Massey University Flying School
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Massey University Flying School
Can anyone shed some light about Massey Universitys pilot training course? My nephew has been asking me about NZ flying schools and Massey in particular. I was going to suggest Ardmore, but I think things have changed a lot there since back in my day. His communication with massey suggests they might have an airline internship programme (I cast my doubts...), the fancy degree, and cpl with atpl theory after a long three years.
Any info or other flight school suggestions much appreciated
coco
Any info or other flight school suggestions much appreciated
coco
It depends what you want out of it. In terms of the flying training itself its really no different to anywhere else.
There is plenty of info on Massey University - Aviation Home but to 'shed some light for you' The Degree is a 4 year one condensed into 3 years:
Year 1: PPL-CPL Navigation
Year 2: CPL-IF-MEIR
Year 3: Instructor Course or Selection of Papers that can be completed extramurally
A lot of people take the latter option in Year 3 so that they can start looking for work or do another Instructor Course elsewhere.
While I didn't do the Instructor Course its a pretty intensive one run by an bloody good A-cat with input from the other bloody good A-cats at the School, it does take longer but it includes a lot more.
After the first 2 years you end up with 170 single engine and 40 hours multi engine with 100 hours PIC as the course is approved by CAA for the lower PIC. All the ATPL theory is complete along with a BGT rating (which must be activated with 3 starts). The degree obviously adds more stuff than what you would normally cover elsewhere and it can be a pretty high workload at times (not necessarily a bad thing, but it does make part-time work difficult).
Its fully integrated so you do need to make the commitment to see at least the first 2 years through. This will not be for everyone.
This personally worked for me, as I am very interested in the industry aside from just working in it and it opens the door for further study at a Postgraduate level.
And believe it or not Palmy isn't that bad, in fact sometimes I even miss it!
Cheers,
058
There is plenty of info on Massey University - Aviation Home but to 'shed some light for you' The Degree is a 4 year one condensed into 3 years:
Year 1: PPL-CPL Navigation
Year 2: CPL-IF-MEIR
Year 3: Instructor Course or Selection of Papers that can be completed extramurally
A lot of people take the latter option in Year 3 so that they can start looking for work or do another Instructor Course elsewhere.
While I didn't do the Instructor Course its a pretty intensive one run by an bloody good A-cat with input from the other bloody good A-cats at the School, it does take longer but it includes a lot more.
After the first 2 years you end up with 170 single engine and 40 hours multi engine with 100 hours PIC as the course is approved by CAA for the lower PIC. All the ATPL theory is complete along with a BGT rating (which must be activated with 3 starts). The degree obviously adds more stuff than what you would normally cover elsewhere and it can be a pretty high workload at times (not necessarily a bad thing, but it does make part-time work difficult).
Its fully integrated so you do need to make the commitment to see at least the first 2 years through. This will not be for everyone.
This personally worked for me, as I am very interested in the industry aside from just working in it and it opens the door for further study at a Postgraduate level.
And believe it or not Palmy isn't that bad, in fact sometimes I even miss it!
Cheers,
058
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Massey
I have not regretted my decision to go to Massey at all.
I think it is a structurally sound course and if you put in the effort you will reap the rewards. It is a hard course and you will experience set backs, although this is no different from any other organisation.
I too have been affected by the delays but I am not one to complain all that much as it has been down to factors that life presents. The aviation school itself is constrained by the University itself and would be much better off running as its own college (as apposed to running as part of the college of business).
I have been taught by some of the best lecturers you could ask for when it comes to theory and the content is well above the standard required for ASL exams (hence why you get a degree at the end).
In saying all of this I think it is imperative to get a type rating or two outside of the school at an aero club or the like in order to realise that the Massey way of doing things is not always right and there is a big bad world out there. I found this to be hugely beneficial to remaining in tune with the rest of the GA community out there.
Aside from the course itself Palmy is an ideal training environment with a controlled airport with a wide range of operations. There are numerous uncontrolled aerodromes nearby as well as all types of navigation aids for instrument training. Palmy itself is cheap to live in as a student and everything is close by.
And hey there are some great prospects for the school in the next year or so
~S.E.A.L~
I think it is a structurally sound course and if you put in the effort you will reap the rewards. It is a hard course and you will experience set backs, although this is no different from any other organisation.
I too have been affected by the delays but I am not one to complain all that much as it has been down to factors that life presents. The aviation school itself is constrained by the University itself and would be much better off running as its own college (as apposed to running as part of the college of business).
I have been taught by some of the best lecturers you could ask for when it comes to theory and the content is well above the standard required for ASL exams (hence why you get a degree at the end).
In saying all of this I think it is imperative to get a type rating or two outside of the school at an aero club or the like in order to realise that the Massey way of doing things is not always right and there is a big bad world out there. I found this to be hugely beneficial to remaining in tune with the rest of the GA community out there.
Aside from the course itself Palmy is an ideal training environment with a controlled airport with a wide range of operations. There are numerous uncontrolled aerodromes nearby as well as all types of navigation aids for instrument training. Palmy itself is cheap to live in as a student and everything is close by.
And hey there are some great prospects for the school in the next year or so
~S.E.A.L~
Last edited by S.E.A.L.11; 3rd Mar 2009 at 00:37.
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I went to Massey,but if I had my time again I wouldn't.
If you want a degree - then great, otherwise don't waste your time.
Yes I think there are a few very good lecturers and there were a few decent instructors but I agree wholeheartedly with previous posts, in that management treat you with contempt.
Forget the internship - total crap.
If you want a degree - then great, otherwise don't waste your time.
Yes I think there are a few very good lecturers and there were a few decent instructors but I agree wholeheartedly with previous posts, in that management treat you with contempt.
Forget the internship - total crap.
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Thanks for all the info boys and girls! 
Very interesting indeed. Sounds like any flying organisation, great flying, bad management, and lies.
S.E.A.L.11: "Ah yes there is no internship at the moment and they certainly do not advertise one."
When an interested young chap calls up to find out about the course and is told by the school on the phone that there is an airline internship in place with a large airline, that sounds like advertising to me. I might just call up myself to have a good chuckle at the fibs.
Coco
Very interesting indeed. Sounds like any flying organisation, great flying, bad management, and lies.
S.E.A.L.11: "Ah yes there is no internship at the moment and they certainly do not advertise one."
When an interested young chap calls up to find out about the course and is told by the school on the phone that there is an airline internship in place with a large airline, that sounds like advertising to me. I might just call up myself to have a good chuckle at the fibs.
Coco
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I attended Massey Aviation and completed the degree course- finished up a few years back now. Must say Im not really surprised to read of the same problems still present there.
Sure I have a degree, however if I had my time again I would do it differently.
I think many of these points have been covered, you pretty much summed it up here, "Sounds like any flying organisation, great flying, bad management, and lies", but here are my 2 cents..
Firstly I would get my flight training done elsewhere to save the coin- preferably somewhere that also has a charter operation, as you probably well know he will need all the help and contacts he can get when it comes to finding a job. Not sure if things have changed but I found it a curse to have Massey on my resume when job hunting post grad as Massey had alienated many NZ GA operators.
Secondly if he does wish to earn a degree, my advice would be to do one in an unrelated field. I have often regretted my BAv as I have all my eggs in one basket. What is the BAv really good for? I mean unless you are looking at flying for the short term and perhaps going management later in life, even then a BBS would probably be of more use.
And yes the rubbish talk and promises..ah the memories...
Just calling it how I saw it.
Sure I have a degree, however if I had my time again I would do it differently.
I think many of these points have been covered, you pretty much summed it up here, "Sounds like any flying organisation, great flying, bad management, and lies", but here are my 2 cents..
Firstly I would get my flight training done elsewhere to save the coin- preferably somewhere that also has a charter operation, as you probably well know he will need all the help and contacts he can get when it comes to finding a job. Not sure if things have changed but I found it a curse to have Massey on my resume when job hunting post grad as Massey had alienated many NZ GA operators.
Secondly if he does wish to earn a degree, my advice would be to do one in an unrelated field. I have often regretted my BAv as I have all my eggs in one basket. What is the BAv really good for? I mean unless you are looking at flying for the short term and perhaps going management later in life, even then a BBS would probably be of more use.
And yes the rubbish talk and promises..ah the memories...
Just calling it how I saw it.
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Massey recomended
Being a current student at Massey University i see there are issues, such as a lack of resources, and instructors. however it is new Zealand and also australia wide that every training organization is short on instructors. Speaking with other students in Australia and New zealand everyone is behind the curve and so many, are much much worse than that of Massey. School of aviation at least understand there is an issue and as far as i know are working with mgmt. to help alleviate this issue by such means as taking on smaller class numbers, and implementing programs to see more instructors trained up and retained at the school.
With a proposed fleet replacement in the future its obvious Massey university are preparing for the future and the huge demand that the training industry is going to experience.
Flying kiwi1, 7 months behind in training is a lot, but speak to any medium sized to large training schools and you will find such figures as 10 month delays and schools not being able to cope with demand.
Coconut there are lot of negatives to Massey but to the same degree of any other flying organisation. the hold up is primarily at the multi engine stage, with all single engine flying being pretty much on time. another diserning factor is the weather in palmerston north which can cause some delays. I have worked my arse off for my degree and as my training comes to an end i WOULD recommend the university to anybody.
With a proposed fleet replacement in the future its obvious Massey university are preparing for the future and the huge demand that the training industry is going to experience.
Flying kiwi1, 7 months behind in training is a lot, but speak to any medium sized to large training schools and you will find such figures as 10 month delays and schools not being able to cope with demand.
Coconut there are lot of negatives to Massey but to the same degree of any other flying organisation. the hold up is primarily at the multi engine stage, with all single engine flying being pretty much on time. another diserning factor is the weather in palmerston north which can cause some delays. I have worked my arse off for my degree and as my training comes to an end i WOULD recommend the university to anybody.
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There was a Massey-Garuda internship in the mid 90's - a couple of batches of grads were sent onto 737's, but that one has been dead and buried for 10 years or more . Ever since then there have been rumours about an 'upcoming internship program', but I'd take them with a grain of salt.
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Speedi
SPEEDI:
good to see you are enjoying your course, what are you now? Msy50s?
see how many of you at the end get CPLs?
as a young chap looking for a flying school like above, i am not saying that he is not good enough to pass all his subjects on schedual. but if you are scraping by most classes, you better watch out. may be one day you wont be that lucky and end up having 69% twice in a roll on some aviation management paper that have nothing to do with flying planes, i doubt you will still say the same.
employment aside. just sad to see young and ambious people get their dreams crushed by the school. if you cant fly, fair enough, take another profession and earn some real money.
ask the instructors when they are pissed (if they have developed their social skills in the past 3 years of full time 24/7 study), are they enjoying it? make sure end that question with "REALLY?".
good to see you are enjoying your course, what are you now? Msy50s?
see how many of you at the end get CPLs?
as a young chap looking for a flying school like above, i am not saying that he is not good enough to pass all his subjects on schedual. but if you are scraping by most classes, you better watch out. may be one day you wont be that lucky and end up having 69% twice in a roll on some aviation management paper that have nothing to do with flying planes, i doubt you will still say the same.
employment aside. just sad to see young and ambious people get their dreams crushed by the school. if you cant fly, fair enough, take another profession and earn some real money.
ask the instructors when they are pissed (if they have developed their social skills in the past 3 years of full time 24/7 study), are they enjoying it? make sure end that question with "REALLY?".
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SPEEDI: "the hold up is primarily at the multi engine stage, with all single engine flying being pretty much on time."
Backlogs during the multi phase are a common delay for quite a few flight schools. What's masseys excuse; aircraft? Instructors? Do they only approve the top B cats and A's to teach multi? If this is a problem, why not get C cats (who can legally teach multi) onto multi instructing too? I assume most C cats are Massey trained and should therefore hold associated ratings, except maybe a ME instructors rating?
Just a thought, as I have seen this at some organisations where the CFI and management will only select the top cream of the B Cats and A cats to teach multi to students, yet complain they are short of multi instructors to clear backlog. In most cases, the main reason why some organisations do this is to hold on to their instructors as long as they can...no multi, no moving on to bigger jobs. Is this the case at massey?
There are other organisations which allow 'proficient' C cats and lower B cats to also teach multi, and it seems to efficiently clear multi phases. I'm sure there are some capable C cats around NZ. What are the massey C cats like?
Cheers,
Coco
Backlogs during the multi phase are a common delay for quite a few flight schools. What's masseys excuse; aircraft? Instructors? Do they only approve the top B cats and A's to teach multi? If this is a problem, why not get C cats (who can legally teach multi) onto multi instructing too? I assume most C cats are Massey trained and should therefore hold associated ratings, except maybe a ME instructors rating?
Just a thought, as I have seen this at some organisations where the CFI and management will only select the top cream of the B Cats and A cats to teach multi to students, yet complain they are short of multi instructors to clear backlog. In most cases, the main reason why some organisations do this is to hold on to their instructors as long as they can...no multi, no moving on to bigger jobs. Is this the case at massey?
There are other organisations which allow 'proficient' C cats and lower B cats to also teach multi, and it seems to efficiently clear multi phases. I'm sure there are some capable C cats around NZ. What are the massey C cats like?
Cheers,
Coco
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I think it goes ".....blah-blah-blah, it's the equivilance deal with the CAA blah-blah-blah, it's in the CEA...yaddya-yaddya..."
I know of a C-Cat under direct supervision who is teaching multi in the Manawatu region, it can be done
I know of a C-Cat under direct supervision who is teaching multi in the Manawatu region, it can be done
Multi delays
Historically the delay in the multi stage has been much less about Instructors and more about serviceability. The Seneca V is a beautiful aeroplane but not particularly suited to the rigours of training and as such spends a lot of time in the hangar.
Amazingly even with all the downtime we experienced with them we still seemed to have a better serviceability rate than Southern China in Perth with their V's.
058
Amazingly even with all the downtime we experienced with them we still seemed to have a better serviceability rate than Southern China in Perth with their V's.
058
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MSY058 thats down to the incredible work done by the in house Fieldair engineers...top blokes who do a great job!
50cent - Speedi has passed all neccesary papers and has got through the bulk of the degree unscathed.
I concur with the comments that the delays are like any other flying school in the region. Its a part of the industry at the moment and I dont think you will find one flight school where everyone is less than a month behind schedule.
50cent - Speedi has passed all neccesary papers and has got through the bulk of the degree unscathed.
I concur with the comments that the delays are like any other flying school in the region. Its a part of the industry at the moment and I dont think you will find one flight school where everyone is less than a month behind schedule.
Last edited by S.E.A.L.11; 3rd Mar 2009 at 00:39. Reason: Removed response to false information