The old Aviation Safety Digests versus Flight Safety Australia Vive La Difference
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The last FSA has an article about the Kyeema crash. No author mentioned, but it does mention Mac Job in the footnote. Also noticed Mac Job authored one in the previous issue on Airservicess.
I have never seen the original crash comic, so have no point of reference, but there is usually something worth reading in the FSA mag.
Maybe not a lot, but it's not all bad. Too much propaganda for my liking.
I have never seen the original crash comic, so have no point of reference, but there is usually something worth reading in the FSA mag.
Maybe not a lot, but it's not all bad. Too much propaganda for my liking.
Thread Starter
I have never seen the original crash comic, so have no point of reference
I venture to say the readability of most of the Air Safety Digests was due to Mac Job's (as the then editor) uncanny ability to carefully read the incident and accident reports as they came to his desk. He then selected those that he thought would interest his readers from the PPL to the airline pilot. He then used his journalistic skill to edit the original piece and produce the final product that made the magazine eminently readable. In this he was ably assisted by Dick Mclean who was Assistant Editor. It is this skill that is absent in FSA.
Mac Jobs writings were carried on in his Air Crash and the Air Disaster series of books where (in my view anyway) the artwork by Matthew Tesch was superb - one picture is worth a thousand words, comes to mind.
OK, so commercial advertising is needed to pay for the current Flight Safety Australia magazine. But surely not on every page. And I don't believe that technically superb graphic designers are needed to attract young pilots or engineers to FSA. Nor two pages of quizzes. If pilots had to pay for FSA, the readership would very few.
In 1972 Air Safety Digest gained international recognition for the effectiveness of its presentation and content when the United States Flight Safety Foundation named the Digest it's "Publication of the Year."
Despite incredible advances in graphic design, a myriad brightly coloured pages both in advertising and perceived "good gen" in impossible to photocopy print style, does not necessarily attract a discerning aviation safety minded audience. From reading the posts on this thread the editor of FSA must surely be saddened at the lack of enthusiasm for her magazine. All the more reason to re-visit the past success story that was Aviation Safety Digest and learn from it.
Last edited by Centaurus; 15th Sep 2008 at 11:12.
Grumpy
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 35-21 South 149-06 East
Posts: 205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bushy - no it wasn't - it was one of OURS.
I thought that might have been the ONLY one that could be mentioned. But sadly not.
I know exactly what happened and have the copies in front of me.
It was ASD 141 (1989) Al Bridges Editor. "Pilot induced electrical failure in controlled airspace" by Colin Field (page 4).
The analysis was in fact wrong and was picked up after the ASD went to distribution by one of our electrical engineers in Airworthiness. I failed because I hadn't asked for the artricle to be checked by Airworthiness after it was written and accepted the explanation.
There was no cover up.
As soon as we were advised of the error we made a prominant correction Go to page x1 in the next issue - the Yellow Pages - MEA CULPA, MEA CULPA - we had made two mistakes in the one issue. Unforgiveable - but certainly not a cover up. Just not enough attention to detail and I suffered.
I should also point out that I changed the focus of the ASD from how it was handled by BASI. I introduced pilot contributions to issues and encouraged them; introduced letters to the editor and open debate as well as convincing Nikkon to sponsor our photographic competition.
But that was 20 years ago - and I couldn't be bothered with debating conspiracy theories.
Cheers
I thought that might have been the ONLY one that could be mentioned. But sadly not.
I know exactly what happened and have the copies in front of me.
It was ASD 141 (1989) Al Bridges Editor. "Pilot induced electrical failure in controlled airspace" by Colin Field (page 4).
The analysis was in fact wrong and was picked up after the ASD went to distribution by one of our electrical engineers in Airworthiness. I failed because I hadn't asked for the artricle to be checked by Airworthiness after it was written and accepted the explanation.
There was no cover up.
As soon as we were advised of the error we made a prominant correction Go to page x1 in the next issue - the Yellow Pages - MEA CULPA, MEA CULPA - we had made two mistakes in the one issue. Unforgiveable - but certainly not a cover up. Just not enough attention to detail and I suffered.
I should also point out that I changed the focus of the ASD from how it was handled by BASI. I introduced pilot contributions to issues and encouraged them; introduced letters to the editor and open debate as well as convincing Nikkon to sponsor our photographic competition.
But that was 20 years ago - and I couldn't be bothered with debating conspiracy theories.
Cheers
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Melbourne, Vic
Posts: 326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There's a history of the old Digest and some sample articles at Airways Museum / Civil Aviation Historical Society 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Back again.
Posts: 1,140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm in agreement with ZeeBee...time moves on. It's very difficult to justify any magazine nowadays that isn't at least a half centimetre thick, half filled with ads, with very few articles exceeding 800 words and lots of glossy, professional photograghs and illustrations.
Liability, legal threats and lawsuits have also done a nice job of killing editorial discussions on sensitive topics. As the newspapers have discovered, it's far more juicy and profitable to speculate immediately than wait to print the facts. By the time the facts emerge, public interest has moved on to the next contrived crisis.
One editorial aspect that I particularly enjoyed with the ASD was the restraint in assigning blame. The facts as determined were described in detail and in most cases, I felt the reader was encouraged to determine the contributory causes; almost like solving a good mystery. This editorial process encouraged what many modern magazine editors strive for: legs. The articles went beyond the pages of the magazine and were discussed at home, at work, over the bar for weeks and sometimes months (or years on Pprune) after publication. There were very few articles that had me saying, "What the hell were you thinking?!!" Instead, the selected accidents and incidents were ones in which I could say, "There but for the grace of God go I." They encouraged reader involvement and discussion.
Modern blogging, RSS feeds and Twitter haven't diminished the need for this information. Instead, they've forced a requirement for the information to become available sooner. By the time CASA gets around to printing a magazine, the items for discussion are old, old news. The facts (whether right or wrong) have been all over the Internet for ages and discussed, chewed over and outcomes determined far in advance of anything the CASA can do. A magazine is not the appropriate vehicle for this type of information in the 21st century.
The Internet has made it extremely difficult or impossible to control the direction of discussion, but it is something that I would encourage the CASA to embrace. The organisation might not be able to dictate the discussion, but it can control the release of the facts. Of course, that implies a professional approach and someone who knows what they are doing and given some room to innovate (currently 10-15 years behind everyone else) in an organization where the managers have heard of the Internet, but it's still regarded as something of a necessary evil that emanates from the dungeons to be cautiously monitored and controlled.
The CASA can't get the regs out of the 1980's. It's no wonder its information delivery systems are stuck in the same timeframe. The early ASD's were edited by an air safety investigator. If the CASA still had them, there would be no way they'd put an aviation experienced professional in charge of a magazine. Waste of resources, when a PR trained person can do the same thing, right?
Liability, legal threats and lawsuits have also done a nice job of killing editorial discussions on sensitive topics. As the newspapers have discovered, it's far more juicy and profitable to speculate immediately than wait to print the facts. By the time the facts emerge, public interest has moved on to the next contrived crisis.
One editorial aspect that I particularly enjoyed with the ASD was the restraint in assigning blame. The facts as determined were described in detail and in most cases, I felt the reader was encouraged to determine the contributory causes; almost like solving a good mystery. This editorial process encouraged what many modern magazine editors strive for: legs. The articles went beyond the pages of the magazine and were discussed at home, at work, over the bar for weeks and sometimes months (or years on Pprune) after publication. There were very few articles that had me saying, "What the hell were you thinking?!!" Instead, the selected accidents and incidents were ones in which I could say, "There but for the grace of God go I." They encouraged reader involvement and discussion.
Modern blogging, RSS feeds and Twitter haven't diminished the need for this information. Instead, they've forced a requirement for the information to become available sooner. By the time CASA gets around to printing a magazine, the items for discussion are old, old news. The facts (whether right or wrong) have been all over the Internet for ages and discussed, chewed over and outcomes determined far in advance of anything the CASA can do. A magazine is not the appropriate vehicle for this type of information in the 21st century.
The Internet has made it extremely difficult or impossible to control the direction of discussion, but it is something that I would encourage the CASA to embrace. The organisation might not be able to dictate the discussion, but it can control the release of the facts. Of course, that implies a professional approach and someone who knows what they are doing and given some room to innovate (currently 10-15 years behind everyone else) in an organization where the managers have heard of the Internet, but it's still regarded as something of a necessary evil that emanates from the dungeons to be cautiously monitored and controlled.
The CASA can't get the regs out of the 1980's. It's no wonder its information delivery systems are stuck in the same timeframe. The early ASD's were edited by an air safety investigator. If the CASA still had them, there would be no way they'd put an aviation experienced professional in charge of a magazine. Waste of resources, when a PR trained person can do the same thing, right?
Last edited by Lodown; 15th Sep 2008 at 21:55.
Thread Starter
There's a history of the old Digest and some sample articles at Airways Museum / Civil Aviation Historical Society
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: australia
Age: 66
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Centaurus, couldn't agree more about the FSD and particularly Mac Job's efforts. I have the Air Disaster series and dig them out every few years and re-read them...always fascinating.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 478
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Remember this:
Issue 102/ 1978.
The Ambulance in the Valley
‘Twas a dangerous cliff, as they freely confessed,
Though to walk near its crest was so pleasant;
But over its terrible edge there had slipped
A duke, and full many a peasant.
The people said something would have to be done,
But their projects did not at all tally.
Some said ‘Put a fence ‘round the edge of the cliff,’
Some, ‘An ambulance down in the valley.’
The lament of the crowd was profound and was loud,
As their tears overflowed with their pity;
But the cry for the ambulance carried the day
As it spread through the neighbouring city.
A collection was made, to accumulate aid
And the dwellers in highway and alley
Gave dollars or cents – not to furnish a fence –
But an ambulance down in the valley.
‘For the cliff is all right if you’re careful,’ they said;
‘And if folks ever slip and are dropping,
It isn’t the slipping that hurts them so much
As the shock down below – when they’re stopping.’
So for years (we have heard), as these mishaps occurred
Quick forth would the rescuers sally,
To pick up the victims who fell from the cliff,
With the ambulance down in the valley.
Said one, to his pleas, ‘It’s marvel to me
That you’d give so much greater attention
To repairing results than to curing the cause;
You had much better aim at prevention.
For the mischief, of course, should be stopped at its source;
Come, neighbours and friends, let us rally.
It is far better sense to rely on a fence
Than an ambulance down in the valley.’
‘He is wrong in his head,’ the majority said;
‘He would end all our earnest endeavour.
He’s a man who would shirk this responsible work,
But we will support it forever.
Aren’t we picking up all, just as fast as they fall,
And giving them care liberally?
A superfluous fence is of no consequence,
If the ambulance works in the valley.’
The story looks queer as we’ve written it here,
But things oft occur that are stranger
More humane, we assert, than to succour the hurt
Is the plan of removing the danger.
The best possible course is to safeguard the source
By attending to things rationally.
Yes, build up the fence and let us dispense
With the ambulance down in the valley.
The Ambulance in the Valley
‘Twas a dangerous cliff, as they freely confessed,
Though to walk near its crest was so pleasant;
But over its terrible edge there had slipped
A duke, and full many a peasant.
The people said something would have to be done,
But their projects did not at all tally.
Some said ‘Put a fence ‘round the edge of the cliff,’
Some, ‘An ambulance down in the valley.’
The lament of the crowd was profound and was loud,
As their tears overflowed with their pity;
But the cry for the ambulance carried the day
As it spread through the neighbouring city.
A collection was made, to accumulate aid
And the dwellers in highway and alley
Gave dollars or cents – not to furnish a fence –
But an ambulance down in the valley.
‘For the cliff is all right if you’re careful,’ they said;
‘And if folks ever slip and are dropping,
It isn’t the slipping that hurts them so much
As the shock down below – when they’re stopping.’
So for years (we have heard), as these mishaps occurred
Quick forth would the rescuers sally,
To pick up the victims who fell from the cliff,
With the ambulance down in the valley.
Said one, to his pleas, ‘It’s marvel to me
That you’d give so much greater attention
To repairing results than to curing the cause;
You had much better aim at prevention.
For the mischief, of course, should be stopped at its source;
Come, neighbours and friends, let us rally.
It is far better sense to rely on a fence
Than an ambulance down in the valley.’
‘He is wrong in his head,’ the majority said;
‘He would end all our earnest endeavour.
He’s a man who would shirk this responsible work,
But we will support it forever.
Aren’t we picking up all, just as fast as they fall,
And giving them care liberally?
A superfluous fence is of no consequence,
If the ambulance works in the valley.’
The story looks queer as we’ve written it here,
But things oft occur that are stranger
More humane, we assert, than to succour the hurt
Is the plan of removing the danger.
The best possible course is to safeguard the source
By attending to things rationally.
Yes, build up the fence and let us dispense
With the ambulance down in the valley.
Last edited by Bob Murphie; 16th Sep 2008 at 00:46.
Some one earlier on said they would consider scanning the ASD and making them available. I am prepared to put time into that endevour and have the following ASD's.
let me know if you would like me to copy any of them to provide a complete set.
14, 87, 91, 95, 97, 98, 100, 102, 105, 106, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 134, 135, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 142, 143, 144, 145, 146, 148, 149, 150, and a couple of extras, The human Factor, Special Issue - Visual flight
let me know if you would like me to copy any of them to provide a complete set.
14, 87, 91, 95, 97, 98, 100, 102, 105, 106, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 134, 135, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 142, 143, 144, 145, 146, 148, 149, 150, and a couple of extras, The human Factor, Special Issue - Visual flight
Moderator
Take you up on that.
If you like to scan as doc colour/300 dpi. Either scan to pdf or jpg and we can process the pages into pdf sets. Best to scan at the higher res and then we can look at the quality when resampled lower.
We can worry about what distribution approach to take later on. Centaurus (I hope he doesn't mind my dobbing him in .. but, after all, he started the thread) and I would be quite happy to attend to the hack work.
Will be interesting to see if we can host the sets via the tech log sticky as that would allow the widest convenient coverage.
Between a few of us we should be able to get the whole series on electronic file.
regards, John
If you like to scan as doc colour/300 dpi. Either scan to pdf or jpg and we can process the pages into pdf sets. Best to scan at the higher res and then we can look at the quality when resampled lower.
We can worry about what distribution approach to take later on. Centaurus (I hope he doesn't mind my dobbing him in .. but, after all, he started the thread) and I would be quite happy to attend to the hack work.
Will be interesting to see if we can host the sets via the tech log sticky as that would allow the widest convenient coverage.
Between a few of us we should be able to get the whole series on electronic file.
regards, John
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There's a history of the old Digest and some sample articles at Airways Museum / Civil Aviation Historical Society
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Alice Springs
Posts: 1,744
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have some.
I also have a pile of ASD's, so lets know if you have any missing.
Around about the time of the "takeoff with magnetos switched off" article there had been a flood of ex army people into the industry and the regulator, and most of them would have long forgotten what a magneto was.
Around about the time of the "takeoff with magnetos switched off" article there had been a flood of ex army people into the industry and the regulator, and most of them would have long forgotten what a magneto was.
Moderator
I've sent PMs to those who have posted that they have copies in archive. Plan is to see if we can, if fact, put together a full scanned set. Anyone else who wants to participate and didn't get a PM .. do send me a PM to indicate your interest. If we can get a reasonable number, the workload on each should be fairly small. Aim would be to scan colour at 300 dpi either to .pdf or .jpg for the masters. I'm quite happy to do the collation exercise to .pdf.
Presuming the copyright thing is able to be addressed we can look at a host site to make the files available generally.
If copyright is a problem .. well ... I'm sure that where there's a will, there's a(nother) way to get around the problem.....
Reading a post by bushy brought back a grin and a memory ..
Also the early safety digests were only distributed to those involved in the industry, so they did not have to worry about frightening the pax
One of my folk (now moved on to bigger and better things) commuted from interstate to the workhouse on a FIFO style basis. On one trip back home he was seated next to a not-too-bright-bimbo who happened to observe his reading a crash comic of some sort. I can't recall what it was now but he was reading an aviation masters at one of the the usual Oz universities and it was part of the prescribed reading list.
Anyway .. you guessed it ... post arrival she rushed off to the nearest phone to ring the Feds and report the "terrorist" ... the chap did have an appropriate appearance ... albeit from a continent with little connection to that which she, no doubt, feared.
A few weeks later, after they had spent an appropriate period of time investigating this report, I fielded a phone call from a quite pleasant AFP chap in Canberra .. we sorted out his concern in short order.
What really amazed me was his advice that I should get my folk not to read such documents in flight to avoid giving too much concern to adjacently-seated-not-so-bright-bimbo fellow pax ... reading between the lines, I guessed that he meant something along the lines of "we have better things to do than waste our time investigating aviation folk who read aviation rags in flight .."
Presuming the copyright thing is able to be addressed we can look at a host site to make the files available generally.
If copyright is a problem .. well ... I'm sure that where there's a will, there's a(nother) way to get around the problem.....
Reading a post by bushy brought back a grin and a memory ..
Also the early safety digests were only distributed to those involved in the industry, so they did not have to worry about frightening the pax
One of my folk (now moved on to bigger and better things) commuted from interstate to the workhouse on a FIFO style basis. On one trip back home he was seated next to a not-too-bright-bimbo who happened to observe his reading a crash comic of some sort. I can't recall what it was now but he was reading an aviation masters at one of the the usual Oz universities and it was part of the prescribed reading list.
Anyway .. you guessed it ... post arrival she rushed off to the nearest phone to ring the Feds and report the "terrorist" ... the chap did have an appropriate appearance ... albeit from a continent with little connection to that which she, no doubt, feared.
A few weeks later, after they had spent an appropriate period of time investigating this report, I fielded a phone call from a quite pleasant AFP chap in Canberra .. we sorted out his concern in short order.
What really amazed me was his advice that I should get my folk not to read such documents in flight to avoid giving too much concern to adjacently-seated-not-so-bright-bimbo fellow pax ... reading between the lines, I guessed that he meant something along the lines of "we have better things to do than waste our time investigating aviation folk who read aviation rags in flight .."
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Melbourne, Vic
Posts: 326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are several complete sets of ASDs in the CAHS/Airways Museum collection, plus a scanner on site if someone's interested in putting in the hours to scan them all.
PM me if you dare!
PM me if you dare!
Agreed, FSD are basically rubbish compared to the ASD's.
Have them all stored away as treasure.
Not sure how far back they go.
I'll dig them out.
Have them all stored away as treasure.
Not sure how far back they go.
I'll dig them out.
As I will be away from home all except two more days this month, I will get started on scanning.
To ensure we don't double up, I will scan from 140-150 for starters.
To ensure we don't double up, I will scan from 140-150 for starters.
There are several complete sets of ASDs in the CAHS/Airways Museum collection, plus a scanner on site if someone's interested in putting in the hours to scan them all.
Easier said than done, though ........
.....if someone's interested in putting in the hours to scan them all
