Joining Downwind?

[FourBalls]

3 leg rule

CAR 1988 166

(d) unless subregulation (3) or (4) applies — when approaching the
aerodrome to land, join the circuit pattern for the direction in
which landing is to be undertaken on the upwind, crosswind or
downwind leg; and

Note A circuit pattern has upwind, cross-wind, down-wind, base and final legs.

(3) refers to straight-in approaches
(4) refers to CASA approval to join base

C'mon people. It's not complicated despite the attempts by some to complicate it.

[Towering Q]

FourBalls, you're right....it only becomes complicated when those Rotary types arrive on the scene.

[Atlas Shrugged]

In a CTAF for me it is "Communicate, Aviate, Navigate"

Aviate is ALWAYS first!

[sms777]

Atlas

Of course it is.....
I tried to emphasize the importance of communication in CTAF's

[lk978]

A little off topic but I had a complaint from a resident about low flying aircraft at Wollongong.

this is the location just over the fence.

Laurel Ave, Albion Park Rail NSW 2527 - Google Maps

[flysaucer1200]

over head rejoins

So, what about over head rejoins???

[kabammmd]

i think that the problem in that occasion was that the connie never use 08 or 26 for size problem.....did you see how big is that thing?
how can you expect the pilot to join 08 only because 2 light aircraft has joined a different runway? i know ywol and i know that the connie fly downwind legs at 3 nm if not more from the aerodrome, so there is not conflict in that, just watch out for touch down.

[Jabawocky]

The connie was most likely at a 1500' circuit height. If so, you would have been joining at 1000' AGL, unless you were in something fast.

Does that stir up the pot a little?

J

[flog]

Anyone here learn to fly at YLIL recently? How were you taught to join the circuit?

I imagine it wasn't by overflying Sugarloaf at 500'agl and then dive bombing the pattern mid-downwind.

[QSK?]

Extended Downwind Joins

I suspect Kickatinalong is referring specifically to an "extended" downwind join at non-controlled airports i.e joining downwind from outside the circuit area. For example, this happens quite regularly at Ayers Rock Airport (flights from the South East joining downwind for R13) and Bundaberg (flights joining downwind R14 from the South); just 2 examples I can think of.

Looking at all the Australian (and US) regulatory documents, as well as the NAS2C guidance material, it would appear that an "extended" downwind join is no longer an accepted procedure because, as Lasiorhinus has previously indicated, AIP refers only to a 45 deg downwind join or a mid-downwind join, both of which still facilitate regulatory compliance with the "3 legs of a circuit" requirement. The "extended downwind" join is also not depicted on any of the supporting circuit procedure diagrams for Australlia's non-controlled airports possibly because it is not considered by CASA to be an appropriate circuit joining point.

It is also interesting to note that Canadian AIP documentation specifically references extended downwind joins at non-controlled airports and permits them but only "...if no conflict exists". This would appear to support benleg's comment that:

You could run into traffic making a 45 deg left turn at circuit height on departure.

Now the sad part is, despite my best efforts, no one inside CASA or the flight training industry is able to confirm whether extended downwind joins are permissable or not. If they are not permitted, then a massive industry re-education program may be required to stop this practice occurring because many pilots continue to engage in extended downwind joins at non-controlled airports.

What's everyone else's view?

[PlankBlender]

Note the AIP ENR 1.1.64 makes recommendations, so apart from the requirement in CAR 166 a pilot is pretty free to do whatever makes sense to him or her, and of course for everybody's safety use the push to talk button!