Student pays insurance excess
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Student pays insurance excess
Hi all -
Ive just started doing some training at a particular flying school, and im a little wary of the document theyve given me that basically says, if I, as a student, bend their plane, I have to pay the insurance excess - which depending on the plane can be close to $10,000
Is this normal? I've done a lot of flying out of different schools in the past and this is the first time ive ever heard of this... mind you ive never bent a plane either..
I thought the schools would have their planes insured for even student pilots, being a school - is it right that they would pass the cost of the excess on to the student??
Ive just started doing some training at a particular flying school, and im a little wary of the document theyve given me that basically says, if I, as a student, bend their plane, I have to pay the insurance excess - which depending on the plane can be close to $10,000
Is this normal? I've done a lot of flying out of different schools in the past and this is the first time ive ever heard of this... mind you ive never bent a plane either..
I thought the schools would have their planes insured for even student pilots, being a school - is it right that they would pass the cost of the excess on to the student??
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That's what insurance is for.... and due care and diligence on the part of the School you're working with. Or so I thought. 
That said, we do have a clause that basically allows for gross negligence or intentional breach by the hirer of the aircraft... then you pay the excess (and you never get the keys again
)
That said, we do have a clause that basically allows for gross negligence or intentional breach by the hirer of the aircraft... then you pay the excess (and you never get the keys again
)
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That said, we do have a clause that basically allows for gross negligence or intentional breach by the hirer of the aircraft... then you pay the excess (and you never get the keys again 
)
)
Its got me worried enough that im considering not continuing with the course and going to another school.
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Its got me worried enough that im considering not continuing with the course and going to another school.
PS Good on ya for reading the small print! That's the sort of thing that makes agood pilot!
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Just be VERY careful... check and see if it only applies when you are flying solo, not when Dual as you are not PIC and it's the PIC responsibility to ensure your safety...
As for me, I carry the excess regardless of who's flying for my aircraft... it's just a cost of doing business.
Also 10K is very high for an excess.. mine has been as low as 2.5K.. seems to me that if they are so stretched that they need to do this then what else are they doing...
My advice... find another school/aircraft.
As for me, I carry the excess regardless of who's flying for my aircraft... it's just a cost of doing business.
Also 10K is very high for an excess.. mine has been as low as 2.5K.. seems to me that if they are so stretched that they need to do this then what else are they doing...
My advice... find another school/aircraft.
If you are flying with an instructor, you won't be paying any excess. It's only when you are on your own and you caused the damage. The excess is usually 10% of the total cost of the repairs, so you would get asked to pay $10,000 pretty much only if you wrote off an aircraft on your own, and it was totally your fault.
Bending a firewall on a C172 through trying to land it at 70 knots when you have been taught otherwise, will set you back about $1,500
Bending a firewall on a C172 through trying to land it at 70 knots when you have been taught otherwise, will set you back about $1,500
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Thats normal. Where I fly if you flying Dual the club pays the excess but your flying solo you pay unless theres something wrong with plane.
If you think theres something wrong that I wouldn't let you fly my plane.
If you think theres something wrong that I wouldn't let you fly my plane.
I had to sign a similar agreement when I was learning to fly, but the excess was only $1000..
The aircraft was insured to operate from any prepared or unprepared strips, paddocks, riverbeds, just about anywhere we wanted to land the aircraft we were covered as long as we paid the excess if we bent it.
In the end I got a lot of experience during my CPL training of operating into some pretty awesome places - the beach on Big Bay, Stewart Island beaches, strips down the Landsborough River too.
But $10,000 seems quite steep especially if you aren't allowed to have any fun while you're learning!
The aircraft was insured to operate from any prepared or unprepared strips, paddocks, riverbeds, just about anywhere we wanted to land the aircraft we were covered as long as we paid the excess if we bent it.
In the end I got a lot of experience during my CPL training of operating into some pretty awesome places - the beach on Big Bay, Stewart Island beaches, strips down the Landsborough River too.
But $10,000 seems quite steep especially if you aren't allowed to have any fun while you're learning!
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The clause is pretty normal - what is high is the excess. Most excesses are 1 - 2% of hull value. So a $10K excess shows you're either flying a half to $1M plane or the flying school is saving money on their premium by nominating a higher excess.
The excess can vary with the pilot experience too. eg greater than 500 hrsr TT then 1% or less than 500hrs TT then 2% of hull value for excess.
The excess can vary with the pilot experience too. eg greater than 500 hrsr TT then 1% or less than 500hrs TT then 2% of hull value for excess.
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It's purely arse covering. If they were confident in their instruction they wouldn't need that clause. It's not like you are going to deliberately bend their aircraft, so they need to make sure you are ready to go solo etc.
Find another school.
If the aircraft is privately owned and online in a school, the school should cover this gap in the event of a claim; it's just one of the risks that the school takes on and why they should charge their margin on the aircraft.
Find another school.
If the aircraft is privately owned and online in a school, the school should cover this gap in the event of a claim; it's just one of the risks that the school takes on and why they should charge their margin on the aircraft.
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I think $10k is a bit steep. I had a similar concern at my last flight school. The subject of excess came up after my instructor opened is door on the taxi way after landing and the wind caught it broke it off of one of the hinges.
He said that if I was flying I would have to pay the excess which is rubbish. He's logging command hours, he's the one that makes the final decision. Logging solo hours I'd be more than happy to pay the excess and I think that's only fair.
I'd be incline to move schools. There's so many of them out there, no need to stay with one that's going to bend you over if the worst were to happen!
He said that if I was flying I would have to pay the excess which is rubbish. He's logging command hours, he's the one that makes the final decision. Logging solo hours I'd be more than happy to pay the excess and I think that's only fair.
I'd be incline to move schools. There's so many of them out there, no need to stay with one that's going to bend you over if the worst were to happen!
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that is total bull@h1t, WALK AWAY NOW.
A company has to factor accidents in as a cost of doing business, if you worked at a supermarket and one day you rammed a pallet jack into a wall, you would not have to pay to fix the wall, you might get a warning, but that would be it.
If you worked as a crane operator and one day you lost a load worth 50K, you would not have to pay for that, you would be in deep sh@t, but you wouldn't have to pay. Go down today and ask a crane operator (for example) what they think about being financially responsible for every load they move. I think you know the response you will get.
I am always surprised that sensible people let themselves get walked on by aviation companies, just because its an aviation company doesn't mean the normal rules of business and ethics don't apply to them.
Start now how you mean to continue, and tell them to F off.
The hourly rate you pay already ready covers the cost of business, it doses not just cover the cost to run the machine, your hourly rate is covering (or should cover) the machine operating cost, the admin costs for the business, the sales costs, the insurances, the facility costs like power, phone and heat, AND unexpected costs like accidents, if it doesn't then the company has no idea what its doing and is doomed.
Tell them its bullshi%
A company has to factor accidents in as a cost of doing business, if you worked at a supermarket and one day you rammed a pallet jack into a wall, you would not have to pay to fix the wall, you might get a warning, but that would be it.
If you worked as a crane operator and one day you lost a load worth 50K, you would not have to pay for that, you would be in deep sh@t, but you wouldn't have to pay. Go down today and ask a crane operator (for example) what they think about being financially responsible for every load they move. I think you know the response you will get.
I am always surprised that sensible people let themselves get walked on by aviation companies, just because its an aviation company doesn't mean the normal rules of business and ethics don't apply to them.
Start now how you mean to continue, and tell them to F off.
The hourly rate you pay already ready covers the cost of business, it doses not just cover the cost to run the machine, your hourly rate is covering (or should cover) the machine operating cost, the admin costs for the business, the sales costs, the insurances, the facility costs like power, phone and heat, AND unexpected costs like accidents, if it doesn't then the company has no idea what its doing and is doomed.
Tell them its bullshi%
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Why should you think this is such a big deal?
Have you ever hired a car from Budget or Avis, you always pay the excess should you have an accident.
Having said that I think 10k is a bit rich for an excess.
BSB
Have you ever hired a car from Budget or Avis, you always pay the excess should you have an accident.
Having said that I think 10k is a bit rich for an excess.
BSB
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Have you ever hired a car from Budget or Avis, you always pay the excess should you have an accident.
As most flying schools lease their aircraft, they’re not actually paying any insurance on the aircraft anyway, the owner is. If this is the case, the flying school should ‘self insure’ the excess. If they own their own aircraft, then they should do the same and ‘self insure’ any excess. After all, this is an industry with a certain amount of risk associated with it, as a business you can’t distance yourself from that risk and pass any loss onto the student.
I have flown with six flying schools and not once have I had to sign an agreement like this, tell’em to get bent!
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If your PinC and you bend it. Its your problem.
Say if your a instructor at a aero club or a flying school its normal for them to pay the excess for your stuff up when your teaching.
But if your flying solo ie PinC and you bend it in all places that I know you have to pay the excess unless its mechanical fualt or something like that.
Say if your a instructor at a aero club or a flying school its normal for them to pay the excess for your stuff up when your teaching.
But if your flying solo ie PinC and you bend it in all places that I know you have to pay the excess unless its mechanical fualt or something like that.