Merged: Aircraft midair in Bankstown area
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The Liberty fared a lot better:
Two die as plane hits home in Casula after mid-air crash | The Daily Telegraph
THE two pilots killed when a plane spiralled into a Sydney home following a mid-air smash were both women, it has emerged.
It is believed the pair were both aged in their late 20s.
The revelation came as the family which escaped - with their newborn baby - spoke out about their terror.
The pilot and co-pilot were killed instantly when their single-engine Cessna 152 burst into flames on impact, moments after colliding with another aircraft over Casula about 11.30am.
A student pilot and instructor aboard the second plane - a single-engine Liberty XL 2 - managed to fly from the scene and land safely at Bankstown Airport, where they were treated for shock by paramedics.
Di
Two die as plane hits home in Casula after mid-air crash | The Daily Telegraph
THE two pilots killed when a plane spiralled into a Sydney home following a mid-air smash were both women, it has emerged.
It is believed the pair were both aged in their late 20s.
The revelation came as the family which escaped - with their newborn baby - spoke out about their terror.
The pilot and co-pilot were killed instantly when their single-engine Cessna 152 burst into flames on impact, moments after colliding with another aircraft over Casula about 11.30am.
A student pilot and instructor aboard the second plane - a single-engine Liberty XL 2 - managed to fly from the scene and land safely at Bankstown Airport, where they were treated for shock by paramedics.
Di
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a tragedy no doubt, but certainly not grounds for closing an airport. I once again ask how many car accidents were had just Today in Australia?.
Are we going to have a major crack down on the road rules and start demanding the closure of highways?. I think not.
We need aviation, same as we need cars. noone goes out with the intention of killing them self's, but aviation is inherently dangerous due to its nature, as is driving along freeways. we minimize risk at every opportunity, but accidents wiil continue to happen as long as there are aircraft in the air and cars on the road.
get used to it, and move on. Its a fact of life.
Are we going to have a major crack down on the road rules and start demanding the closure of highways?. I think not.
We need aviation, same as we need cars. noone goes out with the intention of killing them self's, but aviation is inherently dangerous due to its nature, as is driving along freeways. we minimize risk at every opportunity, but accidents wiil continue to happen as long as there are aircraft in the air and cars on the road.
get used to it, and move on. Its a fact of life.
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Duty of Care?
Wonder if some really smart SC could clean out the developers for closing Hoxton etc for mere money, further concentrating the aircraft density @ BK.
Interesting legal ramifications if it was won and comprehensively.
Just playing devils advocate here of course.
Interesting legal ramifications if it was won and comprehensively.
Just playing devils advocate here of course.
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Hmm, burst into flames on impact. Typical journo, anything to sensationalise. I cant see ANY evidence of a fire at all. The blue plastic they were using to waterproof the extension is perfectly intact.
Just hope it WAS quick and they didnt suffer.RIP.
Just hope it WAS quick and they didnt suffer.RIP.
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So either the new born baby helped in the interview or was actually in the aircraft when they escaped. That being the case, I doubt it was a flight test.
Could just be an added twist to the reporting though.......anything is possible.
certainly doesnt seem to be any evidence of fire in the pictures I have seen.
Could just be an added twist to the reporting though.......anything is possible.
certainly doesnt seem to be any evidence of fire in the pictures I have seen.
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So either the new born baby helped in the interview or was actually in the aircraft when they escaped
RIP
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I just saw a news break on 7 and "Experts" are already "Calling" for flight training to be moved away from Bankstown.
3 hours must be a new record.
My condolences to all the Basair crew.
3 hours must be a new record.
My condolences to all the Basair crew.
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Confusion at 2RN Inbound to YSBK RWY 11 active
Another sad day, and an event that should not happen. My sympathies to all involved.
I had some anxious moments arriving over 2RN in the afternoon last September, when a twin reported 2RN inbound when I was exactly over the top and about to key my inbound call. After lots of head twisting looking for an aircraft at 2RN, it was really a twin about 2 miles to the S who called inbound early.
Now if someone calls 2RN that's exactly where they should be. It could be a fatal mistake to assume that the twin sighted to the S was the one calling over 2RN, because if it wasn't and there really was another twin at 2RN I could have ended my flying days in someone's backyard in Casula.
Seriously bad airmanship by the guy in the twin - he knew I was there and chose to make a deceptive call to get circuit entry instructions early. BK TWR was so busy I couldn't announce inbound until almost over the lake, and I was over-transmitted by another aircraft inbound from Prospect who became conflicting traffic for 11R, so I was given 11C.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but one thing I will assume is that BK TWR is able to see local traffic on radar - there needs to be some thought given to whether they can give advisories to avoid the sad event that happened today.
I had some anxious moments arriving over 2RN in the afternoon last September, when a twin reported 2RN inbound when I was exactly over the top and about to key my inbound call. After lots of head twisting looking for an aircraft at 2RN, it was really a twin about 2 miles to the S who called inbound early.
Now if someone calls 2RN that's exactly where they should be. It could be a fatal mistake to assume that the twin sighted to the S was the one calling over 2RN, because if it wasn't and there really was another twin at 2RN I could have ended my flying days in someone's backyard in Casula.
Seriously bad airmanship by the guy in the twin - he knew I was there and chose to make a deceptive call to get circuit entry instructions early. BK TWR was so busy I couldn't announce inbound until almost over the lake, and I was over-transmitted by another aircraft inbound from Prospect who became conflicting traffic for 11R, so I was given 11C.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but one thing I will assume is that BK TWR is able to see local traffic on radar - there needs to be some thought given to whether they can give advisories to avoid the sad event that happened today.
SMH says the instructor in the Liberty is 89 years old.
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Ah, the baby was in the house.That would certainly make more sense. and a terrifying ordeal for the occupants of the house no doubt.
89 year old Liberty?????? wow thats far older than the average GA fleet aircraft.
there really should be a qualification you have to pass before reporting aviation in the media. 
89 year old Liberty?????? wow thats far older than the average GA fleet aircraft.
there really should be a qualification you have to pass before reporting aviation in the media.
Wizard of Auz, you state:
You have completely misunderstood what I have said. To actually direct aircraft at one of the busiest airports in Australia to two reporting points (viz 2RN and Prospect) is the height of stupidity. To direct VFR aircraft to any single point is risky. See my Unsafe Skies document here in relation to Hornsby.
I have just phoned John King of the King Flight Schools, and he confirmed with me that nowhere in the USA do they have “reporting points” for general aviation aircraft to all track to (and no doubt collide) on the way in to a Class D or C airport.
Let’s look at the ridiculous Prospect situation. An aircraft flying down the light aircraft lane from Brooklyn. Instead of simply calling in (say 4 miles north, or 4 miles northwest) the pilot has to track to Prospect and mix with all of the planes coming in from the west.
It is amazing we haven’t had more accidents because we introduced such a stupid arrangement.
I tried years ago to try to get people to see sense with this. Maybe now after the fatalities, we will be able to move forward and follow the proven overseas system, where VFR and IFR aircraft are not all directed to the same point where the collision risk is increased 100 fold.
I think that as long as aircraft require airstrips, we going to be stuck with that problem Dick.
I have just phoned John King of the King Flight Schools, and he confirmed with me that nowhere in the USA do they have “reporting points” for general aviation aircraft to all track to (and no doubt collide) on the way in to a Class D or C airport.
Let’s look at the ridiculous Prospect situation. An aircraft flying down the light aircraft lane from Brooklyn. Instead of simply calling in (say 4 miles north, or 4 miles northwest) the pilot has to track to Prospect and mix with all of the planes coming in from the west.
It is amazing we haven’t had more accidents because we introduced such a stupid arrangement.
I tried years ago to try to get people to see sense with this. Maybe now after the fatalities, we will be able to move forward and follow the proven overseas system, where VFR and IFR aircraft are not all directed to the same point where the collision risk is increased 100 fold.
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Interesting comments by a witness...
A witness named Michael told 2GB: "I was up watching a plane spinning out of control. I thought it was a model plane ... "Derek Darlow, a former mechanical engineer at Hoxton Park Airport, which closed this Monday, said that the planes were probably coming in to land at Bankstown Airport.
"There is an inbound reporting point in Prestons, which planes have to pass over before they land at Bankstown Airport and the planes were probably passing over that when they clipped each other,'' Mr Darlow said.
"Now that they've closed Hoxton Park Airport, there are fewer places for these planes to land and this sort of thing will be happening more and more often.''
That last statement is sure to provoke panic and paranoia amongst BK residents. Glad to hear the Liberty got home safely, sad to hear the Cessna didn't make it.....
LP
A witness named Michael told 2GB: "I was up watching a plane spinning out of control. I thought it was a model plane ... "Derek Darlow, a former mechanical engineer at Hoxton Park Airport, which closed this Monday, said that the planes were probably coming in to land at Bankstown Airport.
"There is an inbound reporting point in Prestons, which planes have to pass over before they land at Bankstown Airport and the planes were probably passing over that when they clipped each other,'' Mr Darlow said.
"Now that they've closed Hoxton Park Airport, there are fewer places for these planes to land and this sort of thing will be happening more and more often.''
That last statement is sure to provoke panic and paranoia amongst BK residents. Glad to hear the Liberty got home safely, sad to hear the Cessna didn't make it.....
LP
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Dick,
The reporting points do seem a little counter intuitive. In a CTAF situation most of us would call at 9 miles and then 3 miles before you get to your termination point the circuit and in the case of a CTAF there are 360 directions you could be coming from. In the case of the gap the first radio call is when you are at the highest statistical point where the collision can occur. (outside the circuit) Would it not make more sense to call say 3 miles from the reporting point giving your position relative to it so as other pilots know where to look. Then perhaps again at the reporting point.
Given the recent sadness at bk im not sure this is the right time for us to be talking about this.
The reporting points do seem a little counter intuitive. In a CTAF situation most of us would call at 9 miles and then 3 miles before you get to your termination point the circuit and in the case of a CTAF there are 360 directions you could be coming from. In the case of the gap the first radio call is when you are at the highest statistical point where the collision can occur. (outside the circuit) Would it not make more sense to call say 3 miles from the reporting point giving your position relative to it so as other pilots know where to look. Then perhaps again at the reporting point.
Given the recent sadness at bk im not sure this is the right time for us to be talking about this.
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Dick. I completely agree. Funnelling traffic to a single point all at the same altitude as each other before a single call is made, is pure maddness. I'm not familiar with Camden, but that can't be much better....
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Dick, they will all eventually end up mixing in the circuit, so therefore they really don't have any form of separation until they all hit that point. Surely having a point further out that is a point that will give the controllers a point to work out separation before mixing with everyone else at the final destination would be a better option. At least they are in a lesser dense traffic area and come under some form of control before proceeding into a higher traffic density area. Every one knows that reporting points are where we all start to mix it up and are aware that this is where we should become more vigilant. a far better option than doing over the highest density area of traffic on the whole trip in my opinion.
It works like that at Jandakot....... As I am unfamiliar with the actual area being discussed, I only assumed it was like that there.
A very simple procedure change with regards to radio calls would certainly improve the safety aspect.
Would it not make more sense to call say 3 miles from the reporting point giving your position relative to it so as other pilots know where to look. Then perhaps again at the reporting point.
A very simple procedure change with regards to radio calls would certainly improve the safety aspect.
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"Dick. I completely agree. Funnelling traffic to a single point all at the same altitude as each other before a single call is made, is pure maddness. I'm not familiar with Camden, but that can't be much better...."
Camden, at least, has 5 inbound points, and on top of that it's obviously less busy than BK to begin with.
"It works like that at Jandakot....... As I am unfamiliar with the actual area being discussed, I only assumed it was like that there.
A very simple procedure change with regards to radio calls would certainly improve the safety aspect."
Surprisingly not the case here in Sydney. But it sure should be.
Camden, at least, has 5 inbound points, and on top of that it's obviously less busy than BK to begin with.
"It works like that at Jandakot....... As I am unfamiliar with the actual area being discussed, I only assumed it was like that there.
A very simple procedure change with regards to radio calls would certainly improve the safety aspect."
Surprisingly not the case here in Sydney. But it sure should be.