Any Airlines In Australia Cost Cutting This Much?

[airsupport]

I know Airlines in Australia are taking various cost cutting measures, but have any gone this far?

While this may be legal in Canada, what price do you put on safety?

Okay they have seat cushions for flotation devices AFTER you hit the water, but with a life jacket you can be prepared BEFORE hitting the water.

Imagine knowing you were going to ditch, then having to get your seat cushion up and out with you, instead of being well prepared with your life jacket on and maybe also using the seat cushion.

What about children and disabled passengers?

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One airline is removing life vests from all its planes to save fuel - and passengers whose planes ditch will have to use seat cushions to save themselves.

A spokeswoman for Air Canada's regional carrier Jazz said Transport Canada regulations allowed airlines to use flotation devices instead of life vests within 80km of shore, the Associated Press reported.

Safety cards in seat pockets now told passengers to use seat cushions as flotation devices.

Jazz spokeswoman Manon Stuart said Jazz was a transcontinental airline that never flew over the ocean.

Jazz planes do fly over the Great Lakes and along the eastern seaboard from Halifax to Boston to New York.

Ms Stuart said all Jazz's flights operated within 80km of shore.

Jazz operates 880 flights daily to 85 destinations in North America but said the number of flights over water were minimal.

A commercial life vest weighs roughly 500g.

[airsupport]

Seems crazy to me, don't need lifejackets if you are 50 or 60 kilometres out to sea, only if you are 80 or more.

As they fly to Boston and New York, I guess this is okay with the FAA too.

[RENURPP]

You can do exactly the same in Aus.
The rule is not new, the practise maybe.

[airsupport]

Yes, but as I asked, does any current Operator in Australia do that?

I would like to know so that I can avoid them.

[sthaussiepilot]

I know of a few Airlines that do this,

In fact one I used to work for had this.... I brought it up numerous times with Managment and with the CP....

Always came down to falling on deaf ears...

I always ensured there were 2 Lifejackets in the Cockpit... I know its not enough, but its all I could "smuggle" aboard...


I believe all A/C should have Lifejackets, and if the airlines really wish, the seats aswell... but Life vests I belive are crucial...

[Pluto's gone]

Just out of curiosity anyone know how many times life jackets have actually been used by a ditching airliner?

Most to ACI's i've seen has resulted in the aircraft hitting the water a high velocity (RIP) resulting in no need for an LJ.

Seat cushion v life jacket.... at least the seat cushin tries to save your arse.

[43Inches]

Do a search on successful ditchings, there have been many survivable landings on water. In fact a lot have happened close to land and near airports, a distance rule doesn't make much sense at all. If you can't swim a few metres offshore may be too far.

The high speed impacts make better viewing/drama for TV so tend to be focused on for ratings, nice graphics for effect etc...

I don't have any data on it but i would suggest that life jackets on aircraft have saved more than one person, and that outweighs any financial savings.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Given 99% of the population would not be capable of swimming 1km to shore, under ideal conditions let alone after the shock of a ditching - and with injuries, it begs the question where did they get 80km from?

If true - sheer unadulterated bean counter stupidity.

[Howard Hughes]

Probably more to do with response time v time in the water for rescue boats/helicopters.

I flew for a regional that used flotation cushions, but supplied life jackets for crew and infants.

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

There are very good reasons why inflatable jackets are used over inherently bouyant devices such as seat cushions in aircraft.

Islander Jock, there's another important safety consideration to add to your list:

(5) Inherently buoyant devices (and pre-maturely deployed inflatable jackets) are nigh impossible to push under water to reach a submerged exit (sucks to be the last one out).

I remember the incredibly strict regulations imposed on us (naval aviation) to ensure that only non-water activated jackets were carried aboard aircraft (the deckhands all wore jackets which would inflate if they fell overboard and we had some identical-looking jackets for pax).

[Koizi]

I was flying a Thai airways ATR 72 in nothern Thailand and noticed that the placard on the seat back said to use the seat cushion. I checked the pouches under the seats and they were obviously empty.
I thought it was wierd - but apparently not.
At least we were flying over mountains so I'm not sure either would be particularly useful in an emergency.

[airsupport]

Of course they are not always required even in Australia, I remember decades ago when we operated F27s, some flights had to have them and some didn't, however after one or two delays after an aircraft switch while a set of life jackets had to be located and fitted, or switched from the other aircraft, the Company decided to just have them on all Aircraft.

It is the distance especially in this case, 60-70Ks is a long way out waiting for rescue.

[Frynog]

Air New Zealand does it, Dash 8's tell you to use the cushion and they most certainly do fly over water, alot!

[MonsterC01]

80 Km rule

I think you'll find that the 80km rule was devised under the assumption that an aircraft that encounters a problem within 80km of shore is usually high enough to make it back over land. Probably sounded good to some regulatory hack at the time.

I fly trans-pacific and we don't even carry life rafts anymore! the theory being that the door slides can be disconnected and used as a raft. Works ok in the evacuation training pool, but how'd you like to test their sea going prowess in the middle of the pacific.

I suppose a floating cushion is fine as long as your conscious, un-injured, and didn't ditch at night. Last time i checked airlines didn't fit seat cushions with whistles and signal lights as standard.

[Jetpipe2]

What about rafts

Whilst the debate rages about cushions or life jackets, if your 80Km's out to sea there isnt going to be a life raft on board either, so a jacket might be a good idea.

Current CASA rules for rafts are seperated from the carriage of life jackets, so in some cases you could be floating out in the ocean hanging on to your seat cushion...............

Rafts are not needed within 400 Nm of land or SE distance from an Adequate in most Australian commercial operations now.

[sthaussiepilot]

Fair enough to be able to rip the airbags off the sides,

but what about in something like a Titan, or Fokker 50 or Saab340 no side bags there, rafts are good for longer times in water... or for shelter

Lifejackets are slightly better, for shorter times etc

just my opinion...

[airsupport]

I guess you could always travel with your own personal life jacket.

[ZEEBEE]

US Airlines have been doing this for some time....

It prompted George Carlin to comment;

"Fancy floating around in the Atlantic hanging on to a seat cushion full of beer farts ???"