737-800 service ceiling?

[porch monkey]

Hey Goblin, you do realise that the 737 can get to Fl380-400 even if every seat is occupied, don't you? The fuel load essentially dictates in the end. 700's will easily have 390/400 as the optimum level on sectors as long as 2 hrs, with every seat occupied. Levels have very little to do with "bleeding money" as you seem to believe.

[Capt Fathom]

GPS Prohibited at all times

Hmmmm.....

The Qantas Website does specifically mention GPS's

Electronic Equipment

All electronic devices, including PDAs, laptop computers, handheld games and toys must be switched off during take-off and landing.

Portable electronic equipment such as laptop computers (including WiFi and Bluetooth enabled devices), PDAs (without mobile phones),
personal music (for example, iPods) and electronic game devices may be used when the aircraft seat belt sign is extinguished after take-off and until the top of descent.

Radio transmission using personal communication devices (including walkie-talkies, two-way pagers, or global positioning systems)
is prohibited at all stages of flight, as it may interfere with the aircraft's communication and navigation systems.

[PPRuNe Towers]

Galapagos Effect

Ummm, this, oh gosh, life at 410 stuff folks.

Has it not percolated through that the 2 biggest NG operators in the world with fleets of over 500 aircraft between them have instituted SOP's and operational changes to try and stop problems, err, staying at those altitudes.

If a major operator insists on recalculating all permissible flight levels based on 1.5vs because of well documented problems staying at altitude it's our hope that you're having a good look at what's happening elsewhere. Even a timely reminder of what's available on the N1 page if you find yourself high, slow and the speed won't build back up could really help you one day.

Rob

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Radio transmission using personal communication devices (including walkie-talkies, two-way pagers, or global positioning systems) is prohibited at all stages of flight, as it may interfere with the aircraft's communication and navigation systems.

So as long as the 'Radio Transmission' feature of your GPS (if fitted!) is turned off, its OK to use the 'Nav' feature of the unit!

For the record, A GPS RECEIVER TRANSMITS NOTHING!

If you think otherwise - please post a credible reference that supports that view.

Dr

[grrowler]

I guess the really important issue here is why you would want to have a GPS fired up at all, especially showing essentially the same info as the IFE.

[PyroTek]

I guess the really important issue here is why you would want to have a GPS fired up at all, especially showing essentially the same info as the IFE.

Possibly because half the aircraft that fly do not have IFE?
Maybe to see if your GPS unit will work with a "window of view" as big as an airliner window.
To not have to wait for every data screen to come up to see details of the flight?
Maybe just to make your "max speed" reading on your GPS unit "888km/h" (as is on mine), and get people wondering how the hell I could drive so fast?

Pyro,
Anyway, Thread drift.

[mingalababya]

Originally Posted by grrowler

I guess the really important issue here is why you would want to have a GPS fired up at all, especially showing essentially the same info as the IFE.

What PyroTek said. Surely there's nothing wrong with being enthusiastic and passionate about aviation, is there?

[VH-XXX]

I'm not at the pointy end of the smart stick Doctor, however my 296 altitude is brilliant and always within 50-80 ft usually, taking into account QNH. Also I only use the little aerial off the back of the unit on an extension as the large one causes radio inteference.


Can't believe that people on here must think that GPS's are transmitters, what's going on with these generation-y pilots!

[porch monkey]

Ease up a bit Rob, we've had our experience with the so called "close to the limit" stuff. Given that, we still use 1.3, and use it with some intelligence. The problem has not repeated itself, education has been useful. I don't know that "well documented" necessarily is the case either. Just because another airline doesn't want to use 1.3, or wants to institute some other SOP, doesn't mean everyone should. How far down are we going to dumb it? How much discretion do we take away from the captain to fly an aircraft intelligently and efficiently? 1.3 works fine, like everything else about the flight, the conditions you find yourself in need to be monitored. Full stop.

P.S. I don't think this is the kind of discussion the OP was looking for.......

[walaper]

GPS use

I have actually had a couple of pax over the last year or so to present a letter from casa to indicate that they were able to use their gps receiver with only the normal restrictions ie off for T/O, LDG subject to Capts approval which they duly received.

[The Green Goblin]

Which begs the question why would someone want to use a GPS up the back. You're told you are departing at xx and arriving at xx, you're also told what altitude you are flying at most of the time. Sit up the back enjoy the service or lack of, have a snooze and let the fellas or shielas up the front do their job without second guessing them.

A fella up the back with a GPS is almost as bad as when you are flying single engine charter and a PPL arrives with a WAC and headset (usually a bose I might add which makes the old DC look archaic) in their arm in hot anticipation of the flight.

GG

[TWOTBAGS]

To answer FTDK.....

My only question is how on earth you got away with operating GPS inside the aircraft? blah blah blah

What Fathom said...... thems the rules brother either abide by them or expect the consequences.

Oh and

I hope you are never driving anything that I am a pax on

You dont have to worry about that, at about $4M per seat (and there's 10 of them) you could not afford it anyway!

[VH-XXX]

If this has become a p-issing contest TWOTBAGS, my Dad's d-ick is bigger than your dad's d-ick so there.

I bet you have a great time flying around in your $40m aircraft with the flexibility to go where-ever YOU want whenever YOU want

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Radio transmission using personal communication devices (including walkie-talkies, two-way pagers, or global positioning systems) is prohibited at all stages of flight

thems the rules brother either abide by them or expect the consequences

You cannot break that rule unless you create a radio transmission by using your portable GPS as a "personal communication device"!

I am still looking for that feature on my Garmin III Pilot and Garmin 496.

Dr

PS: I wonder how many people turn off Bluetooth and Wifi when using a laptop on an aeroplane?
I suspect ................ NONE!

[Peter Fanelli]

I think it must now be pretty common for 'clowns down the back' to use GPSs, as the trolley dollies dont seem to react as they once did. The first time I had one (with the antenna suctioned cupped to the window) on a Qantas 737 the following conversation ensued:

TD: Excuse me Sir, what is that?
Dr: Its a GPS!
TD: Sir, I don't think its permitted to use that on board an aircraft.
Dr: As far as I know it is, but I will turn it off if you wish. Could you please ask the Captain if its OK to use a GPS.
TD: OK, give me a few minutes.
Returns
TD: Sir, the Capt says it is OK to use a GPS while the aircraft is in the cruise but we require it to be turned off prior to descent, as we do for all portable electronic devices.

TD: Oh...and he said ONLY ONE!

Dr: OK, no worries.

Oh and for what it's worth, GPS units can interfere with other radios. Have experienced it myself. Cessna 310 with a Garmin 100 into Yalata once a month. With the GPS on it was impossible to cancel SAR, usually Perth on 6580 if I recall correctly, but as soon as the GPS was turned off HF worked fine. Just because an electronic device does not send a transmission to the antenna does not mean it's not capable of causing interference with other radios.

[gav_20022002]

This is comical, the guy asked a fair dinkum question. Were they really at FL420 or is there another reason for the alt indicated on the IFE and GPS, yet that Q&A gets lost after about 5 replies and now its a pure bitching contest, Go and start a new thread somewhere else and bitch about who has the bigger d!ck and use of GPS down in the cabin.

i opened this thread thinking someone might have actualy come up with a sensible answer instead its a sh!t fight!! Thanks for wasting 5 mins of my life for reading it. but since its so important to pilots and maybe makes them feel insecure that some guy down the back can get the same flight info as them they r worried. who cares!!!!! for all anyone knows he may have asked the flight crew upon boarding and they said go for it. why crucifie him for having a interest in aviation and comparing his data to the IFE??

but as for an answer to this, i did a flight from ML-BN, IFE said FL402, once we landed it tured out i knew the FO so iasked him what alt we were at and he said we were between FL370 and FL390 and the IFE reading is AMSL not 1013.


see ya on the flip side

[Ultralights]

i still dont know what the service ceiling of a 738 is yet!!!

You cannot break that rule unless you create a radio transmission by using your portable GPS as a "personal communication device"!

Iphone??? has GPS, WIFI, Bluetooth, and GPRS, though it doesnt like travelling much more then 100kts., cant update the map fast enough with the poor phone signal at any altitude really..

[PyroTek]

Iphone??? has GPS, WIFI, Bluetooth, and GPRS, though it doesnt like travelling much more then 100kts., cant update the map fast enough with the poor phone signal at any altitude really..

The iPhone isn't a true GPS though, it merely triangulates from phone towers, that is something that requires transmitting/receiving.
My Nokia N95, however has a true gps chip just under the * key - meaning that I can put it in offline mode, and it will kill wifi, bluetooth, or any other sort of transmission, however leaving the GPS chip alone to receive data.
This could be why QF says "GPS" devices under prohibited, because people don't know the difference between true "listen from satellite" GPS and psuedo "triangulate between phone towers" GPS, the latter of which requiring the initial transmission from the phone.

Pyro

(Time for thread to be split??)

[Boomerang_Butt]

Interesting. The cabin crew manual, at least at QF, states:

....Global Positioning System (GPS) receivers, pocket calculators and electric shavers are unrestricted. These devices may be used at any time.

(my bolding)

I assume within the context of PED rules for takeoff/landing.

To clear up any confusion, as has been stated, if you have an iPhone with GPS, the device is classified according to its highest level of capability- i.e. it is a phone first & foremost. Won't post a direct quote here as we're not meant to reproduce the manual (controlled docs & all that)

I don't know much about it, but I have done CPL met & I was thinking 1013 could explain the high altitude. I wouldn't do it but I understand some people like to know exactly where they are. IFE maps are great for a general idea, but if you want accuracy or waypoints, a GPS will do it. Kind of wish the IFE was GPS-based, it would stop me having to call every lake & mountain I've never seen before 'Mt Diligaf' or 'Lake Farkall'

[ferris]

I doubt you would get a clearance to FL420, anyway. Non-standard non-RVSM level. That's something they suck in trainee controllers with in the sim