Drug and alcohol testing commenced at Moorabbin

[nick2007]

Wally, could you not declare it a mercy flight (as a life is at stake), and head off anyway?

[pcx]

Desmotronic
I think if you reread my post you will find that I am saying that the declaration of a mercy flight would involve some paperwork but would be a non event.
The reason for declaring a mercy flight would be to cover you and allow the flight to continue and hopefully provide the optimum outcome for the patient.

[desmotronic]

You are right my mistake.

[Matt-YSBK]

Did anybody notice the brand name/model of the saliva kits the contractors used to test for drugs. If the type/model can be noted these things can be purchased for a few bucks on the internet and keep them in your flight bag. Then if you think the medication you have taken is on the banned list (or your not even sure) just test yourself and go to work. If you test positive call in sick. Also works if you are unsure how long it takes for these drugs to get out of your system.

They could be sold at pilot shops and on pilot web sites and no one need put there license at risk again.

There are plenty of the kits available on US web sites but my research seems to point that there cutoff levels are different to the Australian ones.

[inandout]

I spoke to a CASA representative to clarify what types of medication one can take. I had assumed that if it did not contain a drug from the list from the 'CASA Part 99 - Drug and Alcohol Management Plans and Testing' then you could use it. The representative advised that this is not the case and you have to go to the chemist to find out what is in the medication. This affectively puts the onus on the pilot and lets CASA once again, control a completely ill-conceived operation. The whole thing is just bloody outrageous and someone should take it to the media.

To give an example of what I am talking about, I asked if I could take Sinutab (sinus medication) which on the labelling list none of the drugs mention in Part 99, yet he said that just because the packaging didn't mention the drugs it did not mean the product could be taken legally and advised me to check with a chemist. What a joke. CASA came up with the idea, it shouldn't be for us to find out what we can take, it should be up to them to tell us what we can't take. ie. a complete and thorough list.

[Mr. Hat]

gleckichi, i think its written somewhere from memory in addition to the 8hrs bottle to throttle "not under the influence".

Alcohol and medication, its all a risk. Chemist says its fine but really you are relying on his/her word.

[tmpffisch]

Went to the chemist the other day to get something for a cold, and the only thing he could recommend was a saline nasal spray. Every other product may/could/would cause a positive result, either by the ingredient physically being in the product, OR by it possibly metabolising into a form of banned ingredient once I consumed it.

[glekichi]

Mr Hat,

Kind of. What it (CAR256) says is:

(2) A person acting as a member of the operating crew of an aircraft, or
carried in the aircraft to act as a member of the operating crew, shall
not, while so acting or carried, be in a state in which, by reason of his
or her having consumed, used, or absorbed any alcoholic liquor, drug,
pharmaceutical or medicinal preparation or other substance, his or her
capacity so to act is impaired.

Which is essentially, as you say, the same as "under the influence". It is not clearly defined by a certain level of the drug/alcohol and they would need to show that you were actually impaired at the time.

Its like riding a bike when you're pissed. They can't do you for being over .05 but can nail you for DUI so long as you are clearly impaired (and you don't necessarily need to be over 0.05 either!).

Yep, I just looked that up, because I am on non-drowsy flu medication, with which I have done a ground trial to assure it does not make me drowsy, and I am flying tonight.

[Kelly Slater]

I'd say that there is a better than 50% chance that your non-drowsy flu medication would return a positive if you were tested tonight and there in lies the problem.

[Deaf]

Re Narcotics

Codeine and Morphine both come from opium and are almost the same (hydroxyl or methyl group attached to a big mess). Process in Oz and elsewhere is opium is seperated into codeine. morphine etc and they are then fiddled according as to what the demand is.

The separation is only so good so codeine will contain morphine. Heroin is a morphine compound.
So given a sufficently sensitive test someone who has taken codine will show as taken heroin (have they just had a cold tablet to disguise this).

In terms of how sensitive a test can be they tested the Po river in Italy (big river, sewerage for several million people) as a p**s test for cocaine.
The results showed x kilos (tons?) of cocaine had been consumed in the watershed far more than anyone had thought.

[inandout]

If I didn't work for an Airline I would go to the media re this , I wish someone would, to show up these

[glekichi]

KS

Yeah, the doctor (DAME) I spoke to said there was a slight chance it might be picked up on an initial test but that the lab test would clear me.

I am about to take 2 weeks leave anyway, and its not until a few people do get suspended incorrectly that this whole thing will be exposed for what it is!

Although, having said that a freight pilot being stood down probably wouldn't provoke any change. It would need to be a Q pilot with a good lawyer, I guess.

[Wally Mk2]

Mercy Flight

Re those saying could one not declare a Mercy Flight in the above scene that I painted?. Well yes you could declare a Mercy Flight this I have done a couple of times with another Co. but we at the 'Rufdus' rarely if ever have had to do such a flight due to options even if they are remote but possible. Mercy flight by it's very nature means to complete the task taking all reasonable care ref to rules etc.but going outside thoese rules where the PIC consideres it necesary & when there is no other means available to complete the mission/task. Well if I where in the scenario as described then there would be options as in ground transport albiet no doubt a risky undertaking with very low postive/s outcomes due time/distance constraints. I was faced with this type of situation (Mercy Flight) many years ago on a Pacific Is in the middle of the night where I had to delcare a Mercy Flight back to Oz due the WX at destination becoming forecast as needing more fuel than I could carry, that was a Mercy Flight due no other parcticable way of doing the flight & therefore saving the patient.
The DAMP is just another "to be seen to be doing something" in the eyes of the rule makers about what has essentially been around since man took flight
Remember WE put those stupid rule makers there, that's the sh1tty bit!!!


WMK2