Comp Air 8 Experimental Skydive Aircraft ???
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Can you pleas elaborate on the reasoning behind this so others are more informed by your efforts? I would be interested considering the talk earlier of others who have a proposal on the table.
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The Walter turbine is incredible value for money (1/4 to 1/3 the price of an overhauled Pratt or Garrett) and compares in many ways with the PT6A-20
In 2007 Walter was purchased by GE so longer term the prices will probably start creeping up
GE - Aviation: General Electric Company To Acquire Walter Engines a.s.
Walter M601 powered C207 anyone ? That would be a nice STC for someone to do.
In 2007 Walter was purchased by GE so longer term the prices will probably start creeping up
GE - Aviation: General Electric Company To Acquire Walter Engines a.s.
Walter M601 powered C207 anyone ? That would be a nice STC for someone to do.
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Holy Grail
In recent years I've been involved in maintaining aircraft for several different parachute operators on both sides of the ditch. The holy grail I speak of is a "cheap" single engine turbine jump plane. Currently its a requirement to use an aircraft that has a Certificate of Airworthiness in the standard category. In Aus this is then endorsed restricted due to the nature of the operation, not the standard the aircraft or aircraft modification complies with.
The Walter Fletcher is the cheapest option, albeit the Walter Engine has some unique disadvantages and advantages. The engine has a fuel consumption up to 15% greater than a PT6 of equivalent SHP. That's the biggest issue, but the Fletcher installation has at times had problems with fuel components and in the past random turbine/compressor blade failures although only one was in a Parachute aircraft to the best of my knowledge.
The upside of the Walter is apart from the lower purchase price, no HSI. no fuel nozzles, and in my opinion a better propeller and prop operating system. Also the factory support has in the past been great and they have on occasions pro-rata warrantied components up to the TBO of the engine. Be aware the M601D-11NZ has a unique cycle count formula and is not as simple as other M601 variants.
The Garret Fletcher conversion in Aus despite been a superior engineered aircraft is not certified in the Standard category and therefore is not eligible for use in Parachuting, given the right circumstances this would be a great aircraft.
As of today there is another option.............the stretched Fletcher Super Air NZ call the Fletcher EX with a PT6-11AG engine has been issued a STC in Standard Category. The one example of this aircraft set up for Parachuting in Aus will probably start work sometime in the near future. There could be bugs to work through but there are several of the stretched Fletchers doing Ag work in NZ with no obvious problems.
Fletcher airframes are cheap at the moment, but beware, some are cheap for very good reasons.
Jake
The Walter Fletcher is the cheapest option, albeit the Walter Engine has some unique disadvantages and advantages. The engine has a fuel consumption up to 15% greater than a PT6 of equivalent SHP. That's the biggest issue, but the Fletcher installation has at times had problems with fuel components and in the past random turbine/compressor blade failures although only one was in a Parachute aircraft to the best of my knowledge.
The upside of the Walter is apart from the lower purchase price, no HSI. no fuel nozzles, and in my opinion a better propeller and prop operating system. Also the factory support has in the past been great and they have on occasions pro-rata warrantied components up to the TBO of the engine. Be aware the M601D-11NZ has a unique cycle count formula and is not as simple as other M601 variants.
The Garret Fletcher conversion in Aus despite been a superior engineered aircraft is not certified in the Standard category and therefore is not eligible for use in Parachuting, given the right circumstances this would be a great aircraft.
As of today there is another option.............the stretched Fletcher Super Air NZ call the Fletcher EX with a PT6-11AG engine has been issued a STC in Standard Category. The one example of this aircraft set up for Parachuting in Aus will probably start work sometime in the near future. There could be bugs to work through but there are several of the stretched Fletchers doing Ag work in NZ with no obvious problems.
Fletcher airframes are cheap at the moment, but beware, some are cheap for very good reasons.
Jake
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Good post Jake
How many jumpers would the Walter Fletcher carry ?
Nice big wing on the Fletch also so it would be a good stable platform
Poor mans Porter ?
How many jumpers would the Walter Fletcher carry ?
Nice big wing on the Fletch also so it would be a good stable platform
Poor mans Porter ?
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Walter powered C207 that would be it! perfect size / price range ....
Email from CASA
Email from CASA
CASA has had enquiry on using the Comp Air for parachuting in Australia.
Unfortunately this aircraft does not meet certification for this role.
Regards ###
Unfortunately this aircraft does not meet certification for this role.
Regards ###
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Walter powered C207 that would be it! perfect size / price range ....
I'm surprised nobody has done it. I think there's an RR250-B17 (Allison) conversion for the 207 but the Allison and Garrett fixed turbine designs don't seem to like the high rates of descent and aerodynamic braking forces on the propellor and gearbox.
A Free turbine design like the PT6 and Walter seems to be the best set up for skydiving.
Always wanted to fly a jump plane with lift spoilers as well ! Could probably get an 8,000-10,000 fpm descent with a turbine / lift spoiler set up
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Walter Fletcher
Best to talk to the existing operators, NZONE and Skydive Nelson are both very good operators and will give you an honest assessment of the aircraft, they can both be found on the web.
Not sure if the comparison to the Porter has merit, Porter's are a fantastically unique aeroplane, and a Fletchers not..............its hard to describe what a Fletcher is, perhaps the most highly modified, adaptable, dependable, rugged, and lots of other things, GA aeroplane of all time. Don't forget it started out with a 220hp continental engine.
Just be aware if buying a used Fletcher, be very careful, they can be very expensive to return to a high standard if they've had years of neglect, poor maintenance, and repairs/modifications.
A good Fletcher does allow an operator to control costs and therefore stand a chance of making some much needed $$$$$$.
Jake
Not sure if the comparison to the Porter has merit, Porter's are a fantastically unique aeroplane, and a Fletchers not..............its hard to describe what a Fletcher is, perhaps the most highly modified, adaptable, dependable, rugged, and lots of other things, GA aeroplane of all time. Don't forget it started out with a 220hp continental engine.
Just be aware if buying a used Fletcher, be very careful, they can be very expensive to return to a high standard if they've had years of neglect, poor maintenance, and repairs/modifications.
A good Fletcher does allow an operator to control costs and therefore stand a chance of making some much needed $$$$$$.
Jake
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According to this link on the Walter site some one is operating a Walter Cessna 207
Number of Aircraft Types Flying with M601 Turboprop Engine Has Reached 30
I will try get their contact details & e-mail Walter to see who did the conversion.
Number of Aircraft Types Flying with M601 Turboprop Engine Has Reached 30
I will try get their contact details & e-mail Walter to see who did the conversion.
Last edited by Dusk till Prawn; 9th May 2009 at 01:27.
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Looks like the C207 M601 conversion was done by Turbine Solutions LLC .
I looked at their website (very basic) and it doesn't mention the C207 M601 , it maybe an experimental conversion only
Turbine Solutions, L.L.C. Home
I looked at their website (very basic) and it doesn't mention the C207 M601 , it maybe an experimental conversion only
Turbine Solutions, L.L.C. Home
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Here's the pricing for the Soloy C207 using an RR250 (418hp)
http://www.soloy.com/files/Products/...08%20Price.pdf
More good Walter info here
http://www.skytractor.com/WALTER.htm
Partners
Best bet is to email [email protected] and see what they know , there maybe a Walter C207 in the STC approval process
-
http://www.soloy.com/files/Products/...08%20Price.pdf
More good Walter info here
http://www.skytractor.com/WALTER.htm
Partners
Best bet is to email [email protected] and see what they know , there maybe a Walter C207 in the STC approval process
-
Last edited by aseanaero; 9th May 2009 at 02:13.
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Soloy & PT6 conversions are all upwards of $500K which is exactly what this thread is all about , which is trying to find a cheap turbine jump plane solution.
The Walter Turbine with mounts & accessories are about $120K , the engine alone new is only $50K so ... if you could get an old 207 and have this fitted you would have a great jump machine for under $500K
This would fill a huge gap in the market for the skydiving industry.
The Walter Turbine with mounts & accessories are about $120K , the engine alone new is only $50K so ... if you could get an old 207 and have this fitted you would have a great jump machine for under $500K
This would fill a huge gap in the market for the skydiving industry.
Firewall Forward Engine Packge • Complete IRAN "Firewall Forward" engine package
$117,000
Walter M601D Powerplant Options Available • Deluxe Stainless Steel Baffle Kit $1645 • Ceramic Coated Extractor Exhaust $3850 • Turbine Exhaust and Intake Covers (fabric muffs) $545
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Going on those 207 conversion costs you are looking at costs of about a mill including the airframe right?
A Walter conversion would be able to be done for $300k to $450k if there was an STC out there in the market.
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Dusk Till Prawn, can you please pm me or post who you spoke to or emailed at CASA? I've been re-reading and still fail to see why an aircraft needs to be certified for a Private Operation. (I am aware of the whole argument of Private versus Commercial Ops for Skydiving).
I don't understand how a CASA employee can say that an aircraft can't be used because it's not certified when it clearly doesn't.
Eg. A Building materials company can fly people round all day in a Compair experimental whatver size and I don't understand why a skydiving aircraft can't.
I don't understand how a CASA employee can say that an aircraft can't be used because it's not certified when it clearly doesn't.
Eg. A Building materials company can fly people round all day in a Compair experimental whatver size and I don't understand why a skydiving aircraft can't.
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XXX
The 'soon' to be introduced update of the APF op regs will be the clincher, as it will require PJE a/c to be maintained to the same schedule as chtr cat a/c (cat B if I recall correctly)
The draft copy of the update was on the APF website.. be buggered if I can find it now...
The 'soon' to be introduced update of the APF op regs will be the clincher, as it will require PJE a/c to be maintained to the same schedule as chtr cat a/c (cat B if I recall correctly)
The draft copy of the update was on the APF website.. be buggered if I can find it now...
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the APF being the governing body as appointed by casa (hence APF op regs are approved by casa) , operators in breach of the APF op regs would in the find themselves subject to a casa 'probing'
APF's the toothless tiger, casa well........
APF's the toothless tiger, casa well........