Realisitic First Wage
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Join Date: Jun 2001
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Realisitic First Wage
Hi all,
Wondering what to expect when considering a first wage these days in aviation. Obviously low time single day vfr is what I would be expecting to land but what should I realistically expect. 20 - 30,000 or higher?
Regards
Flyboy33
Wondering what to expect when considering a first wage these days in aviation. Obviously low time single day vfr is what I would be expecting to land but what should I realistically expect. 20 - 30,000 or higher?
Regards
Flyboy33
Join Date: May 2008
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THe SE VFR award is around $ 31 500 per yr. Go to www.afap.org.au on the side bar menu is "Public Access" and under that you will see "Safety Net Awards" then click on "pilots General Aviation Award" and it will go through all the allowances etc etc, for Multi IFR drivers and SE VFR drivers.
Whilst on the Afap site have a look at the Jobs section as there are always jobs appearing on there, usually the ones out of every friday's Australian newspaper Aviation section. Also some appear midweek.
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Whilst on the Afap site have a look at the Jobs section as there are always jobs appearing on there, usually the ones out of every friday's Australian newspaper Aviation section. Also some appear midweek.
300
Join Date: May 2008
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Are you guys joking?
The minimum wage in this country is $35,400.00 p.a.
The person who suggested to go to the AFAP website...are you sure that's a responsible suggestion?
I have heard nothing more convincing then the irrelevance of the AFAP.
The minimum wage in this country is $35,400.00 p.a.
The person who suggested to go to the AFAP website...are you sure that's a responsible suggestion?
I have heard nothing more convincing then the irrelevance of the AFAP.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: On the Rise to Conquer!
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tiptoeturkey - I believe they directed hiim there to show him the award documents, which is much easier to find then wage.net.au ...etc
flyboy_33 - You deserve the minimum amount according to the award wage. however, whether you degrade yourself below that is just another thing.
flyboy_33 - You deserve the minimum amount according to the award wage. however, whether you degrade yourself below that is just another thing.
Last edited by capt_akun; 2nd Jun 2008 at 14:31.
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Have a mate started traineeship with QFLink. Selected and starts ops theory at MMB. First day it turns out that half a dozen of the group don't have CIR's, so QFL puts them all through a MECIR in a B1900 for FREE, no ROS. As a result everyone else in the group has to wait for the others to finish before they can graduate without pay.
They must be desperate. Still not bad to have to wait a little extra for a $50k+ starting salary.
They must be desperate. Still not bad to have to wait a little extra for a $50k+ starting salary.
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Never be intimidated by money.
But be ashamed by the AFAP contribution to the Australian Aviation scene ....... oh let me see .... oh that's right since 1990 when they were castrated.
And they still call themselves a UNION. Check out the Wiki definition.
False advertising when you research their achievements over the last 18 years.
Advice to people starting in the aviation industry, don't ask the AFAP.
But be ashamed by the AFAP contribution to the Australian Aviation scene ....... oh let me see .... oh that's right since 1990 when they were castrated.
And they still call themselves a UNION. Check out the Wiki definition.
False advertising when you research their achievements over the last 18 years.
Advice to people starting in the aviation industry, don't ask the AFAP.
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It is a bit harsh to start out on a mid-low 30k salary, but there are still plenty of operators, especially in WA paying "casual" rates, and their boys and girls struggle to get 30K.
Fortunately now with the current aviation climate, you only have to do 6 months or so and you can land yourself a job paying on excess on 60K on a single. Its a wonderful thing
Fortunately now with the current aviation climate, you only have to do 6 months or so and you can land yourself a job paying on excess on 60K on a single. Its a wonderful thing
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Fortunately now with the current aviation climate, you only have to do 6 months or so and you can land yourself a job paying on excess on 60K on a single.
Remember too that not everyone pays the award. I get paid a retainer plus hours flown. So when you're teaching ab-initio students VFR flying......well you do the math. Some weeks are ok, then you have a run of
weather and you make less than the award. As far as im aware thats fairly common place as an instructor.
Sometimes its very hard to try and think of the best interest of the student. "Hmmmm initial circuits............well its only 15kt of crosswind"
Before everyone jumps down my throat about how wrong that is and that i shouldnt be instructing because i am robbing students etc etc.........I dont do the type of thing that i mentioned above. I have a conscience. I also had the same thing done to me when i was learning and it scared the
out of me so i know how much of a waste it is.Thing is though when you need to do another hour of flying to make your rent for the week, initial CCTS in 15kt X wind can sometimes be very tempting.
And they wonder why some people think instructing is the lowest form of avaition
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Right well ive done my six months and i want to know where these 60K jobs are for single drivers??? Seriously though?
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Hmm
Gettin' there and anyone else who is considering anything less than the award, can I suggest that the law is on your side if you were to look at rectifying the situation. I know it's very hard to go to someone and ask them to pay you properly without fear of some sort of retribution (like gettin' fired), but again the law is on your side here. Some simple points to remember:
1/ You can't be discriminated against for reporting an operator who is operating unlawfully. In other words if your argument is legitimate they can't fire you just because it's inconvenient to them.
2/ Operating on the retainer that you describe would most probably be considered unlawful on the basis that even when the weather is inclement you are probably required to be on the premises and thus you should be paid at least the award for this time. Does this time spent on the ground allow you an opportunity to undertake other employment? I'm 90% certain the answer would be 'no' and thus a court would consider this time as working time for the employer. Any argument that the relationship between yourself and the employer is one where you might be considered a contractor would also be quickly shot down. This is because employment law goes to a lot of effort to distinguish between relationships of employer/employee versus contractor. Broadly the latter is where a party is asked to do a job without any significant direction towards how it should be done (e.g. laying a slab of concrete). The former exists where the employer is essentially a master in the relationship and directs how things should be done. SOP manuals are a good example of this direction and I can't see how aviation companies could escape from such an interpretation when it comes to employing pilots.
3/ Retrospective payment is available to people who have been underpaid in previous employment, however some hoops have to be jumped.
Finally, for the record I am not here as a basher of employers. I have owned my own company and at one stage had 40 odd people working for me. I am much more interested in developing informed and respectful partnerships where people understand the ground they stand on. I get most frustrated though when I see business people succeeding because they are taking advantage of other people's ignorance or ambition.
1/ You can't be discriminated against for reporting an operator who is operating unlawfully. In other words if your argument is legitimate they can't fire you just because it's inconvenient to them.
2/ Operating on the retainer that you describe would most probably be considered unlawful on the basis that even when the weather is inclement you are probably required to be on the premises and thus you should be paid at least the award for this time. Does this time spent on the ground allow you an opportunity to undertake other employment? I'm 90% certain the answer would be 'no' and thus a court would consider this time as working time for the employer. Any argument that the relationship between yourself and the employer is one where you might be considered a contractor would also be quickly shot down. This is because employment law goes to a lot of effort to distinguish between relationships of employer/employee versus contractor. Broadly the latter is where a party is asked to do a job without any significant direction towards how it should be done (e.g. laying a slab of concrete). The former exists where the employer is essentially a master in the relationship and directs how things should be done. SOP manuals are a good example of this direction and I can't see how aviation companies could escape from such an interpretation when it comes to employing pilots.
3/ Retrospective payment is available to people who have been underpaid in previous employment, however some hoops have to be jumped.
Finally, for the record I am not here as a basher of employers. I have owned my own company and at one stage had 40 odd people working for me. I am much more interested in developing informed and respectful partnerships where people understand the ground they stand on. I get most frustrated though when I see business people succeeding because they are taking advantage of other people's ignorance or ambition.
Thread Starter
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Thank you Very very much
I would like to thank you all very much. It gives me hope that I can actually get this dream off the ground and towards where I want to be. (RFDS).
Now to bring the misus into the computer room... To show her this page...
(dirty minds can now stop lol).
She has been concerned that I won't be able to support our small family on a decent wage in the first few years. I am only just making 40,000 a year now so it shouldn't be too much of a drop. Now to convince her that the loan to finish off is a good thing and we can be on our way.!!
And no I don't plan to be a aviation Sl)t and bring the wages down. I have been on this forum long enough to hear and respect what a lot of people have suggested over the years. Thank you all again for your responses.
Cheers and thanks again to everyone.
Flyboy_33
Now to bring the misus into the computer room... To show her this page...
(dirty minds can now stop lol).
She has been concerned that I won't be able to support our small family on a decent wage in the first few years. I am only just making 40,000 a year now so it shouldn't be too much of a drop. Now to convince her that the loan to finish off is a good thing and we can be on our way.!!
And no I don't plan to be a aviation Sl)t and bring the wages down. I have been on this forum long enough to hear and respect what a lot of people have suggested over the years. Thank you all again for your responses.
Cheers and thanks again to everyone.
Flyboy_33
The other problem with employers who think their employees are contractors, is that they do not pay tax on your behalf, or superannuation, despite being required to by law.
I was offered a job by an operator doing exactly this, last year, but elected to stay where I was rather than go to the trouble of forcing the issue. Turns out that was the right decision in the end anyway!
For anyone knowledgeable in the area, what would a person's rights be if they took a job like that, in full knowledge that they'd have to take the boss to court to get their superannuation later?
I was offered a job by an operator doing exactly this, last year, but elected to stay where I was rather than go to the trouble of forcing the issue. Turns out that was the right decision in the end anyway!
For anyone knowledgeable in the area, what would a person's rights be if they took a job like that, in full knowledge that they'd have to take the boss to court to get their superannuation later?
If you call the ATO they will extract the super from your ex-employer (or soon-to-be-ex-employer 
) and send you a cheque, no court required.
In a perfect world you could count on the AFA fuggin P backing you up too but it just doesn't happen
) and send you a cheque, no court required.In a perfect world you could count on the AFA fuggin P backing you up too
but it just doesn't happen
Join Date: May 2008
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Group Certificate
Sorry to change the direction here, but whilst we are talking about ATO and court etc. What procedure would a previous employee of a company have to follow to get a group certificate if that previous employer would not issue/send one out to me?
What it be a call to the ATO?
I realise the end of the financial year is a fair way away yet but i would like to know for future reference as i do see the circumstance mentioned above happening.
300
What it be a call to the ATO?
I realise the end of the financial year is a fair way away yet but i would like to know for future reference as i do see the circumstance mentioned above happening.
300
