Massey University Flying School
Was a student there as the name suggests and then worked there but now work overseas.
Nothing new covered here really, the pros and cons have to be weighed up and people have different experiences. The search will reveal my general experience - not all positive thats for sure.
flyinkiwi10 is right on the money with instructor availability and resource allocation it was and I would imagine still is a very real issue but by no means exclusive to Massey.
While the Duty Instructor concept in its current form may not be perfect especially because it takes a flying 'asset' out of circulation it is a valuable safety measure and would certainly detract from safety and any potential urgency/emergency situation if that Duty Instructor was allowed to fly away from base as used to happen in times gone by. Also if there is no Duty Instructor around it can be an absolute nightmare to get a solo student signed out with obvious effect on the schedule.
058
Nothing new covered here really, the pros and cons have to be weighed up and people have different experiences. The search will reveal my general experience - not all positive thats for sure.
flyinkiwi10 is right on the money with instructor availability and resource allocation it was and I would imagine still is a very real issue but by no means exclusive to Massey.
While the Duty Instructor concept in its current form may not be perfect especially because it takes a flying 'asset' out of circulation it is a valuable safety measure and would certainly detract from safety and any potential urgency/emergency situation if that Duty Instructor was allowed to fly away from base as used to happen in times gone by. Also if there is no Duty Instructor around it can be an absolute nightmare to get a solo student signed out with obvious effect on the schedule.
058
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Coconut, massey is in a building stage and if they were to train up there only 3 C cat flight instructors what would b the reason? when there are more B cats to be pushed through th multi trainign. the C cats could be used more effectively (not wasting time on Multi trainign) to move students to CPL handling. Massey is consistently investing in there instructors paying for there trainign and flight tests not to mention getting to learn from 4 of the most senior A cats in teh country, (including last years instructor of the year)
Delays cant b soley blamed on the flying school, how about student availability? students work, have families and obviously cant dedicate 7 days a week to overcome such issues as weather and resources, however Massey strongly recomends to finish on time, u should make urself readily available and students just cant do it. Massey is open 7 days a week pretty much 350 days a year, to students.
Flyingkiwi1 assumptions are the mother of all F-ups, ur assumption that only 2 are going through the instructor course are quite incorrect from what ive heard those that were succesful in gaining placement into the instructor course received letters of confirmation "a legal contract" stipulating that they have to take them into the 09 instructor course therefore by only sending 2 instead of the "contracted" 4 this would cause a huge legal debate betrween the parties. the reason for taking 4 would also come down to a resource issue. with a lack of resources Massey have decided on pushing through the single engine students and only brinign 4 into the flight instructor course which in my opinion is a better idea than bringiong on 10+ "possible" instructors and wasting the resources on them. why bring on 10 or more average wannabe instructors when only 5 or 6 will complete it succesfully.
it is a wise move on Masseys behalf and alongside the proposed new fleet (which will increase the current fleet size by 50%) they are working towards repairing the backlog theyre experiencing.
I agree a plan shouldve been implemented earlier on but every flying school is guilty of not implemetning a plan earlier and Massey is one of them, but least they are now on top of the issue and i see them succeeding through the years above any other medium to large flying school.
Delays cant b soley blamed on the flying school, how about student availability? students work, have families and obviously cant dedicate 7 days a week to overcome such issues as weather and resources, however Massey strongly recomends to finish on time, u should make urself readily available and students just cant do it. Massey is open 7 days a week pretty much 350 days a year, to students.
Flyingkiwi1 assumptions are the mother of all F-ups, ur assumption that only 2 are going through the instructor course are quite incorrect from what ive heard those that were succesful in gaining placement into the instructor course received letters of confirmation "a legal contract" stipulating that they have to take them into the 09 instructor course therefore by only sending 2 instead of the "contracted" 4 this would cause a huge legal debate betrween the parties. the reason for taking 4 would also come down to a resource issue. with a lack of resources Massey have decided on pushing through the single engine students and only brinign 4 into the flight instructor course which in my opinion is a better idea than bringiong on 10+ "possible" instructors and wasting the resources on them. why bring on 10 or more average wannabe instructors when only 5 or 6 will complete it succesfully.
it is a wise move on Masseys behalf and alongside the proposed new fleet (which will increase the current fleet size by 50%) they are working towards repairing the backlog theyre experiencing.
I agree a plan shouldve been implemented earlier on but every flying school is guilty of not implemetning a plan earlier and Massey is one of them, but least they are now on top of the issue and i see them succeeding through the years above any other medium to large flying school.
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Oh yeah and another innaccuarcy of flyingkiwi1s previous comment there are actually 3 A cats and 4 B cats flying multi, with another great b cat well on there way to being a multi ifr instructor.
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"why bring on 10 or more average wannabe instructors when only 5 or 6 will complete it succesfully"
thats some discrimniation right here. why 4 or 5 wont complete the instructors course?i know c cat is hard but it is not so hard that 50% of the trainee instructors can not be successful.
oh right, SPEEDI is a ace top gun, same as M058, average joes like myself are not good enough for your group and we are not cut to be instructors, how could you say that, what makes you so arrogant?
so get that trophy with your name on it, and see if you have any luck at the aeroclub with the ladies
thats some discrimniation right here. why 4 or 5 wont complete the instructors course?i know c cat is hard but it is not so hard that 50% of the trainee instructors can not be successful.
oh right, SPEEDI is a ace top gun, same as M058, average joes like myself are not good enough for your group and we are not cut to be instructors, how could you say that, what makes you so arrogant?
so get that trophy with your name on it, and see if you have any luck at the aeroclub with the ladies
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Want some discrimination call up CAA and ask em what the general success rate is before you come on here and start acusing me of discrimination, yes it is hard, yes the success rate is actually 60%.
As for me, you dont anything about me, i never mentioned i was a top gun, i didnt mention i was in an elite group of pilots, this makes U the arrogant one for making these asumptions, who even mentioned that i wanted to be an instructor? i understand where your coming from but the numbers dont lie and no im not arrogant im still learning just like you (by the sounds of it). hahaha and i personally know M058 is and he is the most modest nicest guy you'll ever meet. so before you post think before u make wild allegations or assumptions. good luck with the ladies champ.
As for me, you dont anything about me, i never mentioned i was a top gun, i didnt mention i was in an elite group of pilots, this makes U the arrogant one for making these asumptions, who even mentioned that i wanted to be an instructor? i understand where your coming from but the numbers dont lie and no im not arrogant im still learning just like you (by the sounds of it). hahaha and i personally know M058 is and he is the most modest nicest guy you'll ever meet. so before you post think before u make wild allegations or assumptions. good luck with the ladies champ.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Hmmm.....
Fiddy cent, whilst Massey058 may not be able to handle his alcohol very well and has a rather dubious dress sense, I at no time have heard him making proclamations as to his ace-like status as an aviator either here or after a few too many Heinekens (if there is such as thing as too many Heinekens). Pull your head in ya peanut.
Well looks like I'll be buying SPEEDI a few beers when I come back to the country for being far too nice.
How neat that the thread has now been reduced to the fact that I wore a vest once and own orange shoes.
You know I thought full deflection on the ILS was perfectly acceptable, I haven't hit anything yet and I do try and keep the engine spooled up so when I get too close to the trees I can get away from the bloody things. Thats of course assuming I don't notice the little man in the roof lining yelling TERRAIN TERRAIN, he's awfully incessant you know.
I jest of course, I'm not that bad but one thing that Massey didn't teach me was over-confidence in my abilities (in fact I blame my parents more than Massey). Maybe thats a bad thing because there is a happy medium to be found I'm sure.
How neat that the thread has now been reduced to the fact that I wore a vest once and own orange shoes.
You know I thought full deflection on the ILS was perfectly acceptable, I haven't hit anything yet and I do try and keep the engine spooled up so when I get too close to the trees I can get away from the bloody things. Thats of course assuming I don't notice the little man in the roof lining yelling TERRAIN TERRAIN, he's awfully incessant you know.
I jest of course, I'm not that bad but one thing that Massey didn't teach me was over-confidence in my abilities (in fact I blame my parents more than Massey). Maybe thats a bad thing because there is a happy medium to be found I'm sure.
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Well at least Airways have seen sense and are now allowing ILS's at uncontrolled aerodromes (ie OH&WP after hours and on the weekends). This should help expedite things eh? Excellent...now this family goes into a talent agency and the father says "Have I got the act for you"............
Wtf?
How can you have a 60% success rate? ASL exams and flight tests aren't rocket science and neither is university. So is it a reflection of the (wanabee) pilots enrolling there?
How can you have a 60% success rate? ASL exams and flight tests aren't rocket science and neither is university. So is it a reflection of the (wanabee) pilots enrolling there?
Massey:
Hawkes Bay:
Go to any of the other regular providers and pull your finger out. After 2 years you can have been working as an instructor for one year and already out of (direct) supervision.
After three years you should already have two years of income back in your pocket, a B-Cat, and likely be flying Chieftains somewhere.
Some classes are still trying to finish the flying 7 months after their official finish date (it was supposed to take two years).
After the first 2 years you end up with 170 single engine and 40 hours multi engine with 100 hours PIC
3 years and graduate with C-Cat and 700 hours
After three years you should already have two years of income back in your pocket, a B-Cat, and likely be flying Chieftains somewhere.
Um, no.
Dreaming if at Massey, by the sounds of it.
I admittedly left NZ and moved to OZ after the 2nd year (1 year of instructing), but got there, and I know of two others at least that have managed it (out of the small group of that I know!). One fella got in to Eagle within a few months of the 3 year mark (from the start of ab-initio training).
The point is, that a dedicated student at the right school can go from start to CPL, instructor, and M/E IFR within 12 months. Thats without coming in on Saturdays or Sundays, either. To plan for 2 years and be delayed to nearly 3 puts a student a long way behind in his/her new career.
Dreaming if at Massey, by the sounds of it.
I admittedly left NZ and moved to OZ after the 2nd year (1 year of instructing), but got there, and I know of two others at least that have managed it (out of the small group of that I know!). One fella got in to Eagle within a few months of the 3 year mark (from the start of ab-initio training).
The point is, that a dedicated student at the right school can go from start to CPL, instructor, and M/E IFR within 12 months. Thats without coming in on Saturdays or Sundays, either. To plan for 2 years and be delayed to nearly 3 puts a student a long way behind in his/her new career.
glekichi
You like myself needed to go overseas in order to get things moving. Yes there are people who can get into a piston twin job 3 years from start of training but that is definitely the exception rather than the rule. Certainly its best not to sell people on the idea that they will find a job no problem in NZ.
On top of that the market at the time obviously has a big influence and we have just come off what was a reasonable lack of supply only to be crushed by the current global economic situation. We all know the ebbs and flows of the aviation market, so if you can time it right - lucky you.
On the EIT course it does seem to be quite good, one of they guys here where I work went through it and I know a few others from there who are in Eagle now, wasn't within 3 years mind and I don't know if all of them ended up with 700 hours before leaving.
Horses for courses of course, of course, of course. Massey, EIT etc take longer because there is more than just standard flying training. That's the choice that people need to make and maybe far too many people make the wrong choice and thats unfortunate but they can always come to this forum beforehand and get completely confused
.
At the end of the day for a small country NZ is quite fortunate to have quite a wide range of training organisations and even though there is the small-minded bickering and insults I don't think any of them bar maybe some of the places doing training for foreign contracts are 'bad'. You just have to decide:
* What time frame you can afford
* What you want to achieve
* Where you want to live while doing it
* How you can afford it
* How you can afford to live while doing it
058
I admittedly left NZ and moved to OZ after the 2nd year (1 year of instructing), but got there, and I know of two others at least that have managed it (out of the small group of that I know!). One fella got in to Eagle within a few months of the 3 year mark (from the start of ab-initio training)
On top of that the market at the time obviously has a big influence and we have just come off what was a reasonable lack of supply only to be crushed by the current global economic situation. We all know the ebbs and flows of the aviation market, so if you can time it right - lucky you.
On the EIT course it does seem to be quite good, one of they guys here where I work went through it and I know a few others from there who are in Eagle now, wasn't within 3 years mind and I don't know if all of them ended up with 700 hours before leaving.
Horses for courses of course, of course, of course. Massey, EIT etc take longer because there is more than just standard flying training. That's the choice that people need to make and maybe far too many people make the wrong choice and thats unfortunate but they can always come to this forum beforehand and get completely confused
.At the end of the day for a small country NZ is quite fortunate to have quite a wide range of training organisations and even though there is the small-minded bickering and insults I don't think any of them bar maybe some of the places doing training for foreign contracts are 'bad'. You just have to decide:
* What time frame you can afford
* What you want to achieve
* Where you want to live while doing it
* How you can afford it
* How you can afford to live while doing it
058
Fair enough re horses n courses Massey058. Not going to argue with you at all on the jobs situation, either. However, it doesn't matter if one ends up in Eagle, overseas, or flying singles somewhere in NZ - regardless, there is a lot of experience to be gained in that 1-2 years, and money to be earned also.
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I don't understand why everyone gets so petty and personal over training organisations! Different organisations offer different types of training, some are fast, others take longer and are more intense. It depends what you want out of your training
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Well I feel I am highly qualified to contribute... given that I was at the school for a 1/2 year course (that took a year) about 9 years ago 
My only complaint at the time was that the people on my course were treated a bit like 2nd class citizens... lower priority for aircraft, resources, instructors etc. than the guys on the degree courses.
The fleet was pretty solid... mainly Piper Warrior III's which I have to say were kept in good nick, a couple of funny french things and the twins... Oh and the big Chieftain that always seemed to be missing at least one engine
To be honest, I had no real issues with the administration... they seemed friendly enough and I would have rated them somewhere above IRD and below an average hotel concierge in terms of helpfulness.
The students on the other hand were another story, but I have been told things have changed quite a bit since the 'Sky Gods' days... and, these days, most of the Massey guys I run into at various airfields seem pretty decent and without the top gun attitude.
Talking with a few people who have been there in recent times, it would appear that things have improved in some ways since I was there... Just a shame that in NZ, a bad reputation seems VERY hard to shake... and people don't seem to subscribe to the 2nd Chance system...
My only complaint at the time was that the people on my course were treated a bit like 2nd class citizens... lower priority for aircraft, resources, instructors etc. than the guys on the degree courses.
The fleet was pretty solid... mainly Piper Warrior III's which I have to say were kept in good nick, a couple of funny french things and the twins... Oh and the big Chieftain that always seemed to be missing at least one engine
To be honest, I had no real issues with the administration... they seemed friendly enough and I would have rated them somewhere above IRD and below an average hotel concierge in terms of helpfulness.
The students on the other hand were another story, but I have been told things have changed quite a bit since the 'Sky Gods' days... and, these days, most of the Massey guys I run into at various airfields seem pretty decent and without the top gun attitude.
Talking with a few people who have been there in recent times, it would appear that things have improved in some ways since I was there... Just a shame that in NZ, a bad reputation seems VERY hard to shake... and people don't seem to subscribe to the 2nd Chance system...
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Another Massey thread....
Degrees can be very helpful when it comes time to get into the likes of Air NZ etc, in terms of a first job, which is really just as critical, employers dont really care too much in GA. Having been involved with employing pilots I can tell you its like any other profession, Attitude and ability count for more. Every pilot has the same basic qualifications to operate an aircraft, a licence and a pulse, whether they trained at the local aeroclub or one of the space academies throughout NZ.
Its no secret that Massey has a pretty crap rep in NZ. However most schools in NZ of a similar size are no better, if not worse, but they dont seem to have the same problem with reputation?
Nelson aviation College, New Plymouth Aeroclub would be my recommendations. All a little off the beaten track but you'll find alot more of there past students in the system than other schools.
Degrees can be very helpful when it comes time to get into the likes of Air NZ etc, in terms of a first job, which is really just as critical, employers dont really care too much in GA. Having been involved with employing pilots I can tell you its like any other profession, Attitude and ability count for more. Every pilot has the same basic qualifications to operate an aircraft, a licence and a pulse, whether they trained at the local aeroclub or one of the space academies throughout NZ.
Its no secret that Massey has a pretty crap rep in NZ. However most schools in NZ of a similar size are no better, if not worse, but they dont seem to have the same problem with reputation?
Nelson aviation College, New Plymouth Aeroclub would be my recommendations. All a little off the beaten track but you'll find alot more of there past students in the system than other schools.