"Is Airmanship Dead"
"Is Airmanship Dead"
In the lattest FSA is the question......."Is Airmanship Dead"?
In short my answer would be just about sadly
I see /hear it almost daily, or the lack of it!
Having just sat down & read this article I am amused at some of the comments made by some so called well know aviation identities/businesses.
Some seem to think it's about handling skills, how good you are at actually flying the machine.
i don't feel that's correct at all. You can teach a monkey to fly an A/C I believe airmanship has little if any do with actual handling of a plane. You can't 'teach' airmanship I reckon, it comes with experience & a lot of common sense. Sure some fly better than others as in accuracy etc but to link that manipulative skill in with airmanship? come on plz
Some did in my opinion make good comments re airmanship but one contributor did hit the nail on the head exactly with results of a pilot online survey & i'll quote this person...."safety, rules, regulations & procedures: courtesy/good manners: situational awareness/look-out & communication" unquote (although the contributors response was slightly longer)
Steve Tizzard also touched on what real airmanship is via his comments.
That is what I too believe to be the basis of airmanship, not a word was said in this article re handling an A/C or how 'well hung you are' but am sure some would have believed this but it didn't make it in the final wash up too much probably
Your thoughts out there guys/gals without the usual nasty comments either plz that this forum brings out in some.
WMK2
In short my answer would be just about sadly
I see /hear it almost daily, or the lack of it!Having just sat down & read this article I am amused at some of the comments made by some so called well know aviation identities/businesses.
Some seem to think it's about handling skills, how good you are at actually flying the machine.
i don't feel that's correct at all. You can teach a monkey to fly an A/C I believe airmanship has little if any do with actual handling of a plane. You can't 'teach' airmanship I reckon, it comes with experience & a lot of common sense. Sure some fly better than others as in accuracy etc but to link that manipulative skill in with airmanship? come on plz
Some did in my opinion make good comments re airmanship but one contributor did hit the nail on the head exactly with results of a pilot online survey & i'll quote this person...."safety, rules, regulations & procedures: courtesy/good manners: situational awareness/look-out & communication" unquote (although the contributors response was slightly longer)Steve Tizzard also touched on what real airmanship is via his comments.
That is what I too believe to be the basis of airmanship, not a word was said in this article re handling an A/C or how 'well hung you are' but am sure some would have believed this but it didn't make it in the final wash up too much probably
Your thoughts out there guys/gals without the usual nasty comments either plz that this forum brings out in some.
WMK2
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Steve Tizzard also touched on what real airmanship is via his comments.
Concur entirely. Unfortunately common sense isn't very common these days, and the trend is to try and legislate it.
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Airmanship sounds like some term that a silly old ex RAF WW2 superpilot with a massive moustache made up.
Just get as much experience as you can..the more you get..the better driver you will be!
Just get as much experience as you can..the more you get..the better driver you will be!
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Airmanship
A good discussion to kick off, I believe good airmanship is an almost indefinable quality which some aviators have.
You will probably find they also have good "roadmanship" skills.
Someone with good airmanship will be the consumate pilot who looks after his/her aircraft, communicates, considers others and remains aware of where he or she is in the universe and does not fly beyond their own abilities.
Wish there were more.
And the poor old legislators cannot do a dam thing about it!
Cheers.
You will probably find they also have good "roadmanship" skills.
Someone with good airmanship will be the consumate pilot who looks after his/her aircraft, communicates, considers others and remains aware of where he or she is in the universe and does not fly beyond their own abilities.
Wish there were more.
And the poor old legislators cannot do a dam thing about it!
Cheers.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
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I think removing ones spurs before mounting the flying machine is a good start to good airmanship.......... not only that, it was a regulation back in the good old days.
As i stated before in other posts,they do not teach airmanship in the classroom.
It comes with hard earned experience over the years.
I believe it also reflects the personality on the ground.
Welcome back Capt Wally, posts like this will definetly get you back in the good books.
It comes with hard earned experience over the years.
I believe it also reflects the personality on the ground.
Welcome back Capt Wally, posts like this will definetly get you back in the good books.
Ill have a go.
I think airmanship is a measure of the common sense used when a situation arises that is not defined by rules, regulations, SOPs, or what has been taught in the classroom.
To attempt to legislate and "teach" airmanship is paradoxical.
I think airmanship is a measure of the common sense used when a situation arises that is not defined by rules, regulations, SOPs, or what has been taught in the classroom.
To attempt to legislate and "teach" airmanship is paradoxical.
Flight Discipline
Just bought "Flight Discipline" by Tony Kern and finally someone has put their finger on the "undefinable" aspect of airmanship.
SELF DISCIPLINE.
...uncompromising self-discipline in every aspect of your flying from preparation, to planning, aircraft handling, R/T procedures, regulatory compliance and professional knowledge.
He makes the point very clearly that a great many pilots with tens of thousands of hours and incalculable "experience" who, unquestionably, demonstrate the greatest degree of "common sense" as espoused by Tizzard, still manage to kill themselves (and usually others) through a breakdown in discipline.
I can think of 4 aviation "leading lights" who have managed to depart once too often in the last 4 years, and their demise can be put down to a breakdown of discipline at some point.
Like all "born again" preachers I am a hypocrite and a sinner but I have found a new bible to preach from ... Hallelujiah brothers!
SELF DISCIPLINE.
...uncompromising self-discipline in every aspect of your flying from preparation, to planning, aircraft handling, R/T procedures, regulatory compliance and professional knowledge.
He makes the point very clearly that a great many pilots with tens of thousands of hours and incalculable "experience" who, unquestionably, demonstrate the greatest degree of "common sense" as espoused by Tizzard, still manage to kill themselves (and usually others) through a breakdown in discipline.
I can think of 4 aviation "leading lights" who have managed to depart once too often in the last 4 years, and their demise can be put down to a breakdown of discipline at some point.
Like all "born again" preachers I am a hypocrite and a sinner but I have found a new bible to preach from ... Hallelujiah brothers!
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Tony Kern's first book "Redefining Airmanship" provides sound tangible advice on the fundamental requirements for airmanship that result in better situational awareness, judgement and decision making.
I agree that Airmanship is a lot to do with common sense.. Unfortunately not only in aviation are we seeing that common sense is no longer around in society.
People aren't being taught to think for themselves or perceive risk and take the appropriate actions. At my current airport (which is owned by the airline I work for) I see new students come in for a visit, a good part of their cross country training. But simple things like not starting up with prop wash blowing all sorts of stuff into hangars, or doing run ups over loose stones - things I class as airmanship (common sense) are ignored or not taught.
I was fortunate to have an instructor who when I blew stuff into a hangar, handed me a broom, I learnt that lesson, when I did a run up over loose chip, I got a whole heap of unairworthy props to remove chips from those props. Things I doubt are done in large flying schools, where instructors are so flat out they can't spend the one on one time with the student outside the lesson to pass on these simple, but important lessons. Also the student these days doesn't hang around the flying school listening to the older more experienced guys and gals and their pearls of wisdom. For me a lesson was a whole day event, by the time you spent time with the older members of the club, you learned a lot more than what a poor overworked instructor could teach.
But I'm sure there are more wiser heads in here that have probably a better idea than me.
People aren't being taught to think for themselves or perceive risk and take the appropriate actions. At my current airport (which is owned by the airline I work for) I see new students come in for a visit, a good part of their cross country training. But simple things like not starting up with prop wash blowing all sorts of stuff into hangars, or doing run ups over loose stones - things I class as airmanship (common sense) are ignored or not taught.
I was fortunate to have an instructor who when I blew stuff into a hangar, handed me a broom, I learnt that lesson, when I did a run up over loose chip, I got a whole heap of unairworthy props to remove chips from those props. Things I doubt are done in large flying schools, where instructors are so flat out they can't spend the one on one time with the student outside the lesson to pass on these simple, but important lessons. Also the student these days doesn't hang around the flying school listening to the older more experienced guys and gals and their pearls of wisdom. For me a lesson was a whole day event, by the time you spent time with the older members of the club, you learned a lot more than what a poor overworked instructor could teach.
But I'm sure there are more wiser heads in here that have probably a better idea than me.
Although I agree with the general direction of this thread, I believe that, to an extent, Airmanship can be taught/learned. It is primarily by example, and also, as Kerns states, by a self disciplined approach. Consider: an instructor educates the SPL not to use high power or to physically move the tail of the C152 so the slipstream doesn't blow into the open hangar before taxiing; years later the SPL-now an ATPL, is wary of the effects of jet blast behind his BoeingBus etc. Thus the instructor has TAUGHT an element of Airmanship, as the new SPL had not thought about things such as slipstream in their non aviation life. In the same vein, the instructor always looks left/right/above/down before EVERY turn, the student finds, years later, that they are still doing this- again a LEARNED habit. I do agree that Common Sense isn't that common these days, but in most (yes not all) cases it can be developed.
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I always thought airmanship was about "sounding good on the radio and looking good on finals".
The RAAF teaches AIRMANSHIP and BFTS. It is a 66 page book with airmanship defined as: "the safe and efficient handling on an aircraft both in the air and on the ground". It also talks about Discipline, Correct attitude towards flying (professionalism) and Commonsense.
Thoughts??
The RAAF teaches AIRMANSHIP and BFTS. It is a 66 page book with airmanship defined as: "the safe and efficient handling on an aircraft both in the air and on the ground". It also talks about Discipline, Correct attitude towards flying (professionalism) and Commonsense.
Thoughts??
funny but true 'Gundog01' To some its is all about sounding/looking good & if it works then great that's airmanship to them
As for the RAAF teachings? summed it up very well. I think we all agree the one basic word here 'commonsense' is everything, trouble is looking both ways b4 you cross the rd is commonsense too but still some get flattened!
WMk2
As for the RAAF teachings? summed it up very well. I think we all agree the one basic word here 'commonsense' is everything, trouble is looking both ways b4 you cross the rd is commonsense too but still some get flattened!
WMk2
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Originally Posted by Gordstar
Someone with good airmanship will be the consumate pilot who looks after his/her aircraft, communicates, considers others and remains aware of where he or she is in the universe and does not fly beyond their own abilities.
This basically sums up the standard I strive for whilst aviating...
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Airmanship is a dying culture. To the nitwits who think experience is all it takes..you guys/girls don't get it. I've worked 8yrs in GA & 8 yrs in airlines & in my opinion generally airmanship is fading away. Airmanship, to put it simply is etiquette & responsibility. Nuf said.
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Bollocks, etiquette & responsibility have nothing to do with aviation...you should have those before you get in an aeroplane!
I always thought airmanship was about "sounding good on the radio and looking good on finals".
Dr
Oh no, silly me - that's spelt with a "t" not a "p", isn't it!
The best teachers of airmanship are.... your mum and dad!
It is also called "discipline". It applies in the class room, at home or at work or more importantly in the cockpit.
It is also called "discipline". It applies in the class room, at home or at work or more importantly in the cockpit.