Bushflight
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WTF..you can't join on base..no wonder you get your hours up in Aus so quick
Anyone would think CASA have shares in BP and Shell or something with all the screwing around they want you to do!!
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..........................."Whats wrong with joining base anyway?? i do it al the time.
along with plenty off others " Oh boy & to think that these guys have a license!!!!
they ought to have 007 stamped on them too, licenced to kill!
Professionalism & airmanship, nothing to be proud of obviously
capt wally, What has joining base to do with killing people?
For starters I learned to fly in NZ were such thing is or at least was normal.
secondly nobody ever pulled me up in aussie about it. And I hear plenty off pilots with an aussie accent joining base, or finals for that matter. So for all I know it would be normal.
I was asking what was wrong with joining base. Nothing unproffesional about asking were I come from.
It would be dangerous if one was to join base WITHOUT making your attentions clear to other people in the circuit.
So could you please tell me (i am not taking the piss here mate) why it would be dangerous or unproffesional to join a base leg versus joining down wind or cross wind.
cheers
along with plenty off others " Oh boy & to think that these guys have a license!!!!
they ought to have 007 stamped on them too, licenced to kill! Professionalism & airmanship, nothing to be proud of obviouslycapt wally, What has joining base to do with killing people?
For starters I learned to fly in NZ were such thing is or at least was normal.
secondly nobody ever pulled me up in aussie about it. And I hear plenty off pilots with an aussie accent joining base, or finals for that matter. So for all I know it would be normal.
I was asking what was wrong with joining base. Nothing unproffesional about asking were I come from.
It would be dangerous if one was to join base WITHOUT making your attentions clear to other people in the circuit.
So could you please tell me (i am not taking the piss here mate) why it would be dangerous or unproffesional to join a base leg versus joining down wind or cross wind.
cheers
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This is not the situation I'm in but if you are in the outback and establish that there is no traffic for 100nm, why not join base, isn't all about common sense! if you are at a busy airport with ten in the circuit wouldn't it be beneficial to do as many legs of the circuit as practicable to allow others and yourself to safely space.
That no base rule has probably come about because of idiots who can't look left and right while listening to the radio and maintain situational awareness at busy airports....
That no base rule has probably come about because of idiots who can't look left and right while listening to the radio and maintain situational awareness at busy airports....
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MerlinV8, you have hit the nail on the head perfectly there!
Basically it boils down to, CASA think that nobody has the common sense to join overhead or downwind etc when its busy so therefore made a rule so you must do 3 legs of the circuit no matter where you are or what the conditions are. NZCAA on the other hand realise that different situations require different procedures, and figure we have some semblance of common sense and will join in the safest way for the situation.
What '4x was referring to was when the bushflight planes would return to Curtin from Koolan Island in the north, and at the suggestion of the chief pilot would join a base for Rwy 11 because the track flew right to that point. Everyone was on the same track, and ended up at the same point in the circuit, and it worked perfectly cos everyone did the same thing...except him
Basically it boils down to, CASA think that nobody has the common sense to join overhead or downwind etc when its busy so therefore made a rule so you must do 3 legs of the circuit no matter where you are or what the conditions are. NZCAA on the other hand realise that different situations require different procedures, and figure we have some semblance of common sense and will join in the safest way for the situation.
What '4x was referring to was when the bushflight planes would return to Curtin from Koolan Island in the north, and at the suggestion of the chief pilot would join a base for Rwy 11 because the track flew right to that point. Everyone was on the same track, and ended up at the same point in the circuit, and it worked perfectly cos everyone did the same thing...except him
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.................So could you please tell me (i am not taking the piss here mate) why it would be dangerous or unproffesional to join a base leg versus joining down wind or cross wind.
Because it's the law! I don't make the rules/laws I abide by them like all professional pilots do day in day out, from the RPT guys to the ones that sticik to the rules at grass roots level. Right or wrong if we don't ALL play the game using the same rules then safety is NOT assured, that's why we have rules in the first place.!
Remember also not every A/C carries or knows how to use a radio.
I expected the less educated to try & justify why they fly to their own rules, what gets me is who is checking these guys? Their the ones at fault really, the check & trainers CP's etc.
CW
Because it's the law! I don't make the rules/laws I abide by them like all professional pilots do day in day out, from the RPT guys to the ones that sticik to the rules at grass roots level. Right or wrong if we don't ALL play the game using the same rules then safety is NOT assured, that's why we have rules in the first place.!
Remember also not every A/C carries or knows how to use a radio.
I expected the less educated to try & justify why they fly to their own rules, what gets me is who is checking these guys? Their the ones at fault really, the check & trainers CP's etc.
CW
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Thanks capt, i didnt mean to upset you mate.
I was not aware off the fact that it was law until someone mentioned it in this forum the other day.
Maybe the kiwis and kiwi told pilots should do a law exam before coming over to your side off the ditch?
Yes i did do icus when I got to do charter work. but maybe it just never came up.
so thanks for bringing the law thing up.
at least now I know.
cheers
I was not aware off the fact that it was law until someone mentioned it in this forum the other day.
Maybe the kiwis and kiwi told pilots should do a law exam before coming over to your side off the ditch?
Yes i did do icus when I got to do charter work. but maybe it just never came up.
so thanks for bringing the law thing up.
at least now I know.
cheers
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So Capt'n Wally, you're saying its dangerous in Australia but not in New Zealand, to join base. Why?? If you were to go to New Zealand and fly there, would you still fly 3 legs of the circuit and tell anyone that is joining base they are dangerous, and if so, what would be your reasoning?
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Joining base
I join base at Ardmore a lot, if either 21 or 03 is in use. My call usually is- "ABC 2 NM East of Water works joining left base/or wide left base 21". Or, "ABC central Papakura joining right base 03/ or wide right base 03/ or/and trafic in sight/ or traffic mid downwind/late downwind/base in sight"
And i do this even when its busy. Other wise i join downwind or even worse i will do the correct procedure and join over head. But, sometimes its a bit hard to slot in, but usually its fine
If i am in Australia, and its quiet, then base, final whatever gets me in squarishly and legaly. Man, i have seen planes scream in with no aparant adherence to the bases, just shoot on in with any angle, slap the flaps down and bung it on the tar. But, mostly its dead skys around when they do so. But, when its busy, on the east coast, i see most planes joining in the middle of the downwind and call, and then seperate a bit to find there slot and down on they go finding there space until they land.
FS1200
And i do this even when its busy. Other wise i join downwind or even worse i will do the correct procedure and join over head. But, sometimes its a bit hard to slot in, but usually its fine
If i am in Australia, and its quiet, then base, final whatever gets me in squarishly and legaly. Man, i have seen planes scream in with no aparant adherence to the bases, just shoot on in with any angle, slap the flaps down and bung it on the tar. But, mostly its dead skys around when they do so. But, when its busy, on the east coast, i see most planes joining in the middle of the downwind and call, and then seperate a bit to find there slot and down on they go finding there space until they land.
FS1200
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Flysaucer,
I flew at Ardmore for ten years and it is busiest airport in NZ, if you learn't to fly there and know all the reporting points and procedures of course it shouldn't be a problem, I'm not sure what point you were were trying to make?
Imagine you're a new PPL never been there before and decide that because of your track you will join base, little do you know two aircraft are about to join straight in on final, one is joining overhead and three are in the circuit, what happens is everyone starts to shuffle around you trying to fix the spacing up when you should be giving away to them, not to mention if an idiot is at the controls, will he be looking in the right direction? up/down left/right?
You have told us you know Ardmore very well and nothing else.
I flew at Ardmore for ten years and it is busiest airport in NZ, if you learn't to fly there and know all the reporting points and procedures of course it shouldn't be a problem, I'm not sure what point you were were trying to make?
Imagine you're a new PPL never been there before and decide that because of your track you will join base, little do you know two aircraft are about to join straight in on final, one is joining overhead and three are in the circuit, what happens is everyone starts to shuffle around you trying to fix the spacing up when you should be giving away to them, not to mention if an idiot is at the controls, will he be looking in the right direction? up/down left/right?
You have told us you know Ardmore very well and nothing else.
Last edited by MerlinV8; 24th Oct 2008 at 14:22.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
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I do believe you may find Capt Wally flys aircraft quite a bit more substantial that the veritable old 206, and at heights where waterfalls are a little harder to see.
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Rep,
You have to worry about someone who says "I join base even when its busy but when joining overhead it can be hard to slot in"
Flyingsaucer
"ABC central Papakura joining right base 03/ or wide right base 03/ or/and trafic in sight/ or traffic mid downwind/late downwind/base in sight"
Base in sight? Are we now calling when we have the circuit legs in sight?
are they still visible when its IMC? or do you need to be VFR to see them?
You have to worry about someone who says "I join base even when its busy but when joining overhead it can be hard to slot in"
Flyingsaucer
"ABC central Papakura joining right base 03/ or wide right base 03/ or/and trafic in sight/ or traffic mid downwind/late downwind/base in sight"
Base in sight? Are we now calling when we have the circuit legs in sight?
are they still visible when its IMC? or do you need to be VFR to see them?
Last edited by MerlinV8; 25th Oct 2008 at 05:38.
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Tnxs 'WIZ" for yr defence but there's little point in responding to the uneducated within the pilot fraternity, they stick out like a sore thumb with their low level of intell! Just goes to show that's the type we have to deal with in a world where airmanship & professionalism come second to so called smart*ss flying.
CW
CW
Last edited by Capt Wally; 25th Oct 2008 at 08:16.
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Originally Posted by Capt Wally
...they stick out like a sore thumb with their low level of intell! Just goes to show that's the type we have to deal with in a world where airmanship & professionalism should come first...
Originally Posted by MerlinV8
...Base in sight? Are we now calling when we have the circuit legs in sight?...
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Russian,
I never argued whether it was safe or not, or how many people fly to the aerodrome, or whether you trained in New Zealand, or if it's allowed there, or any other
**** arguments you bring.
I said it was illegal.
And here you are admitting on a website which CASA frequents, that you have been breaking the law. Smart move mate.
Ask anyone involved in pilot selection, psychology or human factors whether someone who breaks rules because they think they know better is more or less likely to kill a plane load of people. It's called "invincibility" or "i know better" or "macho" in several forms of literature regarding hazardous attitudes in aviation.
I never argued whether it was safe or not, or how many people fly to the aerodrome, or whether you trained in New Zealand, or if it's allowed there, or any other
**** arguments you bring.I said it was illegal.
And here you are admitting on a website which CASA frequents, that you have been breaking the law. Smart move mate.
Ask anyone involved in pilot selection, psychology or human factors whether someone who breaks rules because they think they know better is more or less likely to kill a plane load of people. It's called "invincibility" or "i know better" or "macho" in several forms of literature regarding hazardous attitudes in aviation.
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You tell 'em 4x!! its guys like that who make me wish I had a threat warning reciever in my plane!! "Warning, random Airvan all over the place, take evasive action!!"
...so if a guy from the US comes over to Aus, and starts walking around the streets with his M16 slung over his shoulder, then claims "its legal in the US so I'm going to do it here", that's ok?
When you're in any country, you follow their rules. You know, the ones in that "Air Law" exam that you had to pass. Just because "they do it in NZ" doesn't mean it should be done here. If you can join base easily, surely mid downwind is just as easy, the difference being that you are doing it legally.
Joining base in a CTAF is not all of a sudden dangerous in Australia. It is, however, against the law. With all the crap dished out on prune at pilots/instructors who don't follow/teach standard procedures, then we have comments like this.
When you're in any country, you follow their rules. You know, the ones in that "Air Law" exam that you had to pass. Just because "they do it in NZ" doesn't mean it should be done here. If you can join base easily, surely mid downwind is just as easy, the difference being that you are doing it legally.
Joining base in a CTAF is not all of a sudden dangerous in Australia. It is, however, against the law. With all the crap dished out on prune at pilots/instructors who don't follow/teach standard procedures, then we have comments like this.