RAAF Lifestyle, Flying
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RAAF Lifestyle, Flying
Gday,
I am a high school student considering a career as a Pilot in the RAAF. I have researched the commercial sector, but I have not been able to find any concrete info on the RAAF. I was wondering:
Cheers.
I am a high school student considering a career as a Pilot in the RAAF. I have researched the commercial sector, but I have not been able to find any concrete info on the RAAF. I was wondering:
- Approx how many hours pw would actually be spent "flying"
- How is the lifestyle?
- Is there a time consuming prep b4 a flight?
- How often would you transfer types, or would you stay on one type - say C17 for a number of years?
- Any other info on RAAF life would be appreciated.
Cheers.
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Mate, the RAAF was the best experience of my life! The things youll get to do there, the mates you make, you will probably never do or make in your lifetime after the RAAF! Go for it!
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In a word: do it!
Mate - Aussie has summed it up succinctly. Allow me to extrapolate unneccessarily:
Having now been in an airline job for two years (after 15 years in the RAAF) I can honestly say that flying in the RAAF was THE mother-fvcking greatest experience of my life.
And I should point out, I have done some frickin' awesome things: like doing lines of coke off the breasts of 18 year-old Russian whores whilst eating KFC chips and gravy.
In short: do the RAAF thing, no one ever does civvy flying before they join the RAAF and then says "man, that civvy flying was SH!T-TINS better than the RAAF!!!"
Having now been in an airline job for two years (after 15 years in the RAAF) I can honestly say that flying in the RAAF was THE mother-fvcking greatest experience of my life.
And I should point out, I have done some frickin' awesome things: like doing lines of coke off the breasts of 18 year-old Russian whores whilst eating KFC chips and gravy.
In short: do the RAAF thing, no one ever does civvy flying before they join the RAAF and then says "man, that civvy flying was SH!T-TINS better than the RAAF!!!"
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Frozo,
I was with you until the KFC chips-and-gravy bit.
No sane person does that. Everyone knows Burger King chips rule. You Ronnies have no taste.
lc_461, I didn't do it and now I wish I had. 14 years - so farkin' what? If you're 18 now, you'll be 32 with a degree, good flying training and line experience with probably more repsonsibility than same-age guys who've come up through the civvy side, the opportunity to handle some heavy metal in interesting situations (you can't tell me that dropping a Herc into Kabul on a tactical approach doesn't teach you a thing or ten about hand-flying, which won't come in handy in your A380 15 years later...
). You'll also probably have some actual management experience which most similar age guys won't have.
Money-wise, sure the RAAF might not pay as well as your grad trainee mates at Macquarie Bank but you'll have been getting paid through uni and you're not working in some rat-farm the whole time. You're doing fun stuff and getting your hands dirty. Then if you get sick of flying and decide not to stay in or go to an airline, trust me - guys with degrees and mil experience are snapped up by the corporate sector faster than they can be turned out.
You also have the opportunity to keep learning through your career, the ADF is pretty good at supporting members doing further study.
And the beer at officers' messes is cheap and girls like guys in uniform, or so I'm told!
Jet Pilot video - clearly a Kiwi wokka pilot p!ssed off at some Aussie knucks he's observed in a bar!
Word of advice - the girls behind the bar at the Bin have seen it aaaallllllllll before.
I was with you until the KFC chips-and-gravy bit.
No sane person does that. Everyone knows Burger King chips rule. You Ronnies have no taste.
lc_461, I didn't do it and now I wish I had. 14 years - so farkin' what? If you're 18 now, you'll be 32 with a degree, good flying training and line experience with probably more repsonsibility than same-age guys who've come up through the civvy side, the opportunity to handle some heavy metal in interesting situations (you can't tell me that dropping a Herc into Kabul on a tactical approach doesn't teach you a thing or ten about hand-flying, which won't come in handy in your A380 15 years later...
). You'll also probably have some actual management experience which most similar age guys won't have.Money-wise, sure the RAAF might not pay as well as your grad trainee mates at Macquarie Bank but you'll have been getting paid through uni and you're not working in some rat-farm the whole time. You're doing fun stuff and getting your hands dirty. Then if you get sick of flying and decide not to stay in or go to an airline, trust me - guys with degrees and mil experience are snapped up by the corporate sector faster than they can be turned out.
You also have the opportunity to keep learning through your career, the ADF is pretty good at supporting members doing further study.
And the beer at officers' messes is cheap and girls like guys in uniform, or so I'm told!
Jet Pilot video - clearly a Kiwi wokka pilot p!ssed off at some Aussie knucks he's observed in a bar!
Word of advice - the girls behind the bar at the Bin have seen it aaaallllllllll before.
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Thanks a lot for your replies, I really appreciate it.
However are there any RAAF Pilots that could give any further insight?
Thanks again guys, and for the website Keg.
However are there any RAAF Pilots that could give any further insight?
Thanks again guys, and for the website Keg.
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Mate, reading the above what more encouragement do you need!
As someone who is in the training pipeline at the moment and has had a limited experience to both civil and military flying all the above posts are spot on. I'm chomping at the bit to start (only 130 odd days till grad!)
Get your but into gear and research ADFA as well as DEO options if you have missed the ship for ADFA 09.
PS. The ADFA guys im working with atm loved the place, it's really cruisy* with a great lifestyle and drinking habbits.
*unless you do an eng degree, then it's hard working and even harder drinking.
As someone who is in the training pipeline at the moment and has had a limited experience to both civil and military flying all the above posts are spot on. I'm chomping at the bit to start (only 130 odd days till grad!)
Get your but into gear and research ADFA as well as DEO options if you have missed the ship for ADFA 09.
PS. The ADFA guys im working with atm loved the place, it's really cruisy* with a great lifestyle and drinking habbits.
*unless you do an eng degree, then it's hard working and even harder drinking.
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RAAF flying & lifestyle
LC461, the answers to your question are honestly extremely variable, depending on which aircraft type you fly, and other factors. To give you a taste, I'll give you a few thoughts based on my experience within Air Lift Group. While fighters (Air Combat Group) are the obvious, glamorous desire of most wannabes, ALG is pretty busy at the moment with a lot of operational flying in the Middle East.
Hours per week actually flying. Not as much as the airlines. You don't tend to fly regularly, it depends on when the tasking comes up. Therefore, some weeks, some months even can be pretty bare, while others are busy. SQNs that deploy (Middle East, Timor, Solomon Islands) tend to end up with higher peaks and lower troughs than the non-deploying SQNs. To give an example, here's a 12-month snapshot by month: 35, 5, 6, 0, 0, 42, 74, 73, 71, 5, 59, 11. Total 381 hours. That includes a 3-month deployment. The bare period was when others were deployed!
The other issue is that RAAF pilots have 'secondary duties' to perform. They are the publications officer, times officer, weapons officer, navigation officer, mess entertainments officer, tactics officer etc etc. So, the basic week is still Monday to Friday, 8am to 5 pm. You're always busy with something, even if it's just study.
Lifestyle. Fantastic! There's a great sense of cameraderie. The flying, no matter which SQN you're at, is excellent (as long as you take the right attitude). Operational flying gives you a great sense of satisfaction. However (there's always something!), repetitive deployments to the MEAO do wear thin, particularly if you're married. So 37SQN in ALG and the Orion SQNs are good for junior pilots to get early operational flying, but if you're more senior and married with kids it can be a bit of a drag.
Preparation time. The RAAF multi-engine SQNs progress co-pilots to command in pretty short time, 2 to 3 years. So it expects co-pilots to work reasonably hard and consistently to achieve that. Having said that, I've never thought it was particularly onerous, just consistent effort both at work and at home. (Pilot's course is another issue, yes it's hard work constantly!)
Aircraft transfers. People generally stay within their FEG (Force Element Group). So, once you're a fighter/maritime/air lift pilot you'll generally stay there ... unless you elect to go (and are selected, and pass) QFI (Qualified Flying Instructor). After a stint at one of the schools, however, you'd still expect to go back to your original type (or FEG at least). There are occasional cross-FEG transfers. Within ALG, because there's a number of different SQNs & aircraft, there can be slightly more movement around, but due to keeping corporate experience, the primary expectation would be to stay on type.
As with others, I never regretted the time spent in the RAAF. Like any job, it frustrates you at times, and there's the point at which it's right for you to move on. But for a young guy straight out of school, providing you're genuinely committed, and clearly understand what you're getting into, it's a great option. Can I suggest that you should contact Defence Recruiting and see if they can put you in contact with some junior pilots at a local base to be able to get a full description and so you can ask questions. Ask about ADFA and pilot's course too.
All the best.
Hours per week actually flying. Not as much as the airlines. You don't tend to fly regularly, it depends on when the tasking comes up. Therefore, some weeks, some months even can be pretty bare, while others are busy. SQNs that deploy (Middle East, Timor, Solomon Islands) tend to end up with higher peaks and lower troughs than the non-deploying SQNs. To give an example, here's a 12-month snapshot by month: 35, 5, 6, 0, 0, 42, 74, 73, 71, 5, 59, 11. Total 381 hours. That includes a 3-month deployment. The bare period was when others were deployed!
The other issue is that RAAF pilots have 'secondary duties' to perform. They are the publications officer, times officer, weapons officer, navigation officer, mess entertainments officer, tactics officer etc etc. So, the basic week is still Monday to Friday, 8am to 5 pm. You're always busy with something, even if it's just study.
Lifestyle. Fantastic! There's a great sense of cameraderie. The flying, no matter which SQN you're at, is excellent (as long as you take the right attitude). Operational flying gives you a great sense of satisfaction. However (there's always something!), repetitive deployments to the MEAO do wear thin, particularly if you're married. So 37SQN in ALG and the Orion SQNs are good for junior pilots to get early operational flying, but if you're more senior and married with kids it can be a bit of a drag.
Preparation time. The RAAF multi-engine SQNs progress co-pilots to command in pretty short time, 2 to 3 years. So it expects co-pilots to work reasonably hard and consistently to achieve that. Having said that, I've never thought it was particularly onerous, just consistent effort both at work and at home. (Pilot's course is another issue, yes it's hard work constantly!)
Aircraft transfers. People generally stay within their FEG (Force Element Group). So, once you're a fighter/maritime/air lift pilot you'll generally stay there ... unless you elect to go (and are selected, and pass) QFI (Qualified Flying Instructor). After a stint at one of the schools, however, you'd still expect to go back to your original type (or FEG at least). There are occasional cross-FEG transfers. Within ALG, because there's a number of different SQNs & aircraft, there can be slightly more movement around, but due to keeping corporate experience, the primary expectation would be to stay on type.
As with others, I never regretted the time spent in the RAAF. Like any job, it frustrates you at times, and there's the point at which it's right for you to move on. But for a young guy straight out of school, providing you're genuinely committed, and clearly understand what you're getting into, it's a great option. Can I suggest that you should contact Defence Recruiting and see if they can put you in contact with some junior pilots at a local base to be able to get a full description and so you can ask questions. Ask about ADFA and pilot's course too.
All the best.
Originally Posted by superfrozo
KFC chips and gravy
lc_461.........your 14 years will go way faster than you think! You'll be doing crazy stuff most days of your career and it will be an experience of a life time.
After 14 years, you'll have the option to stay on or pursue other career paths. I'm in the "other" career path now and it's about 5% of the fun & thrills I used to have.
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TB351 - Oh man, you're right: those KFC criss-cut chip thingies are FRICKIN' awesome...!!
I will have to try eating those things whilst doing 'speedballs' off the thighs of twin 21 year-old twin Swedish Olympic beach-volleyball players next...
But it still wouldn't be as good as them RAAF days eh?
(Ahhh, rose-coloured glasses!)
I will have to try eating those things whilst doing 'speedballs' off the thighs of twin 21 year-old twin Swedish Olympic beach-volleyball players next...
But it still wouldn't be as good as them RAAF days eh?
(Ahhh, rose-coloured glasses!)
Last edited by superfrozo; 26th Jul 2008 at 12:50. Reason: speeling
Well then Keg, sell us on why we should take the QF Cadetship over what these guys have mentioned!
Also to all you ex-raffies if you were back at the point where u left the RAAF would you still leave?
Also to all you ex-raffies if you were back at the point where u left the RAAF would you still leave?
Last edited by mcgrath50; 28th Jul 2008 at 10:49.
Nunc est bibendum
No way. I'd never try and 'sell' a QF cadetship over a RAAF career and I'd hope that a RAAFie wouldn't try and 'sell' a RAAF career over a QF cadetship- Rex cadetship maybe!
Both choices have pros and cons with long term ramifications that the individual (and their future family) is going to have to live with forever. It is going to be a very difficult choice taking into account each individual's particular circumstances and goals and so there is really no right and wrong choice when viewed from the outside.
Best of luck to anyone faced with that kind of choice. It's an enviable position to be in.
PS: It's no good asking ex-RAAFies whether they'd change their minds if they had their time over again. Each of them has different circumstances that will influence that response and their circumstances are not anyone elses. What was right for them in that circumstance may not be right for someone else in almost identical circumstances.
Both choices have pros and cons with long term ramifications that the individual (and their future family) is going to have to live with forever. It is going to be a very difficult choice taking into account each individual's particular circumstances and goals and so there is really no right and wrong choice when viewed from the outside.
Best of luck to anyone faced with that kind of choice. It's an enviable position to be in.
PS: It's no good asking ex-RAAFies whether they'd change their minds if they had their time over again. Each of them has different circumstances that will influence that response and their circumstances are not anyone elses. What was right for them in that circumstance may not be right for someone else in almost identical circumstances.
What Keg says!
Having just started in RPT after starting in GA and then to military the one thing that strikes me is that no matter how pilots get to where they are they had a fun time getting there. There might have been the odd bad posting (in the raaf) or mob they worked for that ripped them off of went broke (in GA/RPT), but no one would change much of their journey.
I've got funny/sad stories from all aspects of my trip so far.
As long as you are keen for the military and can be a follower and a leader when required then go for it. Having said that if bloody Qantas had given me a cadetship in 91 then maybe I would have different advice!
Having just started in RPT after starting in GA and then to military the one thing that strikes me is that no matter how pilots get to where they are they had a fun time getting there. There might have been the odd bad posting (in the raaf) or mob they worked for that ripped them off of went broke (in GA/RPT), but no one would change much of their journey.
I've got funny/sad stories from all aspects of my trip so far.
As long as you are keen for the military and can be a follower and a leader when required then go for it. Having said that if bloody Qantas had given me a cadetship in 91 then maybe I would have different advice!
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Thanks guys for your thoughts and views. Schwerpunkt I particulary found your post quite interesting - In particular that you wouldnt move from ALG to fighters or vice versa. It certainly is food for thought, and I am pretty sure that the RAAF would be a good life for me! Thanks very much for all the contributions, Keep them coming!
lc_461
lc_461
That is the hardest thing when making the choice. Everyone is happy with the way they went and no one wants to sell their way over another's (at least the decent blokes anyway!).
I am at the point in the decision process where I have spoken to lots of people and know the pros and cons of each but I am no closer to making a choice because the pros of one are the cons of another.
Eg; A Pro of the RAAF is the amazing/different flying QF's con is it's standard point to point flying.
A pro of QF is the stability in life and relative freedom and choice in career, a con of the RAAF is that in terms of career they own you much more.
A pro of the RAAF is that they offer great extra activities, such as adventure training sports etc. QF does not
BUT QF would give you more time to do things outside of work compared to the RAAF...
They seem to be opposites and cancel each other out
I am at the point in the decision process where I have spoken to lots of people and know the pros and cons of each but I am no closer to making a choice because the pros of one are the cons of another.
Eg; A Pro of the RAAF is the amazing/different flying QF's con is it's standard point to point flying.
A pro of QF is the stability in life and relative freedom and choice in career, a con of the RAAF is that in terms of career they own you much more.
A pro of the RAAF is that they offer great extra activities, such as adventure training sports etc. QF does not
BUT QF would give you more time to do things outside of work compared to the RAAF...
They seem to be opposites and cancel each other out
Nunc est bibendum
If you're only 16 then you have a few years before you even have to make a decision....and that assumes you make the cut for one or both of them.
Keep in mind that if you get into the RAAF (direct entry, not ADFA) you can leave any time prior to graduation from 2FTS and not owe a return of service. I do know of a direct entry pilot who left 2FTS about half way through his course to take up employment with Qantas.
If you intend to ultimately fly for an airline then keep in mind that seniority rules your life and therefore the earlier you get in the better off you'll be in the medium to long term.
Keep in mind that if you get into the RAAF (direct entry, not ADFA) you can leave any time prior to graduation from 2FTS and not owe a return of service. I do know of a direct entry pilot who left 2FTS about half way through his course to take up employment with Qantas.
If you intend to ultimately fly for an airline then keep in mind that seniority rules your life and therefore the earlier you get in the better off you'll be in the medium to long term.
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Thanks Keg - I read that on their website, and with ADFA as well you can leave up to your 2nd year graduation day. And I think that I will just apply for a couple of things - QF Cadetship, RAAF, Airline Academy etc. Flying is my passion - I'll get their somehow!
And as you said I imagine ADFA and RAAF direct entry would be VERY competitive to get into. As would everything else I guess.
lc_461.
And as you said I imagine ADFA and RAAF direct entry would be VERY competitive to get into. As would everything else I guess.
lc_461.
still got a bit of reducing to do make it equal to the RAAF!!!!
ie
comparing a 10 year Flying FLTLT with appx 105-110
in Qantas you would be making more money as a 2nd officer in two years or so.(a lot more!!!!)
In VB you would be equal after about 1 year as a FO.
Rough figures indeed but just add two more years to either job and RPT wins even more. Become a captain and get more than 99.9% of people in defence.
But I didn't do my defence time for the money, I did it because I loved it! (well most of it).
Note-I did say rough figures, you could include free medical....but then you have to add allowances for the RPT and I need a beer more than going on!!!
PPS - And now with the economic downturn the military doesn't have to worry about those pesky pilots asking for more money anymore.
ie
comparing a 10 year Flying FLTLT with appx 105-110
in Qantas you would be making more money as a 2nd officer in two years or so.(a lot more!!!!)
In VB you would be equal after about 1 year as a FO.
Rough figures indeed but just add two more years to either job and RPT wins even more. Become a captain and get more than 99.9% of people in defence.
But I didn't do my defence time for the money, I did it because I loved it! (well most of it).
Note-I did say rough figures, you could include free medical....but then you have to add allowances for the RPT and I need a beer more than going on!!!
PPS - And now with the economic downturn the military doesn't have to worry about those pesky pilots asking for more money anymore.