744 FO position
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: anywhere the job offer is!
Posts: 256
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
G'day Winglet.
The "grass is always greener on the otherside of the fence"
I suppose you have probably figured it out about now, but in AirNZ anything above SO or 733 FO is a senior position. At the moment i believe the latest 733 Capt have been in the company for 10 years.
To get an interview with Air NZ you generally need a around 3000hours. Most of these guys/gals are Ex Link drivers, B1900, Saabs/Dash8, or ATR72. So when they see you having walked into a 744 with 300 hours they are probably green with envy.
Anyway I know what you mean about feeling like you're half retired flying the 744. The actually flying sucks, sitting there in the middle of the night for 15 hours. Atleast the days off are great. 737 flying is awesome, hands on, and enjoyable, but then you do work harder for your $$$. And Air NZ pay compared to the rest of the world is poor.
Its a shame we cant have our cake and eat it as well.
Work to live, don't live to work, and then everything will be better. Go find a hobby to fill in your time.
Good Luck with the next 35 + years
The "grass is always greener on the otherside of the fence"
I suppose you have probably figured it out about now, but in AirNZ anything above SO or 733 FO is a senior position. At the moment i believe the latest 733 Capt have been in the company for 10 years.
To get an interview with Air NZ you generally need a around 3000hours. Most of these guys/gals are Ex Link drivers, B1900, Saabs/Dash8, or ATR72. So when they see you having walked into a 744 with 300 hours they are probably green with envy.
Anyway I know what you mean about feeling like you're half retired flying the 744. The actually flying sucks, sitting there in the middle of the night for 15 hours. Atleast the days off are great. 737 flying is awesome, hands on, and enjoyable, but then you do work harder for your $$$. And Air NZ pay compared to the rest of the world is poor.
Its a shame we cant have our cake and eat it as well.
Work to live, don't live to work, and then everything will be better. Go find a hobby to fill in your time.
Good Luck with the next 35 + years
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Red Dot
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Gravox and all,
Thank you all for the replies.
When we are in a system, we just have to suck on our thumbs and live with it, or look for another. After having the initial passport to airlines' door, shouldn't we go seek for the best overall package that suits? Culture, work environment, family, location, suitability of job, life style... the list is endless. I'm still finding my cup of tea.
For where i'm right now, when i felt that i prefer to be on a round the world trip rather than being home, i knew something was very wrong.
Cheers
Thank you all for the replies.
When we are in a system, we just have to suck on our thumbs and live with it, or look for another. After having the initial passport to airlines' door, shouldn't we go seek for the best overall package that suits? Culture, work environment, family, location, suitability of job, life style... the list is endless. I'm still finding my cup of tea.
For where i'm right now, when i felt that i prefer to be on a round the world trip rather than being home, i knew something was very wrong.
Cheers
Silly Old Git
Do you know the food biz? YumCha? Chilli mudcrab?
Many hot Euro model girl here.Top Porsche dealer .Racetrack,Casino
Darwhine chinese eateries suck, you make money quick
Many hot Euro model girl here.Top Porsche dealer .Racetrack,Casino
Darwhine chinese eateries suck, you make money quick
Surely you are bonded unless you paid for a heavy jet endorsement and 40 hours in a Bizjet yourself?? If you're not then that's unbelievable. Most SQ cadets are heavily bonded.
Winglet Fever
Like a lot of people here I'm left with more questions than answers!
Nothing like unbridled enthusiasm and the wisdom of youth to solve all problems that an airline career throws up.
Just a question though. You seem to have this TRUMP card as well as a very healthy positive ATTITUDE.
Quote "trump card is not with regards to hours only. It also because I also have another 35 to 40 years of useful life to the company with a rating." Unquote
Unless I'm mistaken - at your next Airline Interview and you smack down that TRUMP card on the playing table to seize that job that is so obviously YOURS do you think that the interviewer might question whether your going to bestow ALL those 40 years to his airline thus repaying his generosity for giving a 1500 hour pilot controls of his 150 million dollar machine?
Might he also question your commitment to your current airline and whether that commitment will continue in his neck of the woods?
Be careful who you trample in the rush to that seat that you KNOW is YOURS.
In any case enjoy the journey - alas I think you may have missed the best part.
Like a lot of people here I'm left with more questions than answers!
Nothing like unbridled enthusiasm and the wisdom of youth to solve all problems that an airline career throws up.
Just a question though. You seem to have this TRUMP card as well as a very healthy positive ATTITUDE.
Quote "trump card is not with regards to hours only. It also because I also have another 35 to 40 years of useful life to the company with a rating." Unquote
Unless I'm mistaken - at your next Airline Interview and you smack down that TRUMP card on the playing table to seize that job that is so obviously YOURS do you think that the interviewer might question whether your going to bestow ALL those 40 years to his airline thus repaying his generosity for giving a 1500 hour pilot controls of his 150 million dollar machine?
Might he also question your commitment to your current airline and whether that commitment will continue in his neck of the woods?
Be careful who you trample in the rush to that seat that you KNOW is YOURS.
In any case enjoy the journey - alas I think you may have missed the best part.
Last edited by ad-astra; 27th Aug 2008 at 23:55.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Red Dot
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Ad-astra,
I totally agree with you. I'm not in any hurry. Have to convince myself before i can step forward to convince the interviewer.
All these talk right now is just talk. Just here to gather info to plan my move, thats if its going to happen.
As for the bond, it is a big sum but i'm currently short of 40%. SQ gave me the edge, its just right for me to return it if there's no fit between comapny and me.
As to if i've missed the best part, i'll let you know at the end of the light tunnel. Individual's datum is different. Enjoying is what i do best and i keep options very open.
Cheers
I totally agree with you. I'm not in any hurry. Have to convince myself before i can step forward to convince the interviewer.
All these talk right now is just talk. Just here to gather info to plan my move, thats if its going to happen.
As for the bond, it is a big sum but i'm currently short of 40%. SQ gave me the edge, its just right for me to return it if there's no fit between comapny and me.
As to if i've missed the best part, i'll let you know at the end of the light tunnel. Individual's datum is different. Enjoying is what i do best and i keep options very open.
Cheers
Join Date: May 2003
Location: PH 298/7.4DME
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Astounding...
Some of you clearly have just had a slap of reality based on the condescending expressions in your posts.
Before judging someone based on their position in a company vs. their experience and nature of their query, I think it should be noted that outside the Australian and NZ borders, the rest of the world is not nearly as anal about giving low time pilots exposure to jets. And for some reason, just because it is not the norm here we see this as either a major wrong doing on the part of that company/airline, or a reason to slander due to jealousy, or both! Some of you even go as far as saying things like "1500hrs total on type and already a B744 FO? Wow, I'm scared, and never flying with that carrier again!"
Well, there are airlines that are have a far more dubious safety history than those in Singapore, be assured. Don't forget that with the level of automation and inflexibility of SOPs used in airlines in this day and age there is less room and potential for poor handling/inexperience related errors to become than ever before.
There is a world outside Australia and New Zealand...and guess what - they're not sitting still and watching us lead by example, that's for sure!
520.
Before judging someone based on their position in a company vs. their experience and nature of their query, I think it should be noted that outside the Australian and NZ borders, the rest of the world is not nearly as anal about giving low time pilots exposure to jets. And for some reason, just because it is not the norm here we see this as either a major wrong doing on the part of that company/airline, or a reason to slander due to jealousy, or both! Some of you even go as far as saying things like "1500hrs total on type and already a B744 FO? Wow, I'm scared, and never flying with that carrier again!"
Well, there are airlines that are have a far more dubious safety history than those in Singapore, be assured. Don't forget that with the level of automation and inflexibility of SOPs used in airlines in this day and age there is less room and potential for poor handling/inexperience related errors to become than ever before.
There is a world outside Australia and New Zealand...and guess what - they're not sitting still and watching us lead by example, that's for sure!
520.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 704
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
winglet
In your shoes I'd be accumulating another 1500-3500 hours right where you are. At the rate you are going that's 18 months to four years tops.
With 3-5000 TT you'd surely be a walk-in DFO anywhere you wanted?
Beware of the impetuousness, the impatience of youth. There are old pilots, and bold pilots... You know the rest.
In your shoes I'd be accumulating another 1500-3500 hours right where you are. At the rate you are going that's 18 months to four years tops.
With 3-5000 TT you'd surely be a walk-in DFO anywhere you wanted?
Beware of the impetuousness, the impatience of youth. There are old pilots, and bold pilots... You know the rest.
Guest
Posts: n/a
C-520, yep spot on the money .
And just to rub salt into the wounds, al ot of these guys who are cadets from Asia are smart, switched on cookies with high academic ability who learn VERY quickly. They are also humble about their abilities and can accept being mentored.
Unlike some of the Gen Y Aussie and Kiwi types who think that because they have 500 hrs FO time on a jet and maybe 1000 Metro command that they are qualified to be the next Kingsford Smith. Gimme a break...
These cadets are TRAINED into airline environment from the start of their careers. After 4-5 years as an FO they have been through the cyclic renewal program in the Sim, sat through all sorts of EPs, LVPs CRM, CWOps ect ect and have high standard of knowledge and pretty decent experience.
1500 hrs TAE as FO means that they have ~3000 hrs in the aeroplane. I have no doubt that such a candidate would be quite good at their work.
.And just to rub salt into the wounds, al ot of these guys who are cadets from Asia are smart, switched on cookies with high academic ability who learn VERY quickly. They are also humble about their abilities and can accept being mentored.
Unlike some of the Gen Y Aussie and Kiwi types who think that because they have 500 hrs FO time on a jet and maybe 1000 Metro command that they are qualified to be the next Kingsford Smith. Gimme a break...
These cadets are TRAINED into airline environment from the start of their careers. After 4-5 years as an FO they have been through the cyclic renewal program in the Sim, sat through all sorts of EPs, LVPs CRM, CWOps ect ect and have high standard of knowledge and pretty decent experience.
1500 hrs TAE as FO means that they have ~3000 hrs in the aeroplane. I have no doubt that such a candidate would be quite good at their work.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thats all well and good, but the reality is that you have to compete for the job and the minimum requirements are 2000hrs at the moment.The competition is fairly stiff as far as total time goes, most have between 3 and 7k hours. Winglet would be one of the few with 744 time though so that may be an advantage to him/her....although any 744 drivers on the panel would surely ask some type questions, if winglet is a sharp cookie then that would be fine and would be a chance to show his/her metal.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: NZ
Posts: 656
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Winglet,
Latest successful interviewees with Air NZ have been told up to 24mths before a start. Things have slowed considerably in terms of actually hiring, although Air NZ are interviewing reguarly at the moment, it's more an exercise in stopping guys and gals leaving NZ for offshore jobs or AirNZ Link pilots leaving for local competitors... they believe there'll be a big requirement for pilots in the next 18-24mths and are unusually being proactive in preparation for a potential shortage of experienced candidates...
S2K
Latest successful interviewees with Air NZ have been told up to 24mths before a start. Things have slowed considerably in terms of actually hiring, although Air NZ are interviewing reguarly at the moment, it's more an exercise in stopping guys and gals leaving NZ for offshore jobs or AirNZ Link pilots leaving for local competitors... they believe there'll be a big requirement for pilots in the next 18-24mths and are unusually being proactive in preparation for a potential shortage of experienced candidates...
S2K
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Red Dot
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
YoDawg
The "lah" never fails to make me laugh. its totally symbolic and i love it. With the world opening up, we just have to accept the other variants other then Brits and Americans'.
when i was in NZ, i simply shy away from the asian crowd especially in the cities. Palmy was nice to begin with until the influx, myself included. Eastern side is still fine. For now.
VH Cheer up
I totally agree. I'm planning on 24 to 36 months from now. That will be half way point before up for command. Any time after that, i might be more drawn to stay. Meanwhile i might join in the queue with the rest of china, malaysia, india and singapore citizens for application for PR.
Friend of mine was knocking on Emirate's door with similar qualifications as myself. Seems like they have lowered their requirements for those with high ratio of jet to TT hour FOs with international experience. that might have a knockon effect as well?
Ralph
1500hr pilots here are rather well trained like you've mentioned but what we lack is time in the aircraft. Nothing beats real time events to learn from and that comes with time. For myself, i must say i'm luck to be in the 44 as she is aging gracefully with constant small faults. So we are kinda forced to learn the systems, like it or not.
cjam
i love interviews. Haha.. most FOs here read at least 1 chapter of the manuals in cruise. Hope by then, i'll be able to answer to him/her and most importantly, answer it to myself.
SQK2000
looks like the time frame is just about right for me. With the current high fuel price, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed for SQ to convert a few older triples into frieghter. Would be nice to get a rating on it before leaving.
A few of my NZ course mates are now SOs with Cathay. Good and motivated pilots leaving the country is a cause of concern!
All in all, thank you guys for your contribution to my quest. Appreciated. Casually mention winglet if you see a yellow boy in your company. my shout.
The "lah" never fails to make me laugh. its totally symbolic and i love it. With the world opening up, we just have to accept the other variants other then Brits and Americans'.
when i was in NZ, i simply shy away from the asian crowd especially in the cities. Palmy was nice to begin with until the influx, myself included. Eastern side is still fine. For now.
VH Cheer up
I totally agree. I'm planning on 24 to 36 months from now. That will be half way point before up for command. Any time after that, i might be more drawn to stay. Meanwhile i might join in the queue with the rest of china, malaysia, india and singapore citizens for application for PR.
Friend of mine was knocking on Emirate's door with similar qualifications as myself. Seems like they have lowered their requirements for those with high ratio of jet to TT hour FOs with international experience. that might have a knockon effect as well?
Ralph
1500hr pilots here are rather well trained like you've mentioned but what we lack is time in the aircraft. Nothing beats real time events to learn from and that comes with time. For myself, i must say i'm luck to be in the 44 as she is aging gracefully with constant small faults. So we are kinda forced to learn the systems, like it or not.
cjam
i love interviews. Haha.. most FOs here read at least 1 chapter of the manuals in cruise. Hope by then, i'll be able to answer to him/her and most importantly, answer it to myself.
SQK2000
looks like the time frame is just about right for me. With the current high fuel price, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed for SQ to convert a few older triples into frieghter. Would be nice to get a rating on it before leaving.
A few of my NZ course mates are now SOs with Cathay. Good and motivated pilots leaving the country is a cause of concern!
All in all, thank you guys for your contribution to my quest. Appreciated. Casually mention winglet if you see a yellow boy in your company. my shout.
