ATPL Flight Planning Tricks, Short Cuts etc
Join Date: Feb 2007
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I'm about as green as pilots come but I reckon that there's a time and place to save trees and a time to kill them. Whilst you are sitting an exam for which you have shelled out $180 is no time to save trees (or whales, wombats, bilbies for that matter). Use paper and use lots of it.
Also, when you get a second sheet DO NOT let them take away the first (they didn't even try with me). They've got no reason or right to do that and you may well need it for going over an earlier question (although you should be damned certain about changing an answer as your first 'guess' is usually right).
FRQ CB
Also, when you get a second sheet DO NOT let them take away the first (they didn't even try with me). They've got no reason or right to do that and you may well need it for going over an earlier question (although you should be damned certain about changing an answer as your first 'guess' is usually right).
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Argh! Doing the exam on Wednesday, madly revising all my notes.
Can anyone give me an idea on how many and what type of questions they ask? Is it all page long flightplans, or are there a couple like "what is your TAS" or "how long to TOC" ?
Can anyone give me an idea on how many and what type of questions they ask? Is it all page long flightplans, or are there a couple like "what is your TAS" or "how long to TOC" ?
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Hey Capn,
Good luck. For starters it's important to know that just because there may be a lot of words in the question and because it may be a 5 pointer doesn't mean that it's a long drawn out question. Indeed you may get a 3 pointer that's got 4 or 5 (planned or actual) ETAs and GWs at different points enroute, the reason it's only a three pointer is that they know you don't have to do a climb or as many sectors.
Here's a breakdown that I compiled based on what I came across (I sat it twice) and what people told me to expect (corrected to equal exactly 50 points in 17 questions):
5 pointers X 3 or 4
4 pointer X 1
3 pointers X 3 or 4
2 pointers X 8 or 6
1 pointers X 2 or 0
If you assume the above and aim to do questions under the following maximum times:
5 pts < :25
4 pts < :15
3 pts < :09
2 pts < :04
1 pt < :02
you should come to < :180. Those are figures from before I made my second attempt, the only change I would make now is to aim for :20 5 markers (if one of them takes you :30 though that's probably OK) and probably allot a bit more time to the 1 pointers. What can save you (this is according to my experience and that of a mate) is getting at least one 5 or 4 marker done in 10-15 minutes, if you do that then you've just scored some extra time to devote to 2 tricky 3 pointers.
As far as preparation goes don't waste your time doing too many 2 or 3 pointers, just hammer out lots of the 5s (the 1s, 2s and 3s are mostly based on portions of a full flight plan). Arrive at the exam early enough to do a simple flight plan (not a new one, choose one that you've done a few times) just to go through the motions and stretch your brain out in that special Flight Planning way.
Good luck again,
FRQ CB
Good luck. For starters it's important to know that just because there may be a lot of words in the question and because it may be a 5 pointer doesn't mean that it's a long drawn out question. Indeed you may get a 3 pointer that's got 4 or 5 (planned or actual) ETAs and GWs at different points enroute, the reason it's only a three pointer is that they know you don't have to do a climb or as many sectors.
Here's a breakdown that I compiled based on what I came across (I sat it twice) and what people told me to expect (corrected to equal exactly 50 points in 17 questions):
5 pointers X 3 or 4
4 pointer X 1
3 pointers X 3 or 4
2 pointers X 8 or 6
1 pointers X 2 or 0
If you assume the above and aim to do questions under the following maximum times:
5 pts < :25
4 pts < :15
3 pts < :09
2 pts < :04
1 pt < :02
you should come to < :180. Those are figures from before I made my second attempt, the only change I would make now is to aim for :20 5 markers (if one of them takes you :30 though that's probably OK) and probably allot a bit more time to the 1 pointers. What can save you (this is according to my experience and that of a mate) is getting at least one 5 or 4 marker done in 10-15 minutes, if you do that then you've just scored some extra time to devote to 2 tricky 3 pointers.
As far as preparation goes don't waste your time doing too many 2 or 3 pointers, just hammer out lots of the 5s (the 1s, 2s and 3s are mostly based on portions of a full flight plan). Arrive at the exam early enough to do a simple flight plan (not a new one, choose one that you've done a few times) just to go through the motions and stretch your brain out in that special Flight Planning way.
Good luck again,
FRQ CB
Passed it today, ah it feels good to have them all out of the way!
Had the same question numbers as ryda, lots of OEI PNRs and one on calculating MZW, plus a couple ones about what time will you land. All in all not too bad, but definitely helps to have practiced lots of flight plans
Had the same question numbers as ryda, lots of OEI PNRs and one on calculating MZW, plus a couple ones about what time will you land. All in all not too bad, but definitely helps to have practiced lots of flight plans
Join Date: May 2002
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Resat the evil male offspring of a female dog yesterday and passed the flippin thing!
My thanks to ASL and the supervisor at the Alice Springs centre for this. I had originally scheduled to sit the thing on wednesday. Drove down from Tennant Creek on tuesday, sweated blood that night and turned up on wednesday morning to be told;
"Very sorry but the computer link is down and we cannot get it restored."
Heavy sigh. Back in the car and drive another 500 km back to Tennant Creek. When I got back thought about this and knowing I had to fly back to Alice Springs the next day gave ASL a ring.
"Would it be possible to reschedule the exam for thursday morning or at worst friday morning?"
"Yes, that might be possible but we need to organise it with the superviser first."
Few minutes later a call back to say all arranged. It turned out the superviser wasn't going to come in the following morning but said that she had felt sorry for me the previous day so agreed to the rescheduling.
Thanks to both ASL and the suprviser. Between you both I have had a very heavy load removed.
My thanks to ASL and the supervisor at the Alice Springs centre for this. I had originally scheduled to sit the thing on wednesday. Drove down from Tennant Creek on tuesday, sweated blood that night and turned up on wednesday morning to be told;
"Very sorry but the computer link is down and we cannot get it restored."
Heavy sigh. Back in the car and drive another 500 km back to Tennant Creek. When I got back thought about this and knowing I had to fly back to Alice Springs the next day gave ASL a ring.
"Would it be possible to reschedule the exam for thursday morning or at worst friday morning?"
"Yes, that might be possible but we need to organise it with the superviser first."
Few minutes later a call back to say all arranged. It turned out the superviser wasn't going to come in the following morning but said that she had felt sorry for me the previous day so agreed to the rescheduling.
Thanks to both ASL and the suprviser. Between you both I have had a very heavy load removed.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Well done PLovet!!! And I thought I had it tough going across Perth to Canning Vale. ASL can be flexible if you give them sufficient notice (we do pay them enough). I requested to have a slot extended for IREX a while back and after a phone call between Canberra and Kunnas it was sorted.
Do you have many more 500km drives to do exams in Alice?
FRQ CB
Do you have many more 500km drives to do exams in Alice?
FRQ CB
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Another 3 to go - Navigation, Systems & Air Law. Going back to Maroochydore for the first 2 of those, I should self-study but finding the motivation hard and I like the break by going there.
Given my background I have no option but to self-study for Air Law which I hope to get done early next year. By then I hope that I will have the last few night hours I need to actually get the licence.
Gawd I wish I had done the bleedin things back in 2000 when I had the time, opportunity and finances to do them but back then I thought no-one will employ an old bugger like me in a transport cat aircraft. Hah!
All the best to all other PPRuNers out there battling away to get these exams done.
Given my background I have no option but to self-study for Air Law which I hope to get done early next year. By then I hope that I will have the last few night hours I need to actually get the licence.
Gawd I wish I had done the bleedin things back in 2000 when I had the time, opportunity and finances to do them but back then I thought no-one will employ an old bugger like me in a transport cat aircraft. Hah!
All the best to all other PPRuNers out there battling away to get these exams done.
I know what you mean PLovett! I wish I'd done them back before I started working instead of waiting until I needed them to do it! Current CPL students take note
Join Date: Apr 2004
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It can be done.
To anyone getting this far through reading through the notes, there is light at the end of the tunnel. I passed the exam this morning over extending myself by 6%... but it was a pass.
Speaking to some friends of mine that were not so lucky when sitting theirs, make sure you have a week or so cleared just in case.... As things stad, it make take you a lot longer to relearn than to just get it over with the first time/second time/third.... just get it done once you start / basic point.
I am saying this 2 years now after all my friends originally passed their exams. But I have been unscathed so far as to fail one... this is by far the worst! Be scared.... only if that is what motivates you!
Good luck, and take not of the tips and hints in this thread, if only for the mental advantage of knowing what is ahead!
Speaking to some friends of mine that were not so lucky when sitting theirs, make sure you have a week or so cleared just in case.... As things stad, it make take you a lot longer to relearn than to just get it over with the first time/second time/third.... just get it done once you start / basic point.
I am saying this 2 years now after all my friends originally passed their exams. But I have been unscathed so far as to fail one... this is by far the worst! Be scared.... only if that is what motivates you!
Good luck, and take not of the tips and hints in this thread, if only for the mental advantage of knowing what is ahead!
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Well done Mr P.
When I tried to self-study for flight planning I just hit a brick wall and needed the pressure of the class-room situation to get back into it.
My hat's well and truely tipped to those who can self-study for these exams.
When I tried to self-study for flight planning I just hit a brick wall and needed the pressure of the class-room situation to get back into it.
My hat's well and truely tipped to those who can self-study for these exams.
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Help with simple question
Flight from A-B
BRW at A= 82,600
BW= 47,050
B is suitable, A is acceptable with 30mins holding
Flight fuel NO=14600
FF NO to A-BCP then OEI From the CP= 15200
FF NO to A-bCP then DP from the CP= 16150
Max P/L is closest to:
A)15150
B)16500
C)16100 (I put, but wrong, i calc max P/L to be 16,090, but C is closet)
D) 15650
Am i missing something?
BRW at A= 82,600
BW= 47,050
B is suitable, A is acceptable with 30mins holding
Flight fuel NO=14600
FF NO to A-BCP then OEI From the CP= 15200
FF NO to A-bCP then DP from the CP= 16150
Max P/L is closest to:
A)15150
B)16500
C)16100 (I put, but wrong, i calc max P/L to be 16,090, but C is closet)
D) 15650
Am i missing something?
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brns, that looks horribly familiar and I also got it wrong. 
I think from memory that the 1-inop fuel requirement is the largest fuel load with reserves and comes to 20,320 kg.
From there subtract fuel from BRW to check MZFW and if ok then subtract BW to get PL. The figure I got here was 15,230 kg for payload but hey, I got it wrong so don't follow me.
I think from memory that the 1-inop fuel requirement is the largest fuel load with reserves and comes to 20,320 kg.
From there subtract fuel from BRW to check MZFW and if ok then subtract BW to get PL. The figure I got here was 15,230 kg for payload but hey, I got it wrong so don't follow me.
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Just wondering if anyone can help with this. I'd like to calculate the total fuel required on board at start up for a 1 engine inop ETP/CP scenario going from, say YAAA to YBBB. YBBB is "Suitable" and no WX holding fuel is required. YAAA (the departing airport) is "Acceptable" and requires 30 minutes holding to make it "Suitable".
Question is, when working out the total fuel on board that covers the 1 engine INop ETP/CP requirement, do I need to carry the 30 minutes fuel for YAAA? Or do I assume the flight will go on to YBBB and therefore I don't require the 30 minutes holding?
Question is, when working out the total fuel on board that covers the 1 engine INop ETP/CP requirement, do I need to carry the 30 minutes fuel for YAAA? Or do I assume the flight will go on to YBBB and therefore I don't require the 30 minutes holding?
Just wondering if anyone can help with this. I'd like to calculate the total fuel required on board at start up for a 1 engine inop ETP/CP scenario going from, say YAAA to YBBB. YBBB is "Suitable" and no WX holding fuel is required. YAAA (the departing airport) is "Acceptable" and requires 30 minutes holding to make it "Suitable".
Question is, when working out the total fuel on board that covers the 1 engine INop ETP/CP requirement, do I need to carry the 30 minutes fuel for YAAA? Or do I assume the flight will go on to YBBB and therefore I don't require the 30 minutes holding?
Question is, when working out the total fuel on board that covers the 1 engine INop ETP/CP requirement, do I need to carry the 30 minutes fuel for YAAA? Or do I assume the flight will go on to YBBB and therefore I don't require the 30 minutes holding?
Got a real sense of de-ja vu on this question...
But you MUST carry the 30 minute holding fuel. What would happen if you are about 5 minutes on the YAAA side of the critical point, and had an engine failure. Would you have enough fuel to press on to YBBB and land, reserves intact?
No, you wouldnt, because you have only planned OEI from your critical point. So you have to turn around and go back to YAAA, which has a 30 minute holding requirement.
Don't try to get cheeky and use the 30 minute holding fuel for YAAA as "extra" fuel to get you to YBBB. Doesn't work like that.
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Lasiorhinus is correct.
In any ETP/CP, that's the point where pushing ahead to your destination requires the same time as coming back to your departure airport. In case you go OEI just before the ETP/CP, you will return and will be required to have the 30 mins WX holding as reserve.
If you push ahead as Lasiorhinus said, even though you may have enough fuel to land, you will not have your reserves intact, and that's against the rules.
This thread just refuses to die, doesn't it ?
In any ETP/CP, that's the point where pushing ahead to your destination requires the same time as coming back to your departure airport. In case you go OEI just before the ETP/CP, you will return and will be required to have the 30 mins WX holding as reserve.
If you push ahead as Lasiorhinus said, even though you may have enough fuel to land, you will not have your reserves intact, and that's against the rules.
This thread just refuses to die, doesn't it ?
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Thread still going?
Hey guys
great thread - not sure if any of you guys are still keeping an eye on it but if so, thanks for all the great tipps!
Got a question though. Working on some practice exams, and seem to be stuck at a question that's almost embarrassing... I think I must be missing somethign really obvious! Question is something like (don't want to infringe any copyrights...) FL310, GW 68t, ISA+10, M0.82. OEI Max Alt is? 22400ft, 25800ft, 27200ft or 26400ft. I interpolated and picked 27200, which apparently is wrong though. Any ideas why?? The thing that throws me out is the M0.82. does that really matter?? I thought OEI is LRC anyway? I figured it was just a useless piece of info, just to throw you off a bit... or am I actually ment to cruise at this speed??
Hope someone's still reading the post
Cheers
Vince
great thread - not sure if any of you guys are still keeping an eye on it but if so, thanks for all the great tipps!
Got a question though. Working on some practice exams, and seem to be stuck at a question that's almost embarrassing... I think I must be missing somethign really obvious! Question is something like (don't want to infringe any copyrights...) FL310, GW 68t, ISA+10, M0.82. OEI Max Alt is? 22400ft, 25800ft, 27200ft or 26400ft. I interpolated and picked 27200, which apparently is wrong though. Any ideas why?? The thing that throws me out is the M0.82. does that really matter?? I thought OEI is LRC anyway? I figured it was just a useless piece of info, just to throw you off a bit... or am I actually ment to cruise at this speed??
Hope someone's still reading the post
Cheers
Vince