Ndb Approaches And Equipment
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Ndb Approaches And Equipment
I Have Heard That All Of The Qantas Mainstream Fleet Are Not Equipped With NDB Receivers And Pointers. Is That True ? Also Are Qantas Pilots Checked For NDB Proficency In The Simulator?
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I Know That The A330 Is Not Fitted With An ADF, And Most Pilots, If Not All, Are Atleast Considered Current And Proficient With, At Minimum The VOR (For The S/o's) And Upwards From There For The F/o's And The Captains.
The Simulator For The A330 Is Fitted With NDB Equipment, However, Endorsements Are Not Inculsive Of The NDB Approach....
What's With The Capital's At The Start Of Each Word Peter?
The Simulator For The A330 Is Fitted With NDB Equipment, However, Endorsements Are Not Inculsive Of The NDB Approach....
What's With The Capital's At The Start Of Each Word Peter?
Just about any modern aircraft is no longer equipped with ADF as standard, reason being that they are built in America and America doesn't really use NDBs at all from what i understand (good on'em i say! 
). So its not just Qantas, it'll start creeping out to GA as older aircraft are replaced and/or ADFs become too expensive and harder to find! Not to mention with GPS becoming more and more widespread and reliable.
). So its not just Qantas, it'll start creeping out to GA as older aircraft are replaced and/or ADFs become too expensive and harder to find! Not to mention with GPS becoming more and more widespread and reliable.
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just my bad punctuation if thats what you might call it!..but what i would like to know....do Qantas crew checked for NDB approaches?....for eg...i would be surprised if the 737's were not equiped with ADF's and if equiped one would assume that you would be able to use it...right or wrong.The reason i am asking is that i heard that all the Q fleet were not equiped and that no pilots were now currently required to be profficient with the approach.
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When are they getting rid of NDB's?? Isn’t it 2010?? After this date air services will no longer maintain NDB's and will decommission them as they breakdown ECT? Or am i wrong?
Why would they bother?
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NDB 'pointer'
A friend of mine/instructor who taught me to fly twin engined aircraft and is an accomplished GPS Instructor/Pilot told and taught me that although NDB's are vanishing everywhere that if it all turn's to custard, gee that NEVER happens!!! anywhere or ever!!! that there will always be a needle somewhere in the aircraft that points to a station 'somewhere' i.e. it is over there.....
Because of this 'never to happen' scenario it is in your best interest to know how to use the ADF/NDB equipment as one day it may be all you have.
More importantly most of us fly aircraft (at the training/GA level that are reasonably elderly > 20 years old) that do have an ADF and although change is ocurring it will be sometime before most of us fly an aircraft without an ADF and even then in case of major failure there will likely be a sole needle pointing to 'something'.
I personally hate the ADF and won't be sorry to see the back of it but I am grateful for a SIM instructor that has beaten the use of the same into me...
RPP
Because of this 'never to happen' scenario it is in your best interest to know how to use the ADF/NDB equipment as one day it may be all you have.
More importantly most of us fly aircraft (at the training/GA level that are reasonably elderly > 20 years old) that do have an ADF and although change is ocurring it will be sometime before most of us fly an aircraft without an ADF and even then in case of major failure there will likely be a sole needle pointing to 'something'.
I personally hate the ADF and won't be sorry to see the back of it but I am grateful for a SIM instructor that has beaten the use of the same into me...
RPP
How does one get the footy / cricket scores without having an ADF to tune to the local ABC????
CAN'T ask good ole' FS no more!!!
Can't ask ATC either, I hear.....
CAN'T ask good ole' FS no more!!!
Can't ask ATC either, I hear.....
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Am I the only one who enjoys NDB approaches??? Very comforting, droning around an NDB in the clag with the ident beeping away in the background.
A bit more of a challenge to read the needle properly than a VOR/LOC/ILS.
Had brilliant teaching from Steve Pearce so it always made sense.
A bit more of a challenge to read the needle properly than a VOR/LOC/ILS.
Had brilliant teaching from Steve Pearce so it always made sense.
no ADF+NDB, no go at night to BME or AYQ
Just curious.
Dr
Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 27th Mar 2009 at 05:09.
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just my bad punctuation if thats what you might call it!..but what i would like to know....do Qantas crew checked for NDB approaches?....for eg...i would be surprised if the 737's were not equiped with ADF's and if equiped one would assume that you would be able to use it...right or wrong.The reason i am asking is that i heard that all the Q fleet were not equiped and that no pilots were now currently required to be profficient with the approach.
Please tell me you are not a journalist trying to sensationalize and beat up some type of incorrect story........
Go and have a look at the cockpit pictures of the 747-400, 737 series and 767. You find an adf. The pilots are licenced, authorized and checked to use this navaid. There are still plenty of NDB's around the world - although this navigation system will be obsolete in the near future.
My understanding is the A330 is a slightly different story with the NDB approaches replaced by RNAV approaches.
It is my understanding that all is above board and compliant.
I would suggest that your "source" that you "heard" it from obviously has mislead you with partial information - or alternatively has little or no knowledge about the subject.
Should you have any concern - please state your concern so that it can be addressed.
The ADF dilema!
The ADF has played a starring role in my last 22 IR renewals so I am somewhat attached to the needle that points the way home, although I have only flown one NDB approach in anger in that time. Given the choice these days, I will take the RNAV Appr every time.
Call me old-fashioned but it has always been somewhat comforting to be able to tune up the Townsville ATIS about 300nm out, and have that needle confirm what 2 or GPSs are telling me.
However, the 32 yr old ADF in the FTDK is now kaput!
I have invested about $1500 trying to bring it back on line - but alas, I feel that it may be money wasted.
A new ADF is about US$7k plus fitting, versus about US$3k for a TSO'd Garmin 155XL GPS. Its kinda hard to justify the extra US$4k for something I never use. The 155XL would be a nice companion for the 430W in the FTDK.
It probably is not an issue for the Gen Y'ers, but for one who cut their IFR on the ADF, it just doesn't feel right flying an aeroplane without the needle that can have a mind of its own.
Dr
PS: Yeah, yeah, I know - a 155XL would make 7!
Call me old-fashioned but it has always been somewhat comforting to be able to tune up the Townsville ATIS about 300nm out, and have that needle confirm what 2 or GPSs are telling me.
However, the 32 yr old ADF in the FTDK is now kaput!
I have invested about $1500 trying to bring it back on line - but alas, I feel that it may be money wasted.
A new ADF is about US$7k plus fitting, versus about US$3k for a TSO'd Garmin 155XL GPS. Its kinda hard to justify the extra US$4k for something I never use. The 155XL would be a nice companion for the 430W in the FTDK.
It probably is not an issue for the Gen Y'ers, but for one who cut their IFR on the ADF, it just doesn't feel right flying an aeroplane without the needle that can have a mind of its own.
Dr
PS: Yeah, yeah, I know - a 155XL would make 7!
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Peterjdesouza,
As an3_bolt has said... you are incorrect. The vast majority of the fleets are fitted with an ADF, with SOME (not all) of the A330's an exception.
These days, RNP/RNAV/Whatever it is approved in its place, which is what the A330's use in their place for legalities.
That said, there is no legal requirement to fly anywhere with an ADF anway, as long as you meet all the requirements! Think dual VOR, ILS recievers, and for some fleets, RNP.
The fleets with the ADF's fitted have the pilots apprpriately licenced and qualified to fly approaches with them. Those flying into Melbourne at the moment are having the pleasure!
No story here whatsoever.
As an3_bolt has said... you are incorrect. The vast majority of the fleets are fitted with an ADF, with SOME (not all) of the A330's an exception.
These days, RNP/RNAV/Whatever it is approved in its place, which is what the A330's use in their place for legalities.
That said, there is no legal requirement to fly anywhere with an ADF anway, as long as you meet all the requirements! Think dual VOR, ILS recievers, and for some fleets, RNP.
The fleets with the ADF's fitted have the pilots apprpriately licenced and qualified to fly approaches with them. Those flying into Melbourne at the moment are having the pleasure!
No story here whatsoever.
Bloggs said: no ADF+NDB, no go at night to BME or AYQ
FTDK asked: Bloggsie, why would it not just mean that you need to carry an alternate that has a VOR appr?
FTDK asked: Bloggsie, why would it not just mean that you need to carry an alternate that has a VOR appr?
Pete, you get nice civil replies here don't you...not.
you are incorrect.
Please tell me you are not a journalist trying to sensationalize and beat up some type of incorrect story........
Go and have a look at the cockpit pictures of the 747-400, 737 series and 767. You find an adf.
Should you have any concern - please state your concern so that it can be addressed.
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There are still plenty of NDB's around the world - although this navigation system will be obsolete in the near future.
You can fight it as much as you like but the NDB is going. Australia also will progressively retire its NDB's as they approach their overhaul point.
Plenty of new aircraft do not have an ADF as standard equipment.
Obviously you can pay extra to get one, but that won't be for much longer.
IT's really in the same class as having an ELT that works on 121.5 but not 406.
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Ndb/adf
Rich Pitch Power:
I thought the NDB approach was great, especially in Russia where the location of the beacon was at the approach end of each runway. The needle always seemed to say "hello, dummy, dummy, here is the end of the runway". It often helped!
Tmb
I thought the NDB approach was great, especially in Russia where the location of the beacon was at the approach end of each runway. The needle always seemed to say "hello, dummy, dummy, here is the end of the runway". It often helped!
Tmb