How would you deal with this?
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1. Not all aircraft can be hand started. no impulse coupling = no hand swing, not all aircraft have impulse magneto(s). shower of sparks type is problematic as are 3 and 4 blade props.
2. Chocking and tail tying is very important. i spent years hand swinging and never had issues, but, that was because i was prepared and it was a matter of course. the 'emergency' start is always the tricky one. The holes in the swiss cheese are more likely to line up when, pressure, time, lack of resources/assistance, remote place, lack of familiarity, no communications etc are all piled onto each other. stop and think very carefully, theer is usually a way out of the situation, even if there is some (usually deserved) arse kicking done later on. it is better than dealing witha situation like the one in that very scary movie.
3. On a busy field like shown there is always someone to help, therefore no need to go it alone.
4. I often leave the beacon (if fitted) turned on all the time, that will likely ensure that the master is off and the battery available the following day, as it is harder to walk away from a plane with a blinking beacon woithout noticing. leaving master/mags on is a dread fear I have, I will double check if unsure.
5. You cannot legislate or educate for common sense. The Mangalore 'accident' was the result of someone doing something that was not only a poor display of airmanship, was done without extra assistance (although there were plenty of appropriate people around) and worst of all was done against the direct, explicit and emphatically repeated instructions of the Air display supervisor at the pre show briefing. how does any advice or education work in those circumstances?
Take care, it does happen from time to time that hand swinging is an appropriate solution, but needs to be done properly, with the assistance of people who know what they are doing. It really is a case that failing to prepare will prepare you to fail, and it might have fairly major consequences, for you, the insurance company and others.
HD
2. Chocking and tail tying is very important. i spent years hand swinging and never had issues, but, that was because i was prepared and it was a matter of course. the 'emergency' start is always the tricky one. The holes in the swiss cheese are more likely to line up when, pressure, time, lack of resources/assistance, remote place, lack of familiarity, no communications etc are all piled onto each other. stop and think very carefully, theer is usually a way out of the situation, even if there is some (usually deserved) arse kicking done later on. it is better than dealing witha situation like the one in that very scary movie.
3. On a busy field like shown there is always someone to help, therefore no need to go it alone.
4. I often leave the beacon (if fitted) turned on all the time, that will likely ensure that the master is off and the battery available the following day, as it is harder to walk away from a plane with a blinking beacon woithout noticing. leaving master/mags on is a dread fear I have, I will double check if unsure.
5. You cannot legislate or educate for common sense. The Mangalore 'accident' was the result of someone doing something that was not only a poor display of airmanship, was done without extra assistance (although there were plenty of appropriate people around) and worst of all was done against the direct, explicit and emphatically repeated instructions of the Air display supervisor at the pre show briefing. how does any advice or education work in those circumstances?
Take care, it does happen from time to time that hand swinging is an appropriate solution, but needs to be done properly, with the assistance of people who know what they are doing. It really is a case that failing to prepare will prepare you to fail, and it might have fairly major consequences, for you, the insurance company and others.
HD
Psycho Joe's answer is nearest to correct. Correct answer involves a bucket, a towel and a very sharp knife.
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Here is the Darwin hand swing thread: http://www.pprune.org/dunnunda-godzo...de-darwin.html
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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I hand started an engine on a BN2 many moons ago and described the incident in another thread some time back.
The procedure I used was demonstrated to me by the Douglas Airways CP when I started with them and was quite simple;
Set Brakes on.
Prime Engine normally.
Throttle Fully closed.
Both Mags and master switch ON
Swing away, ensuring that you have good firm groung beneath your feet and weight is always on the back foot, stepping back as you swing.
Took me about twenty-odd swings but it eventually fired up.
I was'nt going to stop trying anyway. It was BBQ night at the Club Dero and I was the other side of the Owen Stanleys!
The procedure I used was demonstrated to me by the Douglas Airways CP when I started with them and was quite simple;
Set Brakes on.
Prime Engine normally.
Throttle Fully closed.
Both Mags and master switch ON
Swing away, ensuring that you have good firm groung beneath your feet and weight is always on the back foot, stepping back as you swing.
Took me about twenty-odd swings but it eventually fired up.
I was'nt going to stop trying anyway. It was BBQ night at the Club Dero and I was the other side of the Owen Stanleys!
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Hand swinging was once part of the curriculum. It went naturally with the old Gypsy Majors, Continental C85's and impulse magnetoes etc. Then technology came along and stuffed it all up for the worse, so the art was lost.
In my misspent yoof I flew Herons with the original Gypsy Queen engines. For such a lump of metal they were piss-easy to hand swing which was just as well because starters did fail and batteries did go flat. The main thing was to pick the one with the broken starter and do it first, then get on board and fire up the other three. Very dangerouse to do it the other way round! And to make it even more interesting, we flew those Herons on domestic ops as single pilot and the problem always happened on some remote island, never at main base. Pommy engineering at its best.
The other (and preferred) method, assuming the battery was not the problem, was to fire up the three good ones and take off with no passengers, do a windmill start on the dud, then come back and board the pax with the affected engine running. These days, if we pulled a stunt like that CASA would have babies. Life was much less stressful before they invented the nanny-state and litigation.
The other (and preferred) method, assuming the battery was not the problem, was to fire up the three good ones and take off with no passengers, do a windmill start on the dud, then come back and board the pax with the affected engine running. These days, if we pulled a stunt like that CASA would have babies. Life was much less stressful before they invented the nanny-state and litigation.
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BN2 Rope Start
I leant to hand start on an Auster (no starter) so it was 'normal' for me at the time. Brake on, chocks in place & just crack the throttle off idle. We didnt tie the tail down although sounds like a good idea.
I have rope started a BN2 a couple of times in PNG. I carried a rope just for the occasion(better than spending a night in the bush). I just wrapped the rope around the spinner and used a few 'volunteers' to pull. One of our pilots got it wrong once though, the rope got caught up and the knotted end of the rope punched a hole through the skin on the underside of his plane. So it is important that the volunteers dont wrap the rope around their wrists to get a better grip or they might end up getting a much closer look at the prop than they were anticipating!
Have also hand started BN2's, much easier with a rope though. Hand started a C206 in PNG once, I had a sod of a job getting it started by myself.
Foot placement is also very important when hand starting, so if you slip, you fall back not forward.
I have rope started a BN2 a couple of times in PNG. I carried a rope just for the occasion(better than spending a night in the bush). I just wrapped the rope around the spinner and used a few 'volunteers' to pull. One of our pilots got it wrong once though, the rope got caught up and the knotted end of the rope punched a hole through the skin on the underside of his plane. So it is important that the volunteers dont wrap the rope around their wrists to get a better grip or they might end up getting a much closer look at the prop than they were anticipating!
Have also hand started BN2's, much easier with a rope though. Hand started a C206 in PNG once, I had a sod of a job getting it started by myself.
Foot placement is also very important when hand starting, so if you slip, you fall back not forward.
Thread Starter
1. Not all aircraft can be hand started. no impulse coupling = no hand swing, not all aircraft have impulse magneto(s). shower of sparks type is problematic as are 3 and 4 blade props.
I think I'd be physically disconnecting the starter just to be sure if I had to do it.
Oh and he started it without having someone hold the switch.
Will it be difficult?
Sure will but he got lucky I guess.
Not true, the famous VH-ACZ was started by hand on at least one occasion by a co-worker of mine when it had a starter failure on the worlds longest mail run.
DF.
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Yep guys like Mr Pilot have no choice in the matter, this is how one went flying!
If it is taught properly and safely you can't go wrong. Mr Pilot, do you swing from in front or behind? I was taught this technique of holding onto the corbane strut with my right hand, chocks in place, and use left hand to swing propellor (from behind disk). Then within a second can reach to adjust throttle to idle rpm. Have seen many do it from the front, always interesting to see the different approaches used.
If it is taught properly and safely you can't go wrong. Mr Pilot, do you swing from in front or behind? I was taught this technique of holding onto the corbane strut with my right hand, chocks in place, and use left hand to swing propellor (from behind disk). Then within a second can reach to adjust throttle to idle rpm. Have seen many do it from the front, always interesting to see the different approaches used.
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Hand swing
We got stuck up at Fitzroy Crossing, pooped starter motor, had to hand swing to get to Broome. I stayed in the cockpit, taught the passenger how to hand swing (and get out the way also). Live mags on the swing, brakes etc on, got it started and off we went. No problem if thought about and done right.
OH MY GOD.
Board pig - I would rather teach the pax to stand on the brakes than risk turning 'em into mince meat.
"See that red knob? pull that if she gets away!"
Board pig - I would rather teach the pax to stand on the brakes than risk turning 'em into mince meat.
"See that red knob? pull that if she gets away!"
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There is a succinct two word phase I use when some one suggests hand propping an aircraft.
I've seen it done many times on tigers and I have seen a man with several thousand hours on tigers get all the bones in one hand broken doing it !
My favourite trick (learnt from an xc falcon ute I once had) is to wack the starter with a spanner - this usually wakes up the solenoid and gives you a chance at starting it normally, this only works if you have juice in the battery so refer to the earlier comments about leaving the rotating beacon on.
I've seen it done many times on tigers and I have seen a man with several thousand hours on tigers get all the bones in one hand broken doing it !
My favourite trick (learnt from an xc falcon ute I once had) is to wack the starter with a spanner - this usually wakes up the solenoid and gives you a chance at starting it normally, this only works if you have juice in the battery so refer to the earlier comments about leaving the rotating beacon on.
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When the tide had turned and was coming back up the beach, even if there wasn't much energy in the battery to start the Cherokee 6, there seemed to be plenty in the arm. Recall the 260 horse carby version was easier. (Same for Islanders.)
