Yak 52 into the sea - Brisbane
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It seems that everywhere that has these incidents CASA was "in the know" before it happened. Quite sad really that action is rarely taken and when it is taken it ends up on here as a slagging match and trolls through the courts for years taking away resources from where they are really needed.
Well said!
J
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Is it being suggested by some here that if Mr Hempel had a CPL then the accident would not have occurred? If so, it is an absurd suggestion.
If it is the case that Mr Hempel went flying that day with only a PPL with a paying passenger then that is a breach of the Act and if he had landed safely then he could have been charged with an offence.
Having said that, if I was offered an opportunity to fly with Mr Hempel on that day I would have jumped at the chance whether he had a CPL or not. To fly with someone as skilled and experienced as he would have been a real thrill and I would have felt as safe as houses.
The sad fact remains that if Mr Hempel had a CPL or an ATPL or was current on the Space Shuttle, this accident would have occured. The nature of the license did not cause the catastrophy, rather it was a number of things which I am sure will be named at some time in the future.
What must be watched out for now is the vulture like attacks on the GA industry by the media. It has already started with a page spread in the Sunday Mail discussing how dangerous RAA aircraft are because we had two crashes in two weeks of a motor powered glider and a YAK. God help us...
If it is the case that Mr Hempel went flying that day with only a PPL with a paying passenger then that is a breach of the Act and if he had landed safely then he could have been charged with an offence.
Having said that, if I was offered an opportunity to fly with Mr Hempel on that day I would have jumped at the chance whether he had a CPL or not. To fly with someone as skilled and experienced as he would have been a real thrill and I would have felt as safe as houses.
The sad fact remains that if Mr Hempel had a CPL or an ATPL or was current on the Space Shuttle, this accident would have occured. The nature of the license did not cause the catastrophy, rather it was a number of things which I am sure will be named at some time in the future.
What must be watched out for now is the vulture like attacks on the GA industry by the media. It has already started with a page spread in the Sunday Mail discussing how dangerous RAA aircraft are because we had two crashes in two weeks of a motor powered glider and a YAK. God help us...
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Notmyc150v2, you need to read the thread in its' entirety. It was suggested that a medical condition was the reason for the fact that he may have allegedly had only a PPL, in that his first class medical may have been lost. If I was offered an aerobatic ride with someone that was allegedly experiencing blackouts I would politely decline.
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VH-XXX do you know that for a fact....A lot of 'suggested' & 'allegedly' & 'may-have' in your fact filled piece. In fact 2 'allegedly's in one paragraph shows you have no idea about the facts & are just reiterating pure speculation about the circumstances. NOTMY150v2, yes he was a legend to fly with & great to learn from, especially with aerobatics. Terrible loss for everybody. Until official info is released there is too much grey in the warbirds/licence area to tell right from wrong. Anyone without messages of sympathy here is only stirring everyone else with no valuable information(speculation is not worth the effort of typing). Time & place should be once the coroner & CASA reports are released. Innocent until proven... well you know. I just hope if I went in an accident I would be left in peace unless official facts proved otherwise...now where's my piece of wood to touch.
cheers
cheers
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Perhaps the thread should be split, due to the sensitive nature of the topic. Condolences on one side and comments on another.
Perhaps its a good time to remember the rules and why they are in place. Learnt usually the hard way through years of trial and error.
RIP Mr Hempel and Mr Lovell.
Perhaps its a good time to remember the rules and why they are in place. Learnt usually the hard way through years of trial and error.
Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect. - Captain A. G. Lamplugh, British Aviation Insurance Group, London. Circa early 1930's
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"there is too much grey in the warbirds/licence area to tell right from wrong"
Pffttt
- Obviously goddamit you couldn't find the info in Google. The Warbird AOC / system is VERY clear in fact.
This thread is not a memorial and we can all benefit from what is discussed.
Aside from the rules and choosing whether or not to follow them, promoting a safety culture amongst the industry is paramount amongst pilots. If you see someone doing the wrong thing, like flying without a medical, 'pri-mercial' flights etc, etc, speak to them about it and don't wait until something happens to vent your frustrations!
Pffttt
- Obviously goddamit you couldn't find the info in Google. The Warbird AOC / system is VERY clear in fact.
This thread is not a memorial and we can all benefit from what is discussed.
Aside from the rules and choosing whether or not to follow them, promoting a safety culture amongst the industry is paramount amongst pilots. If you see someone doing the wrong thing, like flying without a medical, 'pri-mercial' flights etc, etc, speak to them about it and don't wait until something happens to vent your frustrations!
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notmyC150v2
Yes......and IF he shouldn't have been making that flight on that day, and IF he didn't do so, this accident would not have occurred.
Di
The sad fact remains that if Mr Hempel had a CPL or an ATPL or was current on the Space Shuttle, this accident would have occured. The nature of the license did not cause the catastrophy, rather it was a number of things which I am sure will be named at some time in the future.
Di
. If you see someone doing the wrong thing, like flying without a medical, 'pri-mercial' flights etc, etc, speak to them about it and don't wait until something happens to vent your frustrations!
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The Warbird AOC / system is VERY clear in fact.
This thread is not a memorial and we can all benefit from what is discussed.
Aside from the rules and choosing whether or not to follow them, promoting a safety culture amongst the industry is paramount amongst pilots. If you see someone doing the wrong thing, like flying without a medical, 'pri-mercial' flights etc, etc, speak to them about it and don't wait until something happens to vent your frustrations!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Because the pilot held only a PPL, the ramifications from this accident will probably be felt throughout the entire war bird movement with resultant adverse and, in many cases, unwarranted publicity.
Despite his undoubted talent and flying ability, deliberately breaking rules (the law), causing potential risk to the war bird organisation and placing passengers in financial jeopardy (insurance?) should not be considered the actions of a "legend."
This thread is not a memorial and we can all benefit from what is discussed.
Aside from the rules and choosing whether or not to follow them, promoting a safety culture amongst the industry is paramount amongst pilots. If you see someone doing the wrong thing, like flying without a medical, 'pri-mercial' flights etc, etc, speak to them about it and don't wait until something happens to vent your frustrations!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Because the pilot held only a PPL, the ramifications from this accident will probably be felt throughout the entire war bird movement with resultant adverse and, in many cases, unwarranted publicity.
Despite his undoubted talent and flying ability, deliberately breaking rules (the law), causing potential risk to the war bird organisation and placing passengers in financial jeopardy (insurance?) should not be considered the actions of a "legend."
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Horatioleafblower did, but got the sack for it 
But he'll be better for it and will know to do it anonymously next time
Spot on Nick Charles, couldn't have said it better myself.
My instructor told me a long time ago that if I am going to do something dodgey or not kosher, do it alone and away from innocent people, but that being said, try not to do it in the first place. It's one of the reasons why many an RA-Aus pilot fly single seaters, because they don't want to hurt others, or atleast minimise the chances of hurting others. One perfect example of this was a gent who passed on last easter, he had known for a long time that he was not up to the task (for medical reasons) so he downgraded (upgraded?) to a single seater and flew that for years until ultimately one day he passed on, unfortunately whilst at the controls.
But he'll be better for it and will know to do it anonymously next time
Spot on Nick Charles, couldn't have said it better myself.
My instructor told me a long time ago that if I am going to do something dodgey or not kosher, do it alone and away from innocent people, but that being said, try not to do it in the first place. It's one of the reasons why many an RA-Aus pilot fly single seaters, because they don't want to hurt others, or atleast minimise the chances of hurting others. One perfect example of this was a gent who passed on last easter, he had known for a long time that he was not up to the task (for medical reasons) so he downgraded (upgraded?) to a single seater and flew that for years until ultimately one day he passed on, unfortunately whilst at the controls.
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Even his website advertisements break the rules. Joy flights are NOT permitted in a warbird. Also how can you inform the passenger of the circumstances pertaining to flying in an L aircraft (eg own risk etc...)before payment is recieved if you sell gift certificates. This passenger didnt buy his own gift certificate, therefor this rule MUST have been broken too.
The rules are not made to be broken, seems just about every one was in this case though.
Lots of people close to the organisation would have been well aware of this too.
The rules are not made to be broken, seems just about every one was in this case though.
Lots of people close to the organisation would have been well aware of this too.
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True Legends are people who are rightly held up as good examples to the rest of us.
They are not folk who treat the rules of society with gay abandon.
No matter what the manipulative skill was of Mr Hempel he can hardly be held up as good example to anyone.
They are not folk who treat the rules of society with gay abandon.
No matter what the manipulative skill was of Mr Hempel he can hardly be held up as good example to anyone.
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Socket - good call, however under the normal procedure with a gift certificate the passenger would have been required to sign the waiver before the flight took place (you would hope). We do this where I hang out, the gift certificate is bought on-line for an Adventure flight, then they must read the Limited part and sign with name and address indicating their acceptance. When being signed off for the Warbird AOC this organisation was required to modify their website to change “Joy” flights to “Adventure” flights so I’m surprised that their website is still offering Joy flights – obviously no-one checked.
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VH-XXX, the rules are very clear, the circumstances of whether or not this a/c was either on an AOC or on the warbirds register is in doubt. Also the reason why BH had only a PPL(if it was), & what type of medical he was holding at the time. You need to step back & look at what people are saying & not a narrow opinion & interpretation of people's comments. Anyone can google this info, but the facts to apply to this one in particular will be kept very quiet until the investigation is over. Keep googling...
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Barry hasn't even had his funeral yet and people are bagging him on this thread. The full report is far from being released. Speculating on rumour without hard facts is really inappropriate and insensitive to his family.
