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Was the Nomad really that bad?

Old 10th Jan 2009, 02:21
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Was the Nomad really that bad?

Just like to get some feed back from those that have experienced it. This thread is inspired by Chimbu Warrior who said that the Harbin Y-12 made the Nomad look like cutting edge technology.
I remember some of the accidents, the four corners publicity and Army pilots refusing to fly it.
To those who have been there, tell us how you really feel about this aircraft and what you think about its coming back.
Cheers,
DW.
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Old 10th Jan 2009, 03:34
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N22 not too bad, N24 not so good.

Fuel gauges (4 off) with a face the size of a 5 cent piece.

Some instrument gauges had 1/4 increments, others 1/5.

Sharp edges every where, so skinned knuckles were the norm.

N22 had infinite flap selections available from 0 to 40 degrees. N24 was known to be longitudinally unstable about the Flap 20 range, therefore only 3 flap positions, 0, 10 for take-off and 40 for landing. However in about 1994/5 after another airworthiness scare, the aircraft (N24) was limited to Flap 10, which gave a very small speed margin when flying an approach in bumpy conditions. Flap 10 max speed being only just above Vapp.

Last edited by Capt Claret; 10th Jan 2009 at 06:53. Reason: don't think there was a flap 5, changed to Flap 10.
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Old 10th Jan 2009, 03:57
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Blackhawks

The Nomad was apparently ok until the blackhawk became available, then it became unsafe for military pilots.
Civilians can fly them ok.
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Old 10th Jan 2009, 04:05
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Good enough fer government work.
Some young lady is restoring one up at the old Gardens museum if anyone is interested.
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Old 10th Jan 2009, 04:10
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Currently flying the N24, its not a STO machine, but does the L pretty good! We've got the new flap Mod which allows us to use full flap again, instead of none or 10 degrees.

We have had no problems in operating them over the last 24 years, as long as they are maintained and operated as the manufacturer specified. We had one aircraft that performed a scheduled run on behalf of Air NZ, and had better reliability than the Metro/Saab that also performed the run.

Certainly having the enhanced B17 on board greatly improves the hot & high performance, with an OAT close to 30 degrees C at 2500' AMSL, we can easily get full rated power out the engines, the other without the enhanced turbines seems to run out of puff with those conditions. Plus the added bonus is the fuel consumption with two engines is less than the C208B. Maintenance is also cheaper than the C208B too.

The NG N24 which Gippsland Aero are developing would be a great machine!
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Old 10th Jan 2009, 04:15
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After a little bit of research recently, I would have to agree with you there empacher48. talking about cost efficiency and capability.
I'm not sure about it from a pilots view as I have only flown the van and not the Nomad. keen to fly the nomad though.
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Old 10th Jan 2009, 07:40
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They were unsafe for the army to fly, but didn't they crosshire a civilian one in to use as for parachute duties?
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Old 10th Jan 2009, 07:42
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Originally Posted by the wizard of aus
I'm not sure about it from a pilots view as I have only flown the van and not the Nomad. keen to fly the nomad though
I'll be honest and say the Nomad was the easiest twin I've flown, for a single pilot operation IFR or VFR, it is has a lot of simple systems to use. Being able to use full flap is fantastic - much more stable in the approach than the 10 degrees we were limited to. 65 knots in the flare in the ol' gal is a lot better than 90kts+ at MLW!

It will be a really really good addition to the Airvan, and with the changes to the Nomad which GA will make, it will be a lot better than the originals I fly. Plus the product support GA are going to provide (based on how they have been with our Airvans) it will certainly be a winner!
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Old 10th Jan 2009, 09:03
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Skydived out of one down Picton way about 14 years ago.
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Old 10th Jan 2009, 11:37
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Bushy
Maybe it had a bit more to do with two fatal accidents that killed 5 Aircrew?
I've also seen the photos and spoken to the pilots of the ADF Nomad with the twisted wing spar at Tindal.
I recall I think from the 4 Corners report the designer of it I think it was saying about the pilot concerns in the early days about the aircraft. His response was words to the effect of you don't listen to what pilots say about aircraft 'issues'.
But A - B, I'm sure it was a fine aircraft. The ten hours I had in it were certainly 'interesting'.
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Old 10th Jan 2009, 12:39
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I also remember the designer saying that pilots were unqualified to comment on design or something like that.
I just began flying a new C208B with G1000 set up. Interesting to hear that the N24 is more efficient.
The Caravan has had some harsh critics here. Mainly due to icing, but we now have the TKS, weeping wing. Also seems like most of the PT6 failures are in countries where you would expect average mx, at least thats what I am going to believe when I am flying accross a short stretch of ocean in winter. Then again, flying a 30 year old 402 with ten people... only flown it on one donk at light weights.
We have one guy here who flew nomads in the USA and had nothing good to say.
Jack Thompson did a doco a few years back on the testing of the Nomad, was a pretty good show.
Thanks for the replies. Looking forward to seeing the new Nomad.
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Old 10th Jan 2009, 12:56
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I've flown both the N22 and N24 and can honestly say it is the worst aircraft and the most dangerous I have ever flown. I hope the new version never gets further then a dream......
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Old 10th Jan 2009, 18:16
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What else have you flown?? A C172??
 
Old 11th Jan 2009, 01:48
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Yes! and in no particular order:
C150, C152, C180, C182, C185, C206, C207, C208, C210, C402, PA32, Pawnee, Agcat, Agwagon, Maule M4, M5, Beagle Airdale, Turbo Commander, B36, B55, B58, B200, MU2, Bae31,32 and 42, F27 F50, F100, A320, A321, A330, B747, B744
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Old 11th Jan 2009, 02:25
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Yes! and in no particular order: C150, C152, C180, C182, C185, C206, C207, C208, C210, C402, PA32, Pawnee, Agcat, Agwagon, Maule M4, M5, Beagle Airdale, Turbo Commander, B36, B55, B58, B200, MU2, Bae31,32 and 42, F27 F50, F100, A320, A321, A330, B747, B744
That would seem to be an invitation for a smartarse crack about needing to fly a BE35 to round out your expereince, but I am reluctant to use the words Bonanza and Nomad in the same sentence.

A few years I took part in a SAR exercise were I had the opportunity to talk to a highly experienced ADF accident investigator. To say he hated the Nomad with a vengence would be putting it mildly!

Dr
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Old 11th Jan 2009, 02:30
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Only the brave would admit to having flown the Airdale

FTDK, the "highly experienced ADF accident investigator" wouldn't have had a surname of a caffiene (or free) rich drink made with beans by any chance.
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Old 11th Jan 2009, 02:50
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A very poorly designed and constructed piece of junk.Best left in the history books as a failure.

The Dog
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Old 11th Jan 2009, 05:03
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prospector,

next question!
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Old 11th Jan 2009, 05:12
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Nomad

Just luv the character assassinations that occur on this forum! I managed to achieve 1000+ hrs in the " go anywhere, can't see me, twin engined, executive transport module " - otherwise known as a military Nomad.

Some good characteristics, some not-so-good characteristics. Within reason it would land on nothing, but you needed a hydraulic jack to become airborne again - 'specially when conditions were "hot'n high".

For a balanced overview I strongly recommend the article by Glen Duus on the Fourays site. www.fourays.org/features

Personally, I wish GA the best of luck with their Nomad recreation. I hope to get another Vat of 58KIAS in one of our Company's optioned machines.

AR
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Old 11th Jan 2009, 06:50
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Capt Vin Rouge

next question!

"I've flown both the N22 and N24 and can honestly say it is the worst aircraft and the most dangerous I have ever flown."

I operated an N22 for three years on many different ops, quite happily as it happens, and so did many other aeroplane drivers, for much longer periods.

Some were not overly impressed, but I have never heard it described as dangerous before, and from one who has so many types, as stated on PPRuNe, makes me feel quite humble to have survived such a time in such a dangerous aircraft.
 

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