Drug and alcohol testing commenced at Moorabbin
Sprucegoose
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Location: Hughes Point, where life is great! Was also resident on page 13, but now I'm lost in Cyberspace....
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I always thought that a 'false positive' in drug testing terms, meant a failure of the testing procedure, rather than an incorrect positive reading.
I wil be interested to see how this thread develops!
I wil be interested to see how this thread develops!
An interesting side thought.
A few years ago I was warned by a reasonably well ranked Police Officer that if you are ever subjected to a drug swab test you should insist on having the swab returned to you if the result is a negative.
He was of the firm belief that there was an underlying agenda to keep the swab on file to build up a DNA data base.
Could be a bit of paranioa but makes you wonder, after all they have your details and now a DNA swab, that's all they need.
A few years ago I was warned by a reasonably well ranked Police Officer that if you are ever subjected to a drug swab test you should insist on having the swab returned to you if the result is a negative.
He was of the firm belief that there was an underlying agenda to keep the swab on file to build up a DNA data base.
Could be a bit of paranioa but makes you wonder, after all they have your details and now a DNA swab, that's all they need.
It is going to be 'interesting' to see what happens when some false positives inevitably turn up in the ATC workplace. No idea what the turnaround time will be on clearing them, but the impact on the staff coverage, ability to replace staff, and consequences for provision of ATC services will then no doubt lead to some bush lawyers seeking compensation for delays. Who pays for this?
If there was a big drug & alcohol problem within the industry (ATC specifically) I would say, ok there is a problem lets deal with it - but really, apart from fulfilling some theoretical duty of care to discharge a potential liability in a possible court case, who is this helping?
I have always thought a common sense approach to allocating the limited budget and resources to where the problems are made sense in a small country like Australia, and especially in an even smaller industry within that country.
This just smacks to me of fixing a problem where one never existed, and keeping some people in shiny suits employed in grey corridors in an even greyer city.
In terms of safety based outcomes, I have little doubt there would plenty of you who have better ideas & better places this effort and expense could be made.
Now,,,, pass me the box of poppy seed bagels!
If there was a big drug & alcohol problem within the industry (ATC specifically) I would say, ok there is a problem lets deal with it - but really, apart from fulfilling some theoretical duty of care to discharge a potential liability in a possible court case, who is this helping?
I have always thought a common sense approach to allocating the limited budget and resources to where the problems are made sense in a small country like Australia, and especially in an even smaller industry within that country.
This just smacks to me of fixing a problem where one never existed, and keeping some people in shiny suits employed in grey corridors in an even greyer city.
In terms of safety based outcomes, I have little doubt there would plenty of you who have better ideas & better places this effort and expense could be made.
Now,,,, pass me the box of poppy seed bagels!
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I would of thought a testing regime that concentrated entirely on GAAPS and Kiwi flight instructors would return some interesting results!!!!
(ducks back into bomb shelter....waits for bang!!!)
(ducks back into bomb shelter....waits for bang!!!)
Bottums Up
Freight Dog,
I think the underlying answer to your questions is that on-the-spot testing can't differentiate between codeine (good drug) and it's not so good relatives, without the swab and subsequent lab test. I guess another way of looking at the test, is that it really says, 'does this person's body have substances which could be detrimental.
Personally, I don't think a false positive is grounds to consider one's reputation tarnished but I see how many would, wrongly, jump to that conclusion. It will be sad if employers take such a view against their own employees.
I think the underlying answer to your questions is that on-the-spot testing can't differentiate between codeine (good drug) and it's not so good relatives, without the swab and subsequent lab test. I guess another way of looking at the test, is that it really says, 'does this person's body have substances which could be detrimental.
Personally, I don't think a false positive is grounds to consider one's reputation tarnished but I see how many would, wrongly, jump to that conclusion. It will be sad if employers take such a view against their own employees.
What about this scenario?
Its just hit 4pm on a fri arvo and everyone cracks open the beers as a lot of the smaller schools and clubs do. A few pilots (students, instructors) are sitting around sharing a few stories as they do every fri. arvo when in walk the Narc's asking for a random breath test. Whats the definition of knocking off? This is a real scenario where I worked and I know it is at a lot of the other smaller schools too. Is it now illegal to have a few beers on a friday afternoon on the premises?
Its just hit 4pm on a fri arvo and everyone cracks open the beers as a lot of the smaller schools and clubs do. A few pilots (students, instructors) are sitting around sharing a few stories as they do every fri. arvo when in walk the Narc's asking for a random breath test. Whats the definition of knocking off? This is a real scenario where I worked and I know it is at a lot of the other smaller schools too. Is it now illegal to have a few beers on a friday afternoon on the premises?
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Freight Dog,
sorry to correct you, but it appears from the report that you linked in your post, it was not the ATSB. The first page indicates that it was DOTARS and CASA.
Tinkicker
sorry to correct you, but it appears from the report that you linked in your post, it was not the ATSB. The first page indicates that it was DOTARS and CASA.
Tinkicker
Thread Starter
drug and alcohol testing at Moorabbin
Had this clarified by CASA today. There is no requirement to actually leave the premises. The requirement is that you are unable to participate in safety sensitive activities.
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So, by your understanding, is it still OK for a person to take cold and flu meds as long they are willing to be stood down pending the results of a lab test? If the results come back as codeine then everyone is free to go their separate way?
As for the negative connotations of an initial positive, we will all have to be careful not to cast the first stone and make negative assumptions until the lab tests are through.
Lasiorhinus and glenb, thanks for that, I had wondered that myself and CASA have not been free with explanations.
But is it now not ok to have a beer after work on the premises? ie. putting you over the 'limit' in a lot of cases. Whats the definition of being on the premises and working, or being there and being "knocked off" for the day but still in uniform minus epaulettes. Whats the defining point as far as they are concerned as Im sure "but Ive finished for the day" wont cut it.
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If what glenb says is correct (I'm sure he's right but don't put money on CASA 
) I would have thought it was okay as long as you were not taking part in safety sensitive activities. If your duty hours were over (as per the sign on sheets or whatever your company procedure is) and you weren't doing anything safety sensitive it would seem to be permissable.
Personally, however, I will be retiring to the pub for any after work drinkies, because then there is no ambiguity. If staying on premises, maybe a change of clothes would be advisable.
) I would have thought it was okay as long as you were not taking part in safety sensitive activities. If your duty hours were over (as per the sign on sheets or whatever your company procedure is) and you weren't doing anything safety sensitive it would seem to be permissable. Personally, however, I will be retiring to the pub for any after work drinkies, because then there is no ambiguity. If staying on premises, maybe a change of clothes would be advisable.
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Freight dog, plain and simple. No more OTC. Fullstop.
You call sick. You don't risk your career.
According to the pamphlet 48 hrs. 7 days well forget the OTC drugs then. Its funny how different parts of the industry have no idea about this at all. Spok to some flighties the other day at work and they had no idea about the whole thing.
You call sick. You don't risk your career.
According to the pamphlet 48 hrs. 7 days well forget the OTC drugs then. Its funny how different parts of the industry have no idea about this at all. Spok to some flighties the other day at work and they had no idea about the whole thing.
I'm still waiting for them to start on the non pilot areas of aviation.
A few flying schools have no voice. Wait till they start this on the Firies, ATC, security, catering etc etc....
Then it will get some air time!
A few flying schools have no voice. Wait till they start this on the Firies, ATC, security, catering etc etc....
Then it will get some air time!
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I was looking on the net to try and find more information about testing and how long codeine stays in your system and look what I found -Saliva Drug Test Solutions!
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All Saliva Cleansing Solutions are certified with a full 100% MONEY BACK GUARANTEE! All you have to do is follow the simple instructions and the guaranteed passing result will be achieved. This includes all EMIT and GC/MS confirmation drug tests preformed by drug testing labs.
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if i am in the middle of a $100,000.00 charter and get tested and fail even though i know i have not taken drugs or alcohol how do they stop you getting into your a/c and flying . There is only a few people who are endorsed on our a/c ( let alone current with company base checks ) . I think i will continue to fly and deal with it later when it is proved false . I will also be asking for my own identical specimen . Just imagine being tested and getiingba false positive on your departure to the US where we need weeks notice for TSA approval for each pax/pilot each sector . This will bring the careers and industry to its knees .
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Let's hope it does happen to the sole pilot of a very expensive charter as hung start paints it, because then the mo
ns who came up with this rubbish half-baked process will get sued and this guilty-until-proven-otherwise wnk will be changed quicker than CASA can write out the huge cheques that the courts will make them pay in compensation..
Sadly my earlier recommendation to start a collection for the legal fees of the pilot disadvantaged by one of the first false positives seems not to have been met with great enthusiasm, that would have sent a very clear signal to over overzealous and underachieving regulator that they got it dead wrong
ns who came up with this rubbish half-baked process will get sued and this guilty-until-proven-otherwise wnk will be changed quicker than CASA can write out the huge cheques that the courts will make them pay in compensation..Sadly my earlier recommendation to start a collection for the legal fees of the pilot disadvantaged by one of the first false positives seems not to have been met with great enthusiasm, that would have sent a very clear signal to over overzealous and underachieving regulator that they got it dead wrong