Outback Airlines.

[one dollar short]

Gday guys,

http://www.outbackairlines.com.au/13...s-Welcome.html

can anyone tell me about this operator ? are they currently operating ?

what equipment are they currently using, as i understand it the vulcanair is not CASA approved.

are they using there own AOC or a borrowed one ?

Minimums ?

Do you think that they will be able to stay afloat on the planned routes, which are traditionally very thin, with such a large initial capital investment ?

genuinely interested, i know tennant's been screaming for a service since AAS fell over.

Cheers.

[Torres]

ODS.

"Italian general aviation company Vulcanair is gearing up to deliver the first A-Viator twin-engine turboprop to an unnamed customer early in the second quarter (of 2008). The Casoria, Naples-based airframer plans to deliver three aircraft this year - the remaining two A-Viators will be handed over to Vulcanairīs Australian distributor which has sold the aircraft to mining companies for personnel transport - and 10 aircraft a year thereafter."

So obviously they are not operating or at least not yet operating the A-Viator.

"Over the next two years, Outback Airlines intends to commence scheduled airline services to 30 destinations in NT, SA, WA and Qld, using brand new 11-seat Vulcanair (nee Partenavia) AP68TP-600 A-Viator twin-engine turbo-prop aircraft."

A tad ambitious I would have thought, particularly with an untested aircraft type.........???

Whilst I wish them every success in their new venture, I make two observations:

• The Alison 250 engine (or whatever it is now called) was a success in helicopter installations. None of it's fixed wing installations - BN2T and N22/N24 for example - ever achieved any remarkable success, and certainly not on RPT services.
  
• I am yet to see any twin turbine aircraft achieve success on RPT services with less than 18 punter's chairs down the back paying the operating costs. More so with today's RPT air fare structures.

Just my two cents worth......

[geeup]

I would say they wont even get started in my honest opinion. Not even a CP yet...

Employment
In the near future, Outback Airlines will be seeking to fill positions in the following areas:

Chief Pilot and Line Pilots

Airline Sales Executive

Airline Reservations

And RPT on an uncertified aircraft... Over sized PN68 & considering there not 1 in oz.. Proving flights etc not goen to happen in my opinion

Only way this would ever happen if it was fund by an Aboriginal Government department from NT

[geeup]

Here is your mins

Chief Pilot
The Flight Operations Department is based at Alice Springs Airport and headed by the Chief Pilot.
The Chief Pilot is responsible for the Airline Operators Certificate (AOC) and the Company Operations Manual incl Check and Training manual.
The Chief Pilot must ensure that the highest safety standards are adhered to by all Outback Airlines pilots, not just in accordance with CASA's minimum requirements.
He is also the Chief Training and Checking Officer.

Line Pilots
Eventually, Outback Airlines will employ 12 pilots on line duties.
The minimum requirement is CPL plus 500 hours in command, including 250 hours on twin-engine aircraft and turbine-endorsed.
All pilots will be route-checked on all routes before being released for flying duties

This my favourite part

Flight Simulator
An AP68TP-600 Flight Simulator is being developed in Australia to enable all pilots to complete licence renewals, route checks and meet certain experience requirements in the simulator.

[chimbu warrior]

Torres is correct. Starting a new RPT operation today is just not feasible with less than 18 seats (and even with 18 seats just barely so). The few operators who do survive operating C402/PA31 size aircraft do so because a lot of their establishment costs were in 1988 dollars (and an easier regulatory environment back then too), rather than 2008 dollars.

Lots of people try and kick off with a rusty (but trusty) C402, a few dollars and lots of dreams. Usually only the (unrealised) dreams are all that remain 12 months later.

If Leigh O'Connor could not survive in today's market, then no-one can.

[Torres]

Chimbu Warrior is correct. 25 years ago 18 seat twin turbine aircraft such as the DHC6 and EMB110 were economically viable on rural and regional RPT services. Times have changed since Eddie Connellan provided the same services in that area, and even he used larger Riley Herons and DC3's on RPT services.

Current RPT fare structures and 2008 operating costs now dictate no less than average 75% load factors in 30 plus seat aircraft, with annual utilisation of 2,000 hours per annum, to have any hope of economic viability.

I can't see how a US$2 million capital cost twelve seat A-Viator can be economically viable in the air charter market, when the interest component of it's debt servicing costs alone will exceed US$15,000 per month, per aircraft, whilst competing in the same market as 30 year old Titans, Chieftains etc with fully depreciated capital costs. Even at 100 hours per month - which is probably higher than average for a charter aircraft - the first Aus$160 of every flying hour goes direct to the financiers.

I wish them luck but fear they will need much more than luck - and a bottomless bucket of cash!

[Socket]

The man in question R.P. was the "accountant" for Aboriginal Air. So you can predict the outcome.

Interesting article here:
http://www.centralianadvocate.com.au...2970_news.html

Quote:
"Currently Outback Airlines has three Vulcanair AP68TP-600 planes, which seat up to nine passengers, and at a cost $2.5 million Mr Pollock believes they are more efficient than other brands."

How can he have three?

Tell him he's dreaming.

[Van Gough]

Mind you if the government subsidises a large portion of it and they get alot of good paying mining charter it may work out after all

[bushy]

AAS???

Looks like it is AAS attempting to go again.

[wishiwasupthere]

Outback Airlines jobs?

CareerOne: AIR CHARTER PILOTS - Centralian Advocate - Alice Springs, NT Australia 0870

Does anyone have any more info on this mob? I can't seem to find an AOC on the CASA website, and there website is quite sparse when it comes to useful info.

[The Green Goblin]

I thought they were part of Directair and had a clapped out old PA31 in Alice for a while there.

They have a metro and a conqy floating around so I suppose it won't be to hard to add another turbine type to the AOC.

Good luck, you'll need it

[bizzybody]

I would not be having a movie on the front page of my site while flying that close to the rocks

[1a sound asleep]

http://www.sa-transport.co.za/aircra...ll_02_dc06.JPG

Its a big step up from a PA 31. Fact is the likes of Caravans are not popular with customers that prefer more than one engine. Economics of the AP68TP600 indicate that it is only marginally more expensive to operate that a Caravan.

If their market has significant charter ops it might be a successful plane, although I do recall somebody waiting months for parts for a P68 a few years ago. (ie. A holden is a better bet in the outback than an Alfa Romeo)

The only I can see this working is with very high utilisations ie. 3000 hours PA minimum

[ksa5223]

saw this logo on the back of a C210, now I know what it is.

[senshi]

I think Green G is right.. operated under Direct Air's AoC with EJ as the Chief Pilot. Just tried to jump on the website, but errr having issues.

As for low capacity turbine RPT operator's.. do any of the company's in FNQ operate RPT in the van? I think Aero Tropics used to. And in the NT, do Hardy's operate c441's under 'Fly Tiwi' to the islands?

S

[The Green Goblin]

I think Green G is right.. operated under Direct Air's AoC with EJ as the Chief Pilot.

As far as I'm aware it is Directair and was referred to as the Alice Springs base.

Been a while since I knew anyone in the company but I think it was VH-TOT that was based down there until it was discovered to be full of corrosion sometime last year and grounded.

[Socket]

Green Goblin,

TOT hasnt been in Alice for a LOOOOOOOONG time, it was out of service in Melbourne for a spar mod, not corrosion, and has been back in the air for months.

At least TRY to get the facts right.

[The Green Goblin]

Thats funny socket, cause last year it was grounded with corrosion in the tail at Darwhine base, it also was a looooooong time ago I saw it in the Alice

[baron_beeza]

Now that is really funny....
I did a little work on that aircraft at Darwin towards the end of last year and I certainly did not certify any corrosion repair in the tail.
I can recall it was on the ground awaiting spares for a while.

I too often wonder just how many facts are floated around on this forum.
Just as well it is titled 'rumour network'.......

[el_capitano]

Sure hope the outfit i.e Outback Airlines is more professional than the person I spoke on the phone with the other day. The web page looks average and from the sounds of it so do the people. Could be wrong and shouldn't judge by a few phone calls, but if people called my business and go the sort of response that I did I dont think I would be getting much business.

Companies wonder why they go out of business. Its normally due to poor business acumen or the lack of to start with.