Comp Air 8 Experimental Skydive Aircraft ???
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Comp Air 8 Experimental Skydive Aircraft ???
What are the regs in OZ for the use of experimental aircraft for skydiving?
This Comp Air 8 might be the turbine answer for under $400K
11 minutes to 13,000ft with 6 jumpers , the walter turbine engines are very reliable eastern European PT6 copy
Airplane, 2001 Aerocomp Comp Air 8 for sale in Santa Maria, California
Skydive Andes | Paracaidismo en Chile | Tandems, Cursos, skydive andes Chile paracaidismo paracaidista skydiving tandem freefly Sudamérica South America Santiago Chiñihue salto adventure parachute fun cursos Cuatro Diablos, Paracaidismo en Chile. Tan see video on the left
Nordic Aviation - Compair 8 - The ultimate jump plane these guys say 10 pax
This Comp Air 8 might be the turbine answer for under $400K
11 minutes to 13,000ft with 6 jumpers , the walter turbine engines are very reliable eastern European PT6 copy
Airplane, 2001 Aerocomp Comp Air 8 for sale in Santa Maria, California
Skydive Andes | Paracaidismo en Chile | Tandems, Cursos, skydive andes Chile paracaidismo paracaidista skydiving tandem freefly Sudamérica South America Santiago Chiñihue salto adventure parachute fun cursos Cuatro Diablos, Paracaidismo en Chile. Tan see video on the left
Nordic Aviation - Compair 8 - The ultimate jump plane these guys say 10 pax
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The door looks a bit small for jumping. The Andes one has a step and a handle but it looks hard to stack up more than 2 in the door and 1 on the strut. Interesting though.
They spec them out too, nice looking example.
They spec them out too, nice looking example.
Last edited by Alistair; 5th May 2009 at 03:21. Reason: Added link to pics
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That Compair 9 on their front page is a mean looking piece of Kit and on floats they look awesome.
What is amazing about them is their sheer size. They are much larger than they first look.
There's a 10 in the completed sections with modified skydive door......
What is amazing about them is their sheer size. They are much larger than they first look.
There's a 10 in the completed sections with modified skydive door......
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Now your talking with that door! Looks like the standard rear door is 2 piece. Here is the same plane from my earlier post but with the door fully open.
But...
In their FAQ
That is for the US, I don't know what CASA would make of it. You might get away with club use but as for lobbing the general public as tandoms, probably not. If they were able to certify the aircraft under part 23 you would be paying a whole lot more for the aircraft than US$400k for them to recoup the US$20 million or so that it would take for it to happen.
But...
In their FAQ
"Would the Comp Air 10XL Turbine be suitable for use as a skydiving jump plane?"
Yes, the Comp Air 10 would make a fantastic "jump plane" for a skydiving club. With a useful load of up to 3000 lbs, roomy cabin, and the outstanding climb performance provided by the 657 eshp Walter M601D, it would make an ideal jump plane.
But...
Current FAA regulations, however, do not permit the use of a US-registered experimental airplane "for hire or compensation" [14CFR 91.319]. It is our understanding that members of private clubs and organizations might be able to build or purchase an experimental airplane for the exclusive use of club members, but US regulations do not permit using an experimental airplane to provide aviation services to the general public. Standard operating limitations (see Section 7) issued for US amateur-built experimental aircraft expressly prohibit use of the airplane for skydiving. Doing so legally would require an exemption or modified operating limitations for each particular aircraft.
Certification?
Aerocomp Inc. receives numerous enquiries about the possibility of using a CA10 for skydiving, and we are interested in any proposals that would provide the funds necessary to produce a 14CFR Part 23 certified version of the airplane. Certification costs have been roughly estimated at US$20 to $30 million. Without Part 23 certification, commercial use of the exciting Comp Air Turbines is not permitted.
Yes, the Comp Air 10 would make a fantastic "jump plane" for a skydiving club. With a useful load of up to 3000 lbs, roomy cabin, and the outstanding climb performance provided by the 657 eshp Walter M601D, it would make an ideal jump plane.
But...
Current FAA regulations, however, do not permit the use of a US-registered experimental airplane "for hire or compensation" [14CFR 91.319]. It is our understanding that members of private clubs and organizations might be able to build or purchase an experimental airplane for the exclusive use of club members, but US regulations do not permit using an experimental airplane to provide aviation services to the general public. Standard operating limitations (see Section 7) issued for US amateur-built experimental aircraft expressly prohibit use of the airplane for skydiving. Doing so legally would require an exemption or modified operating limitations for each particular aircraft.
Certification?
Aerocomp Inc. receives numerous enquiries about the possibility of using a CA10 for skydiving, and we are interested in any proposals that would provide the funds necessary to produce a 14CFR Part 23 certified version of the airplane. Certification costs have been roughly estimated at US$20 to $30 million. Without Part 23 certification, commercial use of the exciting Comp Air Turbines is not permitted.
Last edited by Alistair; 5th May 2009 at 06:04.
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Tandem skydiving is still classed as an instructional introduction to skydiving , although it's totally makes money
it still is a club activity , if people decide to pursue their skydiving then the Tandem "can" count as the first jump in their course .... this is how tandems are allowed under the private system.
If they can get a big door on that Comp Air 10XL pad the floor up to meet the door seal then bingo we are in business big time! $300K and you got a 10 seat jump ship ..... something skydive centers have been dreaming about!
I know a guy who flew the Let's with Walter engines in Africa he said they're great ..... the engine life isn't effected by start cycles just it's usual TBO ...
I don't know if I should get my hopes up but this is AWESOME if it can be used for skydiving ...
it still is a club activity , if people decide to pursue their skydiving then the Tandem "can" count as the first jump in their course .... this is how tandems are allowed under the private system.If they can get a big door on that Comp Air 10XL pad the floor up to meet the door seal then bingo we are in business big time! $300K and you got a 10 seat jump ship ..... something skydive centers have been dreaming about!
I know a guy who flew the Let's with Walter engines in Africa he said they're great ..... the engine life isn't effected by start cycles just it's usual TBO ...
I don't know if I should get my hopes up but this is AWESOME if it can be used for skydiving ...
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For starters, in Australia you can not carry more than 6 persons in an experimental aircraft, unless approved by CASA or an "authorised person" so even if you could, you already have a barrier before you get started.
Also, under experimental regulations in OZ:
Operating Limitations
An experimental aircraft may be used for any of the following operations in support of an operation for which the special certificate of airworthiness was issued:
(a) taking the aircraft to or from a place where maintenance on the aircraft can be done, or has been done;
(b) testing the aircraft after maintenance;
(c) training a person to qualify for an aircraft endorsement on the aircraft; practice in flying the aircraft; carrying out a demonstration or test of the aircraft for sale; delivering the aircraft to a person under a contract of sale;
(g) for an amateur‑built or kit‑built aircraft -- flying training given in the aircraft to its owner.
Also, under experimental regulations in OZ:
Operating Limitations
An experimental aircraft may be used for any of the following operations in support of an operation for which the special certificate of airworthiness was issued:
(a) taking the aircraft to or from a place where maintenance on the aircraft can be done, or has been done;
(b) testing the aircraft after maintenance;
(c) training a person to qualify for an aircraft endorsement on the aircraft; practice in flying the aircraft; carrying out a demonstration or test of the aircraft for sale; delivering the aircraft to a person under a contract of sale;
(g) for an amateur‑built or kit‑built aircraft -- flying training given in the aircraft to its owner.
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I Just called CASA ..... they were like "hmmmm interesting one whats your e-mail we'll get back to you"
Put a roller door on that beast and game on I say .....
6 people ... well you need 7 for a pilot and 3 tandems .... here comes the red tape again!
Put a roller door on that beast and game on I say .....
6 people ... well you need 7 for a pilot and 3 tandems .... here comes the red tape again!
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I get the whole 'tandem is a student' thing but the problem is that the US FAA expressly prohibit the aircraft from use in skydiving (probably to prevent the back door you have mentioned).
It doesn't seem likely that CASA would allow it if it isn't in the US, regardless of the operation being private or not. They would want to protect the public, as the average person on the street would not understand the difference between an experimental reg. aircraft and a VH reg. and the differences in testing for certification.
Recreational flying in experimental reg. aircraft is one thing, making money in a 'private' operation would be something completely different.
I guess you would have to get an approval from CASA before even thinking about throwing cash in the direction of an aircraft like this.
Nice idea though, I'm all for cheap turbine aircraft operating at DZ's.
It doesn't seem likely that CASA would allow it if it isn't in the US, regardless of the operation being private or not. They would want to protect the public, as the average person on the street would not understand the difference between an experimental reg. aircraft and a VH reg. and the differences in testing for certification.
Recreational flying in experimental reg. aircraft is one thing, making money in a 'private' operation would be something completely different.
I guess you would have to get an approval from CASA before even thinking about throwing cash in the direction of an aircraft like this.
Nice idea though, I'm all for cheap turbine aircraft operating at DZ's.
Last edited by Alistair; 5th May 2009 at 09:55.
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If they will give an approval to use the aircraft for skydiving it shouldn't be too much of a leap to get approval to fly it full of people.
After all they will all have a parachute on
After all they will all have a parachute on
)
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The APF should put a proposal to CASA to have these approved for club operations at least ..... A machine that can could get 8 or so people to flight levels under $400K would fill a massive hole in the market .... Pistons to Caravans & Cresco's are a massive financial jump for the smaller operators to take. Gold Jerry
Comp AIR 10XL
Airplane, 2008 Aerocomp Comp Air 10 for sale in Santa Maria, California
COMP AIR 8
- APF gather all the aircraft data
- Proposal to CASA
- Dispo for 8-10 people
- Club Ops
- Turbines are safer! even if they are Eastern Block!
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Airplane, 2008 Aerocomp Comp Air 10 for sale in Santa Maria, California
COMP AIR 8
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Comp Air
Hi all,
There is a Comp Air agent supporting the Australasian region "check their web site" and presently a para club in QLD (with the assistance of Comp Air) are pushing CASA for approval but from sources within and outside CASA, it seems some senior CASA employee's just don't get off their ass because I was told only two days ago heaps of flt & strc test reports for the Comp Air 8/10 have sat on the floor of a CASA FOI's office since Feb 09! Great work guys, fantastic seeing where my tax goes!
get a real job will you!
VH-NO!
There is a Comp Air agent supporting the Australasian region "check their web site" and presently a para club in QLD (with the assistance of Comp Air) are pushing CASA for approval but from sources within and outside CASA, it seems some senior CASA employee's just don't get off their ass because I was told only two days ago heaps of flt & strc test reports for the Comp Air 8/10 have sat on the floor of a CASA FOI's office since Feb 09! Great work guys, fantastic seeing where my tax goes!
get a real job will you!VH-NO!
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Not knocking the previous poster, as much as I would like to think that it will go ahead for them, but I fail to see how even a massive pile of structural reports and engineering information on anyones desk or floor at CASA will do any good to the potential operator. Surely the aircraft either has to be certified or it doesn't? There's no middle ground in this discussion, it's black or white and I would be surprised that someone at CASA would just peruse some engineering info and give it the big tick of approval to operate - I'm a little more skeptical than that. As we've seen, it costs millions to certify an aircraft so it makes you wonder what they are thinking of doing.
Long term, short of some huge investor coming along, the only way I can see certification happening would be if there was military interest in the aircraft and they funded the certification process, like they have been talking about with the Furio in NZ to be used as a trainer.
This is why LSA is so good because the costs are tiny in comparison, but you can't jump 8 people out of an LSA unfortunately.
Long term, short of some huge investor coming along, the only way I can see certification happening would be if there was military interest in the aircraft and they funded the certification process, like they have been talking about with the Furio in NZ to be used as a trainer.
This is why LSA is so good because the costs are tiny in comparison, but you can't jump 8 people out of an LSA unfortunately.
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BAD NEWS JUMP FANS!
Just got an e-mail back from CASA and it's a no go for the Comp Air & skydiving.
Better keep saving for the Caravan or Cresco
Just got an e-mail back from CASA and it's a no go for the Comp Air & skydiving.
Better keep saving for the Caravan or Cresco