will mean permanent shutdown of the civy GPS system....all this and more has been covered in previous threads....
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The degraded mode would in fact be, the ATS system we have today! 
And why the
do some of the guys not understand this.........Just proves how thick naive and unwilling to think some folk are. Of course if we all thought like that, we would still have morse code for coms, telex machines...... or worse be even further back and have a string and two jam tins! 
Not to mention that these same knockers are using a PC and the internet to post their outdated and irrelevant views.
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...terrorist 'miss-use' will mean permanent shutdown of the civy GPS system.
...all this and more has been covered in previous threads
Last edited by The Chaser; 17th Jul 2009 at 00:26. Reason: Typo
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No they won't
Other equipped aircraft (including IN and/or ACAS) will be able to see you (traffic alerted), know specifically who you are (aircraft address) so they can call you by your rego/callsign, and if ADS-B enabled ACAS equipped, they will have accurate azimuth and trajectory information making ACAS calculated resolutions that much better. All of that completely independent of ATS surveillance!
With out antenna diversity , mode S transponder able to handle diversity and C145/146 GPS and a multi function screen to see enabled returns on as a basic requirement.
Other equipped aircraft (including IN and/or ACAS) will be able to see you (traffic alerted), know specifically who you are (aircraft address) so they can call you by your rego/callsign, and if ADS-B enabled ACAS equipped, they will have accurate azimuth and trajectory information making ACAS calculated resolutions that much better. All of that completely independent of ATS surveillance!
With out antenna diversity , mode S transponder able to handle diversity and C145/146 GPS and a multi function screen to see enabled returns on as a basic requirement.
Last edited by Joker 10; 17th Jul 2009 at 02:41.
"...terrorist 'miss-use' will mean permanent shutdown of the civy GPS system."
A link to a US government site the that says that please. Whilst you are at it, a link to
" ...all this and more has been covered in previous threads "
A link to a US government site the that says that please. Whilst you are at it, a link to
" ...all this and more has been covered in previous threads "
Then I'll dig out the formal agreement (with link) that disproves your claim. Thankyou
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En-Rooter;
Re #94, why did you ask me why I asked a question that I didn't ask? Perhaps you meant to ask why OZBUSDRIVER asked the question that he already had the answer to?
Or are you just dumb?
Re #94, why did you ask me why I asked a question that I didn't ask? Perhaps you meant to ask why OZBUSDRIVER asked the question that he already had the answer to?
Or are you just dumb?
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KittyKatKaper;
Don't you mean The Director of Aviation Safety-Australia "obviously" doesn't like anything that will produce an alerted see and avoid environment"?
I simply quoted him, noting, that it appeared his focus was to get people to look out the window in the CTAF while using correct radio proceedure. HIS WORDS NOT MINE.
Is that not the basis of alerted see and avoid?
F.A. You obviously don't like anything that will produce an 'alerted see and avoid' environment.
I simply quoted him, noting, that it appeared his focus was to get people to look out the window in the CTAF while using correct radio proceedure. HIS WORDS NOT MINE.
Is that not the basis of alerted see and avoid?
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As ah said, covered in other threads - do some basic background research The Chaser...or are you just here to waste time ?...
As ah say...time waster.....
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Joker
Yes they will, without antenna diversity (top and bottom aerials), as per the standards, (and as contained within) the required output (watts) caters for this. Mode S is not required as per previous sentence, and as per the standard/s. ADS-B Out GNSS driver needs to be C145a or b (blind or non/IFR source), and 146a or b IFR NAV source, or as approved by the CASA (provided the GNSS output includes the required signal integrity and accuracy fields), which is of course a separate issue from the IN story.
The output data stream from ADS-B IN can be fed in to most all MFD’s (fixed and Plug in), that is not the end of the IN story though. More than one manufacturer is bringing to market ADS-B IN derived autonomous audio traffic alerting (synthetic voice) that will be wired to audio panels (fixed) as part of the installation. Further, existing TCAD and ACAS equipped GA aircraft can have ADS-B IN integrated and display both sets of target traffic, with both audio traffic (scheduled) alerting. The only difference between the two is that ADS-B IN data will be providing a clock reference (azimuth) accuracy above that currently employed.
You know who to contact locally, directly to confirm the above, assuming you really want cold hard facts. Go on, ring them, one such number is +61 (0)3 83190968 (taken from the web), located at YMMB, or; you could print off the freely availabe install manuals most manufacturers provide on the web, note carefully pin allocations, if you need help with the decoding, ask an avionics LAME. In fact, with your phone plan
, I'm sure you could also afford to ask the same questions of the O/S manufacturers directly! Go on, you know you want to, dial now (as many others have) after all, it is only 10.49am in the UK, you could start with the manufacturers already mentioned in this place (numerous times) such as TRIG, VOLKSLOGGER, FUNKWERK, there are others as well, and, be sure to check up on GNSS drivers whilst you are at it!
Bingshi Thank you, predictably, no factual support, nor answers. Playing the man rather than the ball? I’ll be waiting with that factual reference should you decide to include something, anything to support your scribblings!
Frank
What’s your game? I am sure the DoAS is quite sure alerted-see-and-avoid is a must, otherwise he would not have made the jump to Class D vice GAAP, particularly considering that Class D requires Alerting IFR to VFR, and VFR to VFR (Directed Traffic Information) which is of course alerted-see-and-avoid, further the DoAS has not removed radio calls at CTAF, in fact nor has he removed the current CTAF (R) requirements, a less robust form of alerted-see-and-avoid procedure than CTA D! You do see the difference between actual reality, and your interpretation/s as written here?
No they won't With out antenna diversity , mode S transponder able to handle diversity and C145/146 GPS and a multi function screen to see enabled returns on as a basic requirement.
The output data stream from ADS-B IN can be fed in to most all MFD’s (fixed and Plug in), that is not the end of the IN story though. More than one manufacturer is bringing to market ADS-B IN derived autonomous audio traffic alerting (synthetic voice) that will be wired to audio panels (fixed) as part of the installation. Further, existing TCAD and ACAS equipped GA aircraft can have ADS-B IN integrated and display both sets of target traffic, with both audio traffic (scheduled) alerting. The only difference between the two is that ADS-B IN data will be providing a clock reference (azimuth) accuracy above that currently employed.
You know who to contact locally, directly to confirm the above, assuming you really want cold hard facts. Go on, ring them, one such number is +61 (0)3 83190968 (taken from the web), located at YMMB, or; you could print off the freely availabe install manuals most manufacturers provide on the web, note carefully pin allocations, if you need help with the decoding, ask an avionics LAME. In fact, with your phone plan
, I'm sure you could also afford to ask the same questions of the O/S manufacturers directly! Go on, you know you want to, dial now (as many others have) after all, it is only 10.49am in the UK, you could start with the manufacturers already mentioned in this place (numerous times) such as TRIG, VOLKSLOGGER, FUNKWERK, there are others as well, and, be sure to check up on GNSS drivers whilst you are at it!Bingshi Thank you, predictably, no factual support, nor answers. Playing the man rather than the ball? I’ll be waiting with that factual reference should you decide to include something, anything to support your scribblings!
Frank
Don't you mean The Director of Aviation Safety-Australia "obviously" doesn't like anything that will produce an alerted see and avoid environment"?
Last edited by The Chaser; 17th Jul 2009 at 10:59.
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Mr Chaser, thankyou
Mr Joker, well?
Mr Frank, well?
Mr Binghi, well?
............................................................ ................?
Mr Joker, well?
Mr Frank, well?
Mr Binghi, well?
............................................................ ................?
Last edited by En-Rooter; 17th Jul 2009 at 13:48.
Joker10, this one should do the job for you....available as of July 4th, 2009
SELEX 1090ES LARX
and for larger aircraft-
SELEX 1090ES RX(they both do "Diversity")
Binghi???
Francis, it is a lot easier just looking at the facts and stop trying to twist them to suit your own arguments. Either you are all for ADS-B fitment or just shut up and if you do see a hard problem against fitment then say something!
You know where we are different, I can argue both sides of this argument as easily as one.....because I have looked very hard at both sides of this argument! Believe it, there are more pros than cons.
Think what you like.
SELEX 1090ES LARX
and for larger aircraft-
SELEX 1090ES RX(they both do "Diversity")
Binghi???
Francis, it is a lot easier just looking at the facts and stop trying to twist them to suit your own arguments. Either you are all for ADS-B fitment or just shut up and if you do see a hard problem against fitment then say something!
You know where we are different, I can argue both sides of this argument as easily as one.....because I have looked very hard at both sides of this argument! Believe it, there are more pros than cons.
Think what you like.
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Well, I have stated my position at post #1 and you have chosen not to accept my offer of support for the interim until the radar becomes redundant. Every other clown from the other sandpit has had his say and remains the same boring repetitious ridicule and thread drifting opposition to anything but blind obedience to your agenda.
So, I guess we have said it all.
See Ya.
So, I guess we have said it all.
See Ya.