RAAF Divisions
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RAAF Divisions
Just wondering,
Do pilots who fly aircraft OTHER than the F/A's and F's (for instance the C17's) have a different entry path to that division in the RAAF?
Ie. When they take in recruits do they put them all through the same program then pick them out into say Cargo/Fighter or is the choice made by the pilot?
Do pilots who fly aircraft OTHER than the F/A's and F's (for instance the C17's) have a different entry path to that division in the RAAF?
Ie. When they take in recruits do they put them all through the same program then pick them out into say Cargo/Fighter or is the choice made by the pilot?
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I can't say for sure, but I believe that all pilots go through the same training on the CT4 and PC9, they put in their preferences for roles i.e fast jet, transport, maritime, and then the Airforce decides where they go depending on ability and demand.
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When I was in there they all went through the same training.The RAAF decides where you go and what you do,not you.They humour you by giving you "choices" of employment and postings,but at the end of the day they will just shove you wherever they want to.
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The path for everyone who joins the RAAF as a pilot is as follows:BFTS (Tamworth) for 6 months on the CT4. Provided you come through that, 2FTS (Pearce) on the PC9 for about 8 months. Within one month of finishing 'wings' you put in your preferences, but the reality is you will be posted based on ability and how you have performed on the course (every dual sortie is assessed on a 0-5 scale, 5 being highest and 0 fail).The top 6 usually go to Hawks. The rest are posted on preference/ability. Eg. You might have just missed out on hawks, but your second preference was C17, so you might go there (if there is a conversion slot available).On the other hand, most graduates don't want to go fly the King Air at ESL, so that goes last on the preference sheet. Inevitably this means that the bottom graduates will end up flying King Airs (which is a very slippery and demanding aircraft apparently).
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RAAF
I am just after some information reguarding pilot positions within the RAAF. I am currently applying and want to know do pilots get moved between flight groups and aircraft types or do you stay on the one type and base location?
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You get moved where they (the RAAF) want you to go. They're paying you, after all!
Now this may mean in practice that you may stay for some time in the same locaity. A good example is an F-18 guy who may spend nearly all his operational flying career at Williamtown (they feel a little unsafe if they go outside TACAN range!). However I wouldn't count on it.
Given the operational tempo these days it is quite common to see C-130 and P-3 crews heading off for their fourth six month deployment. That's what they pay you for!
For a young bloke this should not be a problem, however when wives and little ones turn up, priorities usually change.
Lack of locational stability is one of the big gripes amongst those who leave the service.
Now this may mean in practice that you may stay for some time in the same locaity. A good example is an F-18 guy who may spend nearly all his operational flying career at Williamtown (they feel a little unsafe if they go outside TACAN range!). However I wouldn't count on it.
Given the operational tempo these days it is quite common to see C-130 and P-3 crews heading off for their fourth six month deployment. That's what they pay you for!
For a young bloke this should not be a problem, however when wives and little ones turn up, priorities usually change.
Lack of locational stability is one of the big gripes amongst those who leave the service.
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The Dos,
To answer your question, generally pilots do not move between types or groups. They generally stay with the aircraft they are initially posted to, ie an F/A-18 guy will stay with F/A-18's a Herc guy will stay with Hercs, AP-3C with them etc. You may change groups when going to the ground jobs that you will inevitably do if you stick around long enough, and then you may end up going anywhere. There is some scope to change types and some guys do, but in the main most people now spend their entire career on one type.
The job stability that CSD speaks of is spot on. Other than the bases where the aircraft you go to is based at, outside of flying jobs you can and do go anywhere. Awesome when you are single (well except Tindal
... mind you it is an awesome party place and I did meet my wife there
and no she is not a local!
), not so good when you have kids trying to go to the one school for more than 2 years in a row...
However pretty much everyone is the RAAF nowadays spends a heap of time away from home, well I know I and most pilots (and just about all other jobs as well) I know do. With exercises, training, support to the civil community, meetings(!) and operations expect at least 6 months of the year away.
Good luck!
Cheers
CB
To answer your question, generally pilots do not move between types or groups. They generally stay with the aircraft they are initially posted to, ie an F/A-18 guy will stay with F/A-18's a Herc guy will stay with Hercs, AP-3C with them etc. You may change groups when going to the ground jobs that you will inevitably do if you stick around long enough, and then you may end up going anywhere. There is some scope to change types and some guys do, but in the main most people now spend their entire career on one type.
The job stability that CSD speaks of is spot on. Other than the bases where the aircraft you go to is based at, outside of flying jobs you can and do go anywhere. Awesome when you are single (well except Tindal
... mind you it is an awesome party place and I did meet my wife there and no she is not a local!), not so good when you have kids trying to go to the one school for more than 2 years in a row...However pretty much everyone is the RAAF nowadays spends a heap of time away from home, well I know I and most pilots (and just about all other jobs as well) I know do. With exercises, training, support to the civil community, meetings(!) and operations expect at least 6 months of the year away.
Good luck!
Cheers
CB
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Hi Bomb,
Thanks so much for the reply that helps quite a lot. I am just about to complete assessment day shortly and am trying to build as much information as I can about everything. Many many hours spent on wiki and raaf.com lol. Also with the ROSO I hear everyone talks about ground jobs but would they really take a pilot off flying duties after spending all that money training them in less than 11.5 years? I just couldnt understand how they would be able to make a return on an investment that large in such a short time.
Thanks so much for the reply that helps quite a lot. I am just about to complete assessment day shortly and am trying to build as much information as I can about everything. Many many hours spent on wiki and raaf.com lol. Also with the ROSO I hear everyone talks about ground jobs but would they really take a pilot off flying duties after spending all that money training them in less than 11.5 years? I just couldnt understand how they would be able to make a return on an investment that large in such a short time.
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RAAF ground jobs
the dos
It's naturally an emotive issue for those in the RAAF, since most pilots just want to keep on flying. The bottom line is that the military do not just fly aeroplanes like the airlines do. In order to plan effective military operations, to train the next batch of officers, to provide support in aviation-related areas where it is needed/desirable to understand the end requirement, pilots (and ACOs) are taken off line flying and put into ground jobs. To get to higher ranks, if you want a career, there's generally a need to have broad experience, hence ground jobs.
In flying squadrons, there is what's known as a 'temporal discipline model' now. Essentially, you get a first flying tour of 4 years (meant to get you to B Cat standard at any squadron, but rarely works out that well), then selection for either QFI course and one of the flying training schools or off to a ground job. Either course of action is meant to be two years. Two years is too short for the QFI route so it's generally longer away. Then, generally back to a flying squadron: as an experienced line driver from a ground job, or probably into a training squadron (eg. 285SQN at Air Lift Group, 292 SQN at maritime) for QFIs. After that, it's much hazier as it depends on indiviuals skills, resignation rates etc.
Each group (air lift, maritime, air combat) will have slightly different factors/issues/imperatives and therefore different approaches to how strictly that's followed. Some people get a good deal (often more a case of right place right time rather than planned for a chosen individual with particular skills) and some get a raw deal. The RAAF, and the ADF as a whole, are looking at the whole military system needs, and individual requirements generally get second priority; so you do need to be prepared to deal with whatever comes your way.
It's naturally an emotive issue for those in the RAAF, since most pilots just want to keep on flying. The bottom line is that the military do not just fly aeroplanes like the airlines do. In order to plan effective military operations, to train the next batch of officers, to provide support in aviation-related areas where it is needed/desirable to understand the end requirement, pilots (and ACOs) are taken off line flying and put into ground jobs. To get to higher ranks, if you want a career, there's generally a need to have broad experience, hence ground jobs.
In flying squadrons, there is what's known as a 'temporal discipline model' now. Essentially, you get a first flying tour of 4 years (meant to get you to B Cat standard at any squadron, but rarely works out that well), then selection for either QFI course and one of the flying training schools or off to a ground job. Either course of action is meant to be two years. Two years is too short for the QFI route so it's generally longer away. Then, generally back to a flying squadron: as an experienced line driver from a ground job, or probably into a training squadron (eg. 285SQN at Air Lift Group, 292 SQN at maritime) for QFIs. After that, it's much hazier as it depends on indiviuals skills, resignation rates etc.
Each group (air lift, maritime, air combat) will have slightly different factors/issues/imperatives and therefore different approaches to how strictly that's followed. Some people get a good deal (often more a case of right place right time rather than planned for a chosen individual with particular skills) and some get a raw deal. The RAAF, and the ADF as a whole, are looking at the whole military system needs, and individual requirements generally get second priority; so you do need to be prepared to deal with whatever comes your way.
In flying squadrons, there is what's known as a 'temporal discipline model' now.
I wonder who got promoted for thinking up that name?
ruprecht.
