RAAF v Airline
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RAAF v Airline
I am currently completing high school and contemplating my options. I am almost 100% set on joining the RAAF and have started the process to join but I have a friend, ex-RAAF current QF Captain, who is quitely counselling me away from the military.
He says that the RAAF isn't as glossy as everyone makes out, and that if he could do it all again he would join the airlines straight away because he would have had command earlier. He also says by the time I leave the RAAF the airlines could be going through a cycle of 'not recruiting' and I should strike while the iron is hot.
I love the idea of joining the RAAF but what he says does concern me as I respect his opinion. What are your thoughts?
He says that the RAAF isn't as glossy as everyone makes out, and that if he could do it all again he would join the airlines straight away because he would have had command earlier. He also says by the time I leave the RAAF the airlines could be going through a cycle of 'not recruiting' and I should strike while the iron is hot.
I love the idea of joining the RAAF but what he says does concern me as I respect his opinion. What are your thoughts?
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Go with your gut feeling mate. You can get a lot of experience with the RAAF, you can also do a lot of different flying, low level stuff, combat stuff etc.
Plus the Defence Force has low interest home loans and a number od other incentives for its personnel.
I'd so go with the RAAF mate, Qantas isn't going anywhere and you'll always get the opportunity later to go for the airlines.
Plus the Defence Force has low interest home loans and a number od other incentives for its personnel.
I'd so go with the RAAF mate, Qantas isn't going anywhere and you'll always get the opportunity later to go for the airlines.
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I agree, Airforce is a good way to go and come out with no debts and fantastic skills, experience and discipline. Airlines do indeed love Airforce training, and the ladies love an airforce uniform
Think about it before you make a decision. Remember the RAAF is part of the military and you will be a military officer first, then a pilot. You will also have an initial minimum period of service, about eleven years for the RAAF from memory. If you decide you don't like it after 2-3 years, badluck, you can't get out. If you fail pilots course for any reason (even if you are a brilliant pilot) you will be stuck in the military as an officer flying a desk for a long time.
The health care is reasonable and it is free, but you are also more likely to be broken. The ADF low intrest loans are not that competitive, the idea seems to be to get members into debt so that they are financialy dependent on the ADF and stay in for longer. It is not anywhere as glam as it seems to an outsider. A friend of mine wanted to fly fighters more than anything else in the world (as did I), he ranked second on pilots cse and was sent to 34 Sqn (CL 600). The RAAF offers some great flying experiences, but you may not get the postings necessary to experience them.
If I were you I would go for the airlines. If you don't like it you can always change your mind later on and go somewhere else (even the RAAF), you will have that choice.
You will be paid far more than in the RAAF and can choose your own health care/ Gyms/ loans. You can also live where you want to and do what you want in your time off.
I am speaking from personal experience. I served with the Army but spent most of my short career posted to RAAF units. In the end it is your decision. Think long and hard before signing on the dotted line because once you are in the RAAF, thats it, your decisions will be made for you. Good luck
The health care is reasonable and it is free, but you are also more likely to be broken. The ADF low intrest loans are not that competitive, the idea seems to be to get members into debt so that they are financialy dependent on the ADF and stay in for longer. It is not anywhere as glam as it seems to an outsider. A friend of mine wanted to fly fighters more than anything else in the world (as did I), he ranked second on pilots cse and was sent to 34 Sqn (CL 600). The RAAF offers some great flying experiences, but you may not get the postings necessary to experience them.
If I were you I would go for the airlines. If you don't like it you can always change your mind later on and go somewhere else (even the RAAF), you will have that choice.
You will be paid far more than in the RAAF and can choose your own health care/ Gyms/ loans. You can also live where you want to and do what you want in your time off.
I am speaking from personal experience. I served with the Army but spent most of my short career posted to RAAF units. In the end it is your decision. Think long and hard before signing on the dotted line because once you are in the RAAF, thats it, your decisions will be made for you. Good luck
Last edited by Trojan1981; 4th Jun 2008 at 03:31. Reason: typo
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Go for the RAAF,
you wont have to pay to be interrviewed,
you wont have to pay for your training,
and you will be paid fairly right from the start.
you wont have to pay to be interrviewed,
you wont have to pay for your training,
and you will be paid fairly right from the start.
Trojan has hit the nail on the head in this instance. If you are vaguely interested in doing the airline thing (and RAAF being a means to an end), you would be far better served staying civi and joining the airlines as soon as you get the required minimum experience for the various companies.
Don't forget QF runs the seniority system, and as a result all those crusty old (and some not so old) RAAFies that have spent 11 - 15 years in the forces that are pulling the pin and walking to QF start at the bottom of the seniority list the same as little Johnny that's only been flying bugsmashers for 3 - 4 years or so out bush.
There is definately some good/interesting flying to be had in the forces (so I'm certainly not knocking it), but you won't do particluarly much of it (some guys are kissed on the dick and get a good run, goto the right sqn at the right time etc.. most don't). Don't let me even get started on the Navy training pipeline at the moment.
Just a bit of food for thought.
Don't forget QF runs the seniority system, and as a result all those crusty old (and some not so old) RAAFies that have spent 11 - 15 years in the forces that are pulling the pin and walking to QF start at the bottom of the seniority list the same as little Johnny that's only been flying bugsmashers for 3 - 4 years or so out bush.
There is definately some good/interesting flying to be had in the forces (so I'm certainly not knocking it), but you won't do particluarly much of it (some guys are kissed on the dick and get a good run, goto the right sqn at the right time etc.. most don't). Don't let me even get started on the Navy training pipeline at the moment.
Just a bit of food for thought.
McGrath,
Don't be concerned about the long term commitment required for the RAAF, very few, if any RAAF pilots would say they have gotten bored with their job.
There are always those people who join with the intention of leaving as soon as their ROSO is up and that is ok, but in my case I don't think I will have done everything I want to by the time my I can leave.
The current direct entry ROSO for RAAF is 11.5 years and around 15 or 16 for ADFA.
You will not be stuck serving out your ROSO if you fail pilots course (unless you have completed an ADFA degree), I know of people who have discharged within a few weeks of failing.
If you are good enough, and you want fast jets, you will get them.
Don't let people's negative opinions change your mind (especially if they haven't even done it - Army doesn't count).
You seem to be motivated so give it a go - the airlines aren't going anywhere.
You'll have a hell of a lot more fun than you would fighting for a GA job.
Don't be concerned about the long term commitment required for the RAAF, very few, if any RAAF pilots would say they have gotten bored with their job.
There are always those people who join with the intention of leaving as soon as their ROSO is up and that is ok, but in my case I don't think I will have done everything I want to by the time my I can leave.
The current direct entry ROSO for RAAF is 11.5 years and around 15 or 16 for ADFA.
You will not be stuck serving out your ROSO if you fail pilots course (unless you have completed an ADFA degree), I know of people who have discharged within a few weeks of failing.
If you are good enough, and you want fast jets, you will get them.
Don't let people's negative opinions change your mind (especially if they haven't even done it - Army doesn't count).
You seem to be motivated so give it a go - the airlines aren't going anywhere.
You'll have a hell of a lot more fun than you would fighting for a GA job.
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Trojan - stop dribbling crap to this kid. In addition to what PAF has corrected you on.
I strongly disagree, you are far more likely to go RAAF then airlines.
Most guys who leave the RAAF after their 10 year ROSO take a pay cut when the go airlines. True, in the long run you get more in the airlines, but if money is your only motivation perhaps merchant banking is a better career choice.
Loans - you are in no way tied to a defence force loan or bank
Gyms - why bother choosing you own and paying for it when there is a fully furnished one on every base. You can still choose one on main street if you want.
healthcare - why pay for it when everything is paid for....but again there is nothing stopping you taking out private health insurance but only a fool would.
The half a dozen or so places i have lived in have been just great. Lazy sundays at the COT in Perth, great waves on the Newcastle coast, and now barra fishing in Townsville. I probably never would have seen any of these places had i not been in the airforce. Fair enough you move around a bit, but it's all part of the adventure.
Never in my time have a not been able to do what i want in my time off. I'm not sure what "experience" you have had but the RAAF certainly dosent control your free time.
Perhaps you mate simply wasn't good enough or had the wrong attitude, this has nothing to do with recommending the RAAF as a career.
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I joined the RAAF after a finishing a Uni degree (non aviation) and have loved just about every day of it. You meet some great people, and make life long friends, you get to fly the most high tech kit (think of all the new platforms coming online), you get paid pretty well, you dont have to pay for training.
Obvviously there are down points, moving (especially when you have a significant other), time away from home (typicaly 2-6 months depending on platform) and of course the potential to go to conflict.
But nowhere else can you get the chance to do 600kts at 250ft, drop4000lbs of HE, fly at 250ft on NVGs or fly a Mach 2 at 50000ft.
McGrath the airlines will always be there, make the most of your eagreness to join and good luck.
If you don't like it you can always change your mind later on and go somewhere else (even the RAAF), you will have that choice.
You will be paid far more than in the RAAF and can choose your own health care/ Gyms/ loans.
Loans - you are in no way tied to a defence force loan or bank
Gyms - why bother choosing you own and paying for it when there is a fully furnished one on every base. You can still choose one on main street if you want.
healthcare - why pay for it when everything is paid for....but again there is nothing stopping you taking out private health insurance but only a fool would.
You can also live where you want to and do what you want in your time off.
Never in my time have a not been able to do what i want in my time off. I'm not sure what "experience" you have had but the RAAF certainly dosent control your free time.
A friend of mine wanted to fly fighters more than anything else in the world (as did I), he ranked second on pilots cse and was sent to 34 Sqn (CL 600).
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I joined the RAAF after a finishing a Uni degree (non aviation) and have loved just about every day of it. You meet some great people, and make life long friends, you get to fly the most high tech kit (think of all the new platforms coming online), you get paid pretty well, you dont have to pay for training.
Obvviously there are down points, moving (especially when you have a significant other), time away from home (typicaly 2-6 months depending on platform) and of course the potential to go to conflict.
But nowhere else can you get the chance to do 600kts at 250ft, drop4000lbs of HE, fly at 250ft on NVGs or fly a Mach 2 at 50000ft.
McGrath the airlines will always be there, make the most of your eagreness to join and good luck.
Thread Starter
Thank you everyone for their great insights, except Mr. Buzzy, I found more help looking in the mens public urinal!
If anyone else has anything else to add to the debate, it would be great to hear!
If anyone else has anything else to add to the debate, it would be great to hear!
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Thank you everyone for their great insights, except Mr. Buzzy, I found more help looking in the mens public urinal!
You may think that the airforce is just some great adventure, but its just more than that. You really do have to be committed if you want to serve in the airforce. There are a couple of threads quite similar to this and I've read that for RAAF interviews, they pick those who are only committed to the military aspect of flying.
I, just like you have always had a passion for aviation from a very young age. I personally didn't want to join the RAAF because of the ROSO. It would be about 15 years for me (ADFA) so I ended up doing the Qantas Cadet Program which I never regretted doing - maybe just a twinge of regret for not having some experience in GA but nevertheless, I still have enjoyed everything to this point and still do. Just do what you feel is right and hope everything turns out great.
Happy flying.
flyhigh744
Thread Starter
I understand Mr. Buzzs comments but they seemed slightly err bitter i suppose.
Anyway, the QF cadetship is the other option I would take, my worry about that is it pretty much has it's own ROSO for a whole life, let's be honest who here will admit the kid inside them wants them to fly for any other airline than the flag carrier. So by joining the 'ultimate' (slight sincerity mixed with irony there) at the start of your career where would you go? Do you feel you are lacking somewhat in knowledge of being around the traps in GA and Military like other pilots you work with?
Anyway, the QF cadetship is the other option I would take, my worry about that is it pretty much has it's own ROSO for a whole life, let's be honest who here will admit the kid inside them wants them to fly for any other airline than the flag carrier. So by joining the 'ultimate' (slight sincerity mixed with irony there) at the start of your career where would you go? Do you feel you are lacking somewhat in knowledge of being around the traps in GA and Military like other pilots you work with?
capt_akun said, " airline loves RAAF pilots. and military has excellent health plans!! and other things...."
is that still accurate today? it was in the old days but ive heard recently airlines dont look upon them as highly as they used to anymore
just my opinion kinda... saying they 'love' them i think could be a tad of an over-statement, correct me if im wrong though
(i duno how to quote in forums someone tell me in priv msg lol)
is that still accurate today? it was in the old days but ive heard recently airlines dont look upon them as highly as they used to anymore
just my opinion kinda... saying they 'love' them i think could be a tad of an over-statement, correct me if im wrong though
(i duno how to quote in forums someone tell me in priv msg lol)