Human Resources, the unproductive industry
Human Resources, the unproductive industry
Recently I agreed to act as referee for an acquaintance’s application to an A330 charter operator. Some tosser from their HR dept call me and what ensued was quite remarkable.
All questions were along the lines of,
- give an example of how he resolved a conflict
- is he a ready joiner in group activities
- has he made any policy change suggestions
Not one aviation type question like,
- how long has he been a captain
- does he have a good reputation as an aviator, or even
- can he fly well
What the hell has happened to our profession where a bunch of limp-wristed w@nkers think they’re better at hiring pilots than pilots.
Back in the day it was an interview with a panel of senior pilots, a few (aviation relevant) technical questions, a sim ride and off to see the chief pilot for the final nod, if you survived all of that.
HR, one of the truly unproductive industries that's leeched it's way into aviation.
All questions were along the lines of,
- give an example of how he resolved a conflict
- is he a ready joiner in group activities
- has he made any policy change suggestions
Not one aviation type question like,
- how long has he been a captain
- does he have a good reputation as an aviator, or even
- can he fly well
What the hell has happened to our profession where a bunch of limp-wristed w@nkers think they’re better at hiring pilots than pilots.
Back in the day it was an interview with a panel of senior pilots, a few (aviation relevant) technical questions, a sim ride and off to see the chief pilot for the final nod, if you survived all of that.
HR, one of the truly unproductive industries that's leeched it's way into aviation.
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HR, one of the truly unproductive industries that's leeched it's way into aviation
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You beat me to it Domo. Who gives a rats if the bloke eats muesli for breakfast, and is into raising camels, please bring back the days when you were interviewed by senior jet jockeys who had a idea what a pilot should be, and how you should behave under all conditions. 
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In the interests of free and frank discussion, I'll take another tack.
When they were Staff Departments, they resolved issues for both staff and employers.
Then Unions employed bl**dy lawyers.
Now we have a whole mutual mass debating society.
The questions are relevant because someone got a grievance up on these issues in a government department, or quango, or large enough to be sued commercial organisation near you.
I feel better now. Hope I haven't offended anyone too much.
When they were Staff Departments, they resolved issues for both staff and employers.
Then Unions employed bl**dy lawyers.
Now we have a whole mutual mass debating society.
The questions are relevant because someone got a grievance up on these issues in a government department, or quango, or large enough to be sued commercial organisation near you.
I feel better now. Hope I haven't offended anyone too much.
You may be right WOD, that's probably because HR types are sometimes too quick to launch into desultory frenzy-feeding when some poor cove trips on his johnson.
My point in starting this thread was more to do with pilot hiring. If we went back to real world, level headed interview practices we could halve the HR dept and let the remainder get on with, um, well, whatever it is they do.
My point in starting this thread was more to do with pilot hiring. If we went back to real world, level headed interview practices we could halve the HR dept and let the remainder get on with, um, well, whatever it is they do.
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"how long has he been a captain"
Straight from the CV
"does he have a good reputation".
Of course he does, otherwise he wouldnt have asked you to be referee.
"Can he fly well"
Same as above.
These questions constitute a waste of time for both parties.
"give an example of how he resolved a conflict" requires a specific response that is difficult to soften due candidate friendship and often elicits information that the person answering the question is unaware of.
"What the hell has happened to our profession where a bunch of limp-wristed w@nkers think they’re better at hiring pilots than pilots."
The industry has progressed my friend.
Which is why they are seeking candidates that . . . .
"has he made any policy change suggestions" instead of just sitting on thier ass reading the paper all day.
Straight from the CV
"does he have a good reputation".
Of course he does, otherwise he wouldnt have asked you to be referee.
"Can he fly well"
Same as above.
These questions constitute a waste of time for both parties.
"give an example of how he resolved a conflict" requires a specific response that is difficult to soften due candidate friendship and often elicits information that the person answering the question is unaware of.
"What the hell has happened to our profession where a bunch of limp-wristed w@nkers think they’re better at hiring pilots than pilots."
The industry has progressed my friend.
Which is why they are seeking candidates that . . . .
"has he made any policy change suggestions" instead of just sitting on thier ass reading the paper all day.
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HR:The transformation
HR has transformed itself into a festering sore on the rump of most corporations.Airlines are where this is most evident.
Small dysfunctional people are usually head of the Department
Small dysfunctional people are usually head of the Department
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Amen Pussy, and not just airlines.
Pictured is a group of Esso HR people "improving their core competencies. "It proved a balanced focus on enhancing skills, knowledge and relationships that will help HR to deliver a consistent service to every corner of our cluster" they say.
Questions : What is a cluster? What service? And relationships with whom?
When I talked to them the answer was "our task is to provide advice to senior management, not talk to the hired help".
I thought the words on the white board were most illustrative of how HR see their role.
Pictured is a group of Esso HR people "improving their core competencies. "It proved a balanced focus on enhancing skills, knowledge and relationships that will help HR to deliver a consistent service to every corner of our cluster" they say.
Questions : What is a cluster? What service? And relationships with whom?
When I talked to them the answer was "our task is to provide advice to senior management, not talk to the hired help".
I thought the words on the white board were most illustrative of how HR see their role.
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Human Resources?
What the...I always thought it meant "Human Remains" as in, that was all that was left when they had finished with you.
Last edited by E&H; 15th Nov 2008 at 09:12. Reason: readability
Dear Prof,
A referee should be asked questions relating to the time one has known the candidate, his/her character, work ethic and capacity to do the job etc.
The questions I was asked should be directed to the candidate at the time of the interview and probably will be. You could be right that the obvious questions are a waste of time, what this HR person did was give us a heads-up on what to expect at the interview. Nothing like a well prep'd candidate is there.
Plenty of surveys reveal that senior management are not satisfied with the performance of their (correct spelling) HR dept. One only has to read the above posts to gauge the mood from those at the coalface, so it's no wonder that HR people usually become bitter, damaged pariahs.
Sadly, you may be right that HR is here to stay, what are we to do with you?
Could an airline get a flight off the ground if there was no HR dept? Probably yes.
Could an airline get a flight off the ground without pilots, engineers or cabin crew? (Not a trick question)
A referee should be asked questions relating to the time one has known the candidate, his/her character, work ethic and capacity to do the job etc.
The questions I was asked should be directed to the candidate at the time of the interview and probably will be. You could be right that the obvious questions are a waste of time, what this HR person did was give us a heads-up on what to expect at the interview. Nothing like a well prep'd candidate is there.
Plenty of surveys reveal that senior management are not satisfied with the performance of their (correct spelling) HR dept. One only has to read the above posts to gauge the mood from those at the coalface, so it's no wonder that HR people usually become bitter, damaged pariahs.
Sadly, you may be right that HR is here to stay, what are we to do with you?
Could an airline get a flight off the ground if there was no HR dept? Probably yes.
Could an airline get a flight off the ground without pilots, engineers or cabin crew? (Not a trick question)
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Bring back the old days. A pilot interview with six plus pilots, that asked the hard questions and ultimately wanted to find out what you were like as a person - would they be happy operating with you (understanding your current level)?
Unfortunately this is not the case anymore.
I miss it.... as most of us probably do.
Unfortunately this is not the case anymore.
I miss it.... as most of us probably do.
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Qanchor
I've been a referee for people in IT, aviation, and the military. As a referee I've been asked to do face-to-face and telephone interviews. In all three areas I've conducted interviews to assess likely candidates for employment, courses, etc.
IMHO, what they asked you wasn't unreasonable, and IMHO, your rant is misplaced.
An employer will ask a referee what THEY think are reasonable questions; not what the referee thinks are reasonable questions. How do you know that they haven't asked other referees the above questions, and that they were getting a different viewpoint from you.
Questions such as:
may have already been answered to their satisfaction before they rang you.
IMHO, questions such as:
ARE relevant to an A330 charter operation! Well, definitely the first one. 
About the others... have you considered that in the interview he may have said that he "Made policy changes" and that he "Is a ready joiner in group activities". God knows, I've read plenty of claims in C.V's. Some have been true; others pure fabrication! They may be getting you to confirm whether he was lying or not.
Just my 2c!
DIVOSH!
P.S. Advice to anyone putting their hand up to be a referee: Think about what questions you're likely to be asked and how you're going to answer them (that is, if you care about the person and want them to get the job).
P.P.S. Advice to anyone asking someone else to be a referee: REALLY THINK HARD about what the referee is going to say about you. Lots of people don't get the job because the referee was poorly picked.
P.P.P.S: IMHO, the job is probably Strategic Aviation and not Qantas.
DIVOSH!
IMHO, what they asked you wasn't unreasonable, and IMHO, your rant is misplaced.
A referee should be asked questions relating to the time one has known the candidate, his/her character, work ethic and capacity to do the job etc.
Questions such as:
- how long has he been a captain
- does he have a good reputation as an aviator, or even
- can he fly well
- does he have a good reputation as an aviator, or even
- can he fly well
IMHO, questions such as:
- give an example of how he resolved a conflict
- is he a ready joiner in group activities
- has he made any policy change suggestions
- is he a ready joiner in group activities
- has he made any policy change suggestions
About the others... have you considered that in the interview he may have said that he "Made policy changes" and that he "Is a ready joiner in group activities". God knows, I've read plenty of claims in C.V's. Some have been true; others pure fabrication! They may be getting you to confirm whether he was lying or not.
Just my 2c!
DIVOSH!
P.S. Advice to anyone putting their hand up to be a referee: Think about what questions you're likely to be asked and how you're going to answer them (that is, if you care about the person and want them to get the job).
P.P.S. Advice to anyone asking someone else to be a referee: REALLY THINK HARD about what the referee is going to say about you. Lots of people don't get the job because the referee was poorly picked.
P.P.P.S: IMHO, the job is probably Strategic Aviation and not Qantas.
DIVOSH!
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Why limit it to aviation? HR is another manifestation of modern woolly headed thinking that everyone could do without
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"has he made any policy change suggestions" instead of just sitting on thier ass reading the paper all day.
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It's obvious that Hr has little place in the real world.
Two things have killed aviation, one is an airline is run by non aviation experts, accountants & the likes, both have their uses but not as decisoin makers I reckon & the other thing is the fairlyland job of HR
Pilots used to fly planes, pilots used to hire other pilots, bot are all but no longer needed
CW
Two things have killed aviation, one is an airline is run by non aviation experts, accountants & the likes, both have their uses but not as decisoin makers I reckon & the other thing is the fairlyland job of HR
Pilots used to fly planes, pilots used to hire other pilots, bot are all but no longer needed
CW