How much did you earn this fin year?
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Why do people think the Government can spend their own money better than they can? Tax me less and let me choose where i spend it.
And there's a simple solution to the welfare system, No job - No vote (That'll wipe out about 60% of the left-wing voters
). You get to participate in the democracy when you contribute to it.
And there's a simple solution to the welfare system, No job - No vote (That'll wipe out about 60% of the left-wing voters
). You get to participate in the democracy when you contribute to it.
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Why do people think the Government can spend their own money better than they can? Tax me less and let me choose where i spend it.
Some European economies take a more paternalistic approach to taxation but a brief look at the living standards in these countries might suggest that this is a good thing. If you're not concerned about people getting left behind you should make that clear instead of hiding behind the guise of 'choice'
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S/O HKG based,
HKD$870,000, including housing allowance, (which you can buy your own place with), but excluding other allowances. Tax is $44,000HKD.
On todays un-naturally high exchange rate (7.5:1) that's AUD$116,000, with tax of AUD$5,800.
BUT, a more normal/realistic 6:1 exchange rate it is AUD$145,000, with tax AUD$7,300
After 2 years of service, still as an S/O, package is $1,300,000HKD, with tax of around HKD$54,000. I'll let you do the maths to AUD.(The jump is because housing allowance doubles to around HKD$750,000/year.)
and around 18-22 days off at home (in HK) per month
and all I do is eat sandwiches...
HKD$870,000, including housing allowance, (which you can buy your own place with), but excluding other allowances. Tax is $44,000HKD.
On todays un-naturally high exchange rate (7.5:1) that's AUD$116,000, with tax of AUD$5,800.
BUT, a more normal/realistic 6:1 exchange rate it is AUD$145,000, with tax AUD$7,300
After 2 years of service, still as an S/O, package is $1,300,000HKD, with tax of around HKD$54,000. I'll let you do the maths to AUD.(The jump is because housing allowance doubles to around HKD$750,000/year.)
and around 18-22 days off at home (in HK) per month
and all I do is eat sandwiches...
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Binos, I haven't bludged on either the Australian tax payer nor the British taxpayer. My intention is to be self funded. To do that, I need a good income now.
Binos
As a retired ATC, we can reasonably assume your training was government funded can we not ?
Did you ?
1. Get paid while training
2. Get a good salary afterwards
3. Have a good superannuation scheme
4. Retire at 50 on a full pension
5. Enjoy job security
6. Have good conditions of service, relocation expenses paid, stress leave etc
If so you are a product of the system and defend what has worked for you. You got a lot from it and don't complain about contributing to it.
I and most other pilots:
1. Paid for our own training
2. Earnt nothing whilst learning
3. Were lucky to get a below award job afterwards
4. Got little if any super from dodgy employers
5. Had little if any job security
6. Had poor conditions of service, paid for our own moves, often no holiday pay.
Some of us having worked hard and sacrificed to get a decent job, resent having the "system" which did very little for us in the past, look at us now and say "You've got a good income, give us 35% of it to give to welfare dependents."
Different points of view depending on where you're coming from.
As a retired ATC, we can reasonably assume your training was government funded can we not ?
Did you ?
1. Get paid while training
2. Get a good salary afterwards
3. Have a good superannuation scheme
4. Retire at 50 on a full pension
5. Enjoy job security
6. Have good conditions of service, relocation expenses paid, stress leave etc
If so you are a product of the system and defend what has worked for you. You got a lot from it and don't complain about contributing to it.
I and most other pilots:
1. Paid for our own training
2. Earnt nothing whilst learning
3. Were lucky to get a below award job afterwards
4. Got little if any super from dodgy employers
5. Had little if any job security
6. Had poor conditions of service, paid for our own moves, often no holiday pay.
Some of us having worked hard and sacrificed to get a decent job, resent having the "system" which did very little for us in the past, look at us now and say "You've got a good income, give us 35% of it to give to welfare dependents."
Different points of view depending on where you're coming from.
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If you're not concerned about people getting left behind you should make that clear instead of hiding behind the guise of 'choice'
I just resent paying for a heath system I can't use, as no public system doctor has the time to deal with anything less severe than missing limbs or organs.
I resent paying for a education system that encourages mediorcaty, by discouraging competitiveness and success, and tells all the drop-outs and idiots that they're as good as the A+ students (of which there aren't any anymore as it makes the loosers feel like.....well.....loosers. God forbid!)
I resent my tax dollars being used to "pay" long term unemployed louts to do nothing, while giving them the right to vote for the government that will give them the most for nothing.
I can spend that money better myself.
Taxation is a necessary evil. But right now I'm tax free and loving it
(it'll all be different when I'm king
)
Just Binos
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Owen, I think you mean hypocrite but I would hate to be accused of being a spelling nazi along with my other major shame of being paid with government funds, so I'll let it go.
You are not the first person on these pages to accuse me of being personally responsible for all the problems that the baby boomers have visited upon succeeding generations including your own. That's ok, if you feel a desperate need to blame your own problems on a whole generation go for it.
I'm certainly not going to justify my financial position to an antagonist, but I would suggest rahter strongly that MetroMan is not contributing and has not contributed to said financial position in any way, and he has made it perfectly clear that he will take full advantage of the Australian system when he retires.
What about you, Owen? You seem rather angry that a previous generation is reaping the benefits of compulsory superannuation. I can understand that. But you know what? The problem you see as being passed on to you as a poisoned chalice, and which you bitterly resent, is part of our legacy too in that our children are inheriting the system of increased property prices, cost of living etc. Do you think we have wiped our hands clean of this problem? Do you not believe that parents are contributing towards that cost of living? Perhaps yours aren't?
I'll leave you to wallow in your image of what you seem to think of as my luxuriously decadent superannuation income. You have no clue about my circumstances and I for one am certainly not going to enlighten you. Continue with your bitterness if you must, but it will affect me not at all.
He is part of the most self centred, free loading, destructive generation that has lived yet will jump on the high horse to criticise the people who keep him in the lifestyle he thinks he deserves
I'm certainly not going to justify my financial position to an antagonist, but I would suggest rahter strongly that MetroMan is not contributing and has not contributed to said financial position in any way, and he has made it perfectly clear that he will take full advantage of the Australian system when he retires.
What about you, Owen? You seem rather angry that a previous generation is reaping the benefits of compulsory superannuation. I can understand that. But you know what? The problem you see as being passed on to you as a poisoned chalice, and which you bitterly resent, is part of our legacy too in that our children are inheriting the system of increased property prices, cost of living etc. Do you think we have wiped our hands clean of this problem? Do you not believe that parents are contributing towards that cost of living? Perhaps yours aren't?
I'll leave you to wallow in your image of what you seem to think of as my luxuriously decadent superannuation income. You have no clue about my circumstances and I for one am certainly not going to enlighten you. Continue with your bitterness if you must, but it will affect me not at all.
Binos
Had the Australian government:
1. Paid for all my training.
2. Paid me while training.
3. Given me a well paid job.
4. Given me job security, no layoffs.
5. Paid my expenses each time I had to move for work.
6. Provided me with generous superannuation and leave benefits.
7. Let me retire early on a full pension.
Then I would have no problem paying the tax rates to support the system which helped me.
However I:
1. Paid virtually all my training out of my own pocket. At todays prices $100 000.
2. Got $0 training wage.
3. Got very low pay in some of my jobs. Bar staff/check out chick earnt more.
4. Did casual work or drove cabs when unable to find a flying job.
5. Paid for every move I had to make.
6. Won't be able to retire early, thankfully I can now fly to 65.
7. Will have to provide for my own retirement funds, no generous government schemes.
Now that I'm finally on a good income, I want to enjoy the fruits of my labour. In Australia the government sees high income earners as a cash cow to be milked with little to be provided in return. With what I save by not having to pay Aussie tax rates I enjoy a higher standard of living and save more money.
If and when I return I will need to be self funded as I won't qualify for a pension. Prehaps I will get a seniors card for rail trips. At least I won't be costing the taxpayer $3000/week like Peter Hollingworth. Not a bad reward for 18 months as GG. System looks after it's own and and hands us the bill.
Had the Australian government:
1. Paid for all my training.
2. Paid me while training.
3. Given me a well paid job.
4. Given me job security, no layoffs.
5. Paid my expenses each time I had to move for work.
6. Provided me with generous superannuation and leave benefits.
7. Let me retire early on a full pension.
Then I would have no problem paying the tax rates to support the system which helped me.
However I:
1. Paid virtually all my training out of my own pocket. At todays prices $100 000.
2. Got $0 training wage.
3. Got very low pay in some of my jobs. Bar staff/check out chick earnt more.
4. Did casual work or drove cabs when unable to find a flying job.
5. Paid for every move I had to make.
6. Won't be able to retire early, thankfully I can now fly to 65.
7. Will have to provide for my own retirement funds, no generous government schemes.
Now that I'm finally on a good income, I want to enjoy the fruits of my labour. In Australia the government sees high income earners as a cash cow to be milked with little to be provided in return. With what I save by not having to pay Aussie tax rates I enjoy a higher standard of living and save more money.
If and when I return I will need to be self funded as I won't qualify for a pension. Prehaps I will get a seniors card for rail trips. At least I won't be costing the taxpayer $3000/week like Peter Hollingworth. Not a bad reward for 18 months as GG. System looks after it's own and and hands us the bill.
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Metro Man
I'll bite.
Nothing stops you APPLYING and being assessed for suitability to be an Air Traffic Controller. Assuming that you meet the standards, pass the college phases AND eventually meet the requirements to obtain a licence...however you may have to work 22+ days a month, actually working (using your skills NOT monitoring a system like Pavlov's dog) which can be quite a work load.
Imagine hours of 'moving tin' where one bad decision and its tea and bikkies with management as opposed to hours of watching the FMS and responding to radio prompts (??). There are days where a combination of poor airmanship, bad weather, some equipment failure (eg an ILS, GP fail) and staff shortages and one wonders how one got home without having a bingle some days.
I appreciate the UAE fellas and there big $$ and hedonistic lifestyle...I may go myself. But Singapore???? Been there many many times. Plastic society and nothing going for it IMHO.
Bottom line...Binos has earned his $$ and more.
Toodle pip
Had the Australian government:
1. Paid for all my training.
2. Paid me while training.
3. Given me a well paid job.
4. Given me job security, no layoffs.
5. Paid my expenses each time I had to move for work.
6. Provided me with generous superannuation and leave benefits.
7. Let me retire early on a full pension.
Then I would have no problem paying the tax rates to support the system which helped me.
1. Paid for all my training.
2. Paid me while training.
3. Given me a well paid job.
4. Given me job security, no layoffs.
5. Paid my expenses each time I had to move for work.
6. Provided me with generous superannuation and leave benefits.
7. Let me retire early on a full pension.
Then I would have no problem paying the tax rates to support the system which helped me.
Imagine hours of 'moving tin' where one bad decision and its tea and bikkies with management as opposed to hours of watching the FMS and responding to radio prompts (??). There are days where a combination of poor airmanship, bad weather, some equipment failure (eg an ILS, GP fail) and staff shortages and one wonders how one got home without having a bingle some days.
I appreciate the UAE fellas and there big $$ and hedonistic lifestyle...I may go myself. But Singapore???? Been there many many times. Plastic society and nothing going for it IMHO.
Bottom line...Binos has earned his $$ and more.
Toodle pip
Last edited by Track Coastal; 20th Jul 2008 at 03:15.
Track Costal
I have to meet some rather high standards myself, demonstrating this every six months in the simulator. My licence and job is on the line each time, and again when I do my medical.
My working hours are limited by law, sometimes this means few days are worked if flying long sectors. Obviously if I only do four hours flying in a day I will have to work more days before I reach the limit.
Pilots do get called in for tea and biscuits as well. Captain responsible if the f/o messes up.
Yes we do have many hours of systems monitoring in airline flying. Many hours of hard work doing instruction or sight seeing flights as well. I doubt I could deal with approach control during peak hours in Sydney, surely there are quieter ATC jobs as well ? Flight watch, small airport, training etc
By all means try the UAE, but read the posts on Emirates in the Middle East forum first. Many different accents from Hong Kong ATC if you fancy a job, but read ther posts from Cathay pilots on the Fragrant Harbour forum first. Singapore doesn't use expats in ATC.
Binos did well out of the system and favours it. A small business operator dealing with high taxes, ever increasing regulations, long hours etc with little back from the government in return would have a different opinion.
As I said earlier, different points of view depending on where you are coming from.
I have to meet some rather high standards myself, demonstrating this every six months in the simulator. My licence and job is on the line each time, and again when I do my medical.
My working hours are limited by law, sometimes this means few days are worked if flying long sectors. Obviously if I only do four hours flying in a day I will have to work more days before I reach the limit.
Pilots do get called in for tea and biscuits as well. Captain responsible if the f/o messes up.
Yes we do have many hours of systems monitoring in airline flying. Many hours of hard work doing instruction or sight seeing flights as well. I doubt I could deal with approach control during peak hours in Sydney, surely there are quieter ATC jobs as well ? Flight watch, small airport, training etc
By all means try the UAE, but read the posts on Emirates in the Middle East forum first. Many different accents from Hong Kong ATC if you fancy a job, but read ther posts from Cathay pilots on the Fragrant Harbour forum first. Singapore doesn't use expats in ATC.
Binos did well out of the system and favours it. A small business operator dealing with high taxes, ever increasing regulations, long hours etc with little back from the government in return would have a different opinion.
As I said earlier, different points of view depending on where you are coming from.
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What happened to the good old days--do what ya want where you want.
OK ,im one of them ,given up my friends and lifestyle to get a $
Same job in the big smoke around $60 ,now in the boondocks getting $125.
Left everyone in debt of $40 in those days on their houses.
Went back years later with a heap of cash--they still owed $40g,but there houses where worth more than i had saved.
Knew a Singapore based oil person once who had a nice house in Sydney rented out.He would redo his house up every year as to pay no tax here in Aussie ,strange but expats have a "thing" about tax.
I pay $16 a year tax on $125-no ,im not diddling things,just put nearly half my wage in super which still leaves me $50g spending money.
Amazing how Dalkieth )WA multi-million dollar suburb) the average income is $80g.
Why are the baby boomers the ones to blame--just mundane ,normal paid jobs in those days.Agriculture was aussies backbone-----how times have changed.
Unless rich had a normal old Holden or little 4 cylinder bomb,
no such things as credit cards.
had to have 50%+deposit for a house,
Now its borrow borrow borrow,a totally different world-a costlier one.
then---pubs shut at 6
holidays were a cravan trip to a beach somewhere
no tv
no fancy toys for kids.
Now--all night entertainment
overseas holidays or resorts in Aust,
Enormous tv,s
nintendos etc ,designer shoes and clothes for kids
No wonder the $ doesnt go as far
More people struggling hence more welfare etc
More infrastrucure---aust a big country for so few people.
Maybe we could all move to Tassie,make it overcrowded and taxes would drop.
I dont like paying tax but i have my way of reducing it.
And political ,which ever party is in control,giveth with one hand and taketh with the other-you need X amount to run the country,so where stuck with it.
Life goes on,work and pay,an if your an ex-pat and plan on coming back and dont own a house in Aussie you had better start saving those tax free dollars.
OK ,im one of them ,given up my friends and lifestyle to get a $
Same job in the big smoke around $60 ,now in the boondocks getting $125.
Left everyone in debt of $40 in those days on their houses.
Went back years later with a heap of cash--they still owed $40g,but there houses where worth more than i had saved.
Knew a Singapore based oil person once who had a nice house in Sydney rented out.He would redo his house up every year as to pay no tax here in Aussie ,strange but expats have a "thing" about tax.
I pay $16 a year tax on $125-no ,im not diddling things,just put nearly half my wage in super which still leaves me $50g spending money.
Amazing how Dalkieth )WA multi-million dollar suburb) the average income is $80g.
Why are the baby boomers the ones to blame--just mundane ,normal paid jobs in those days.Agriculture was aussies backbone-----how times have changed.
Unless rich had a normal old Holden or little 4 cylinder bomb,
no such things as credit cards.
had to have 50%+deposit for a house,
Now its borrow borrow borrow,a totally different world-a costlier one.
then---pubs shut at 6
holidays were a cravan trip to a beach somewhere
no tv
no fancy toys for kids.
Now--all night entertainment
overseas holidays or resorts in Aust,
Enormous tv,s
nintendos etc ,designer shoes and clothes for kids
No wonder the $ doesnt go as far
More people struggling hence more welfare etc
More infrastrucure---aust a big country for so few people.
Maybe we could all move to Tassie,make it overcrowded and taxes would drop.
I dont like paying tax but i have my way of reducing it.
And political ,which ever party is in control,giveth with one hand and taketh with the other-you need X amount to run the country,so where stuck with it.
Life goes on,work and pay,an if your an ex-pat and plan on coming back and dont own a house in Aussie you had better start saving those tax free dollars.
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Metroman,
The old defined benefit type super schemes were schemes that rewarded loyalty and long service. I reckon we are talking 35+ years of service to get say 70% of your FAS in the ATC biz. I am not in such a scheme and therefore haven't the underlying loyalty. The controllers that joined up in the 60s and 70s deserve every cent they get IMHO and they will never be a burden on our welfare system. A good deal if you ask me.
My average tax rate is 30c/$ spread over the 4 thresholds, of that 30c, I have no problem with the govt fulfilling its obligations to our Controllers, Firefighters, Nurses, Policeman, EMS helicopter pilots etc etc - just rewards for long service to OUR communities and generally underpaid for what they did when they worked.
I, like most, do have a problem with my 30c being squandered on poor Defence aquisition decisions, pork-barrelling (marginal electorates getting 'favours'), political junkets, MPs retirement schemes. But the only thing I can really do about that in this wonderful land, if I choose to live here, is vote carefully after due consideration (I'm a swinging voter BUT I've grown to hate the Nationals
in last 10 years).
On the UAE front, by my calculations and circumstances I will pick up a 60+% increase in folding money in Dubai as an ATC. Watch this space. Our EBA is up for negotiation and come 2009 there could be quite a few ATCs at Emirates departure lounges with one way tickets.
If I was a tad curt in my previous post, apologies, I was under the false impression that you thought our retired ATCs were on some of gravy train after a few short years of reading the paper at work (and was fiesty after some very nice 03 Shiraz).
The old defined benefit type super schemes were schemes that rewarded loyalty and long service. I reckon we are talking 35+ years of service to get say 70% of your FAS in the ATC biz. I am not in such a scheme and therefore haven't the underlying loyalty. The controllers that joined up in the 60s and 70s deserve every cent they get IMHO and they will never be a burden on our welfare system. A good deal if you ask me.
My average tax rate is 30c/$ spread over the 4 thresholds, of that 30c, I have no problem with the govt fulfilling its obligations to our Controllers, Firefighters, Nurses, Policeman, EMS helicopter pilots etc etc - just rewards for long service to OUR communities and generally underpaid for what they did when they worked.
I, like most, do have a problem with my 30c being squandered on poor Defence aquisition decisions, pork-barrelling (marginal electorates getting 'favours'), political junkets, MPs retirement schemes. But the only thing I can really do about that in this wonderful land, if I choose to live here, is vote carefully after due consideration (I'm a swinging voter BUT I've grown to hate the Nationals
in last 10 years).On the UAE front, by my calculations and circumstances I will pick up a 60+% increase in folding money in Dubai as an ATC. Watch this space. Our EBA is up for negotiation and come 2009 there could be quite a few ATCs at Emirates departure lounges with one way tickets.
If I was a tad curt in my previous post, apologies, I was under the false impression that you thought our retired ATCs were on some of gravy train after a few short years of reading the paper at work (and was fiesty after some very nice 03 Shiraz).
Last edited by Track Coastal; 20th Jul 2008 at 03:23.
I will pick up a 60+% increase in folding money in Dubai
Dr
PS: But then again I do already live in paradise!
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PS: But then again I do already live in paradise!
I have no problem paying a fair tax rate of 10 - 15% to support the running of the country and provide a BASIC welfare system for those who REALLY need it.
I do object to paying 35% to support government ineffeciency and a feather bed welfare system rewarding indolence and apathy.
You can choose to live in a nice place such as Australia paying very high taxes for doing so, or live tax free in Kuwait or Qatar counting the days until you can afford to leave. You can also find something in between.
With the current shortage of controllers the new EBA better be good or there will be even more TIBA. Ever considered that if the welfare burden wasn't so high, Air Services would have more money available for staff salaries, tax rates would be lower so you could keep more of your hard earned. It would be worthwhile to stay home rather than suffer the sand pit. Highly suitable people would be attracted to a lucrative career in ATC - no staff shortages.
Everyone benefits except those who don't want to work. These people should be forced to take a low pay job and given some government assistance to make ends meet. The tax payer gives $150/week wage top up instead of $600/week to do nothing. Employers wouldn't be complaining of staff shortages. Work for the dole taken further.
I do object to paying 35% to support government ineffeciency and a feather bed welfare system rewarding indolence and apathy.
You can choose to live in a nice place such as Australia paying very high taxes for doing so, or live tax free in Kuwait or Qatar counting the days until you can afford to leave. You can also find something in between.
With the current shortage of controllers the new EBA better be good or there will be even more TIBA. Ever considered that if the welfare burden wasn't so high, Air Services would have more money available for staff salaries, tax rates would be lower so you could keep more of your hard earned. It would be worthwhile to stay home rather than suffer the sand pit. Highly suitable people would be attracted to a lucrative career in ATC - no staff shortages.
Everyone benefits except those who don't want to work. These people should be forced to take a low pay job and given some government assistance to make ends meet. The tax payer gives $150/week wage top up instead of $600/week to do nothing. Employers wouldn't be complaining of staff shortages. Work for the dole taken further.
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This thread has spiralled out of control. How about people posting as per the title and opening comment,
How much did you earn and what tax did you pay.
Keep the school yard comments to the Qantas threads
How much did you earn and what tax did you pay.
Keep the school yard comments to the Qantas threads
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Superlame, excellent post, I second that!!
As for me, income this FY: $0/zip/zilch/nada/null/nothing
Expenses for CPLs/MECIR/NVFR training and hour building: $45,000 and counting
Fortunately, savings from my first career mean I can watch my ever diminishing account balance without much panic, although the inevitable point-of-return-to-work is rapidly approaching
I'd love to learn how others are doing in GA and instructing. I'm thinking instructor rating after I finally get the CPL tickets later this year (oh those dreaded theory exams), and then move up to the East Coast a I'm reaaaally getting sick of shoddy southern winter weather, although it's great for the CIR..
As for me, income this FY: $0/zip/zilch/nada/null/nothing
Expenses for CPLs/MECIR/NVFR training and hour building: $45,000 and counting
Fortunately, savings from my first career mean I can watch my ever diminishing account balance without much panic, although the inevitable point-of-return-to-work is rapidly approaching
I'd love to learn how others are doing in GA and instructing. I'm thinking instructor rating after I finally get the CPL tickets later this year (oh those dreaded theory exams), and then move up to the East Coast a I'm reaaaally getting sick of shoddy southern winter weather, although it's great for the CIR..
