Interesting read re: Instructors in May Australian Aviation Mag.
Thread Starter
Interesting read re: Instructors in May Australian Aviation Mag.
Gidday all,
Just got to the end of this months' Australian Aviation Mag, VERY interesting reading in regards to Instructor numbers in Australia (p91 Right Hand Seat).
Basically, for Financial Years 2002- 2007, total Instructor numbers have fallen from 5449 in '02 to just 2590 in '07, a reduction of 52%.
Even more interesting are the numbers for Grade 3 Instructors- down from 1942 in '02 to only 685 in '07, a reduction of 65%!
So what's going on then?
Is it that-
a) Operators have being taking advantage of newly minted Instructors financially- either paying below the award or not at all, with the promise of better progression/ conditions down the track- and are now paying the price as new CPL's are getting better deals elsewhere (ie: Charter)?
OR;
b) Charter is being seen as a better way to progress to the Airlines (if that's what the aspiration is).
OR;
c) There is simply not as much need for Grade 3 Instructors in Australia due to a shrinking GA sector?
Does this mean (generally) that a new Grade 3 could look forward to properly salaried (at least Award), full time Employment upon qualifying??
This interests me greatly, as in coming months I've got the choice to make between converting my UK MECIR to an Aussie one, or doing an Instructors Rating.
Numbers like this tell me that it should be possible to train for the Rating at a larger school with the possibility of Employment afterwards.
Are the numbers hiding something that I'm not aware of?
Your thoughts and comments would be most welcome.
Cheers,
Gearup.
Just got to the end of this months' Australian Aviation Mag, VERY interesting reading in regards to Instructor numbers in Australia (p91 Right Hand Seat).
Basically, for Financial Years 2002- 2007, total Instructor numbers have fallen from 5449 in '02 to just 2590 in '07, a reduction of 52%.
Even more interesting are the numbers for Grade 3 Instructors- down from 1942 in '02 to only 685 in '07, a reduction of 65%!
So what's going on then?
Is it that-
a) Operators have being taking advantage of newly minted Instructors financially- either paying below the award or not at all, with the promise of better progression/ conditions down the track- and are now paying the price as new CPL's are getting better deals elsewhere (ie: Charter)?
OR;
b) Charter is being seen as a better way to progress to the Airlines (if that's what the aspiration is).
OR;
c) There is simply not as much need for Grade 3 Instructors in Australia due to a shrinking GA sector?
Does this mean (generally) that a new Grade 3 could look forward to properly salaried (at least Award), full time Employment upon qualifying??
This interests me greatly, as in coming months I've got the choice to make between converting my UK MECIR to an Aussie one, or doing an Instructors Rating.
Numbers like this tell me that it should be possible to train for the Rating at a larger school with the possibility of Employment afterwards.
Are the numbers hiding something that I'm not aware of?
Your thoughts and comments would be most welcome.
Cheers,
Gearup.
Dont do it for the 'possibility'... negotiate with a few schools NOW for a job upon completion of the rating.
Get a firm offer before you pay them a cent for the rating. This way, the school that offers you the best deal will be the one who gets your business.
Get a firm offer before you pay them a cent for the rating. This way, the school that offers you the best deal will be the one who gets your business.
Thread Starter
Does that actually happen....
Hi mate,
Thanks for replying.
Has this scenario actually happened- with people nailing down a job prior to training for the Rating?
If so, my choice will be that much easier.
Cheers,
Gearup.
Thanks for replying.
Has this scenario actually happened- with people nailing down a job prior to training for the Rating?
If so, my choice will be that much easier.
Cheers,
Gearup.
Ive no idea... but when you wave ten grand in front of a business, but let them know you've waved the same pile of notes in front of some other businesses as well, you'll very quickly find out which are the ones operated by good businessmen, and which are too full of their own importance.
At the very least, you'll know which school to do your rating at, if you can't secure a job beforehand. And be prepared for it being a conditional offer - but get it in writing.
If none of this seems to be working, get your instrument rating instead
At the very least, you'll know which school to do your rating at, if you can't secure a job beforehand. And be prepared for it being a conditional offer - but get it in writing.
If none of this seems to be working, get your instrument rating instead
instructor jobs
A slightly different opinion to lasiorhinus on this one. Personally i would avoid a school giving me a job assurance up front. I would never employ someone without knowing how he flies, treats customers, and conducts himself. The industry is healthy at the moment and employment prospects are good. If the school promises a job up front i feel they would be more concerned about the grab for cash rather than providing the best standard of instruction they can. I believe that you should treat your instructor rating like a 2 month job interview. No school of any repute will let a good instructor graduate slip therough their fingers. The other consideration is to find out the value of the job. Does it pay award salaries, is morale high, are students happy to be at the school etc. No good if the job offered is sitting answering phones doing two hours flying a week. Good luck with it. Cheers.
This interests me greatly, as in coming months I've got the choice to make between converting my UK MECIR to an Aussie one, or doing an Instructors Rating.
Good luck
.
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Just got to the end of this months' Australian Aviation Mag, VERY interesting reading in regards to Instructor numbers in Australia (p91 Right Hand Seat).
oh this is an easy one.
My first year instructing, I worked 5 on 2 off, then 6 on 1 off. I maxed CAO 48 and then some, worked hard. Did a lot of duties that weren't really in my job description and didnt even take a holiday.
Total pay : $12,650
Hey at least I didn't have to pay much tax !
After becoming a grade II things got a tad better, but not much. At least I had enough money to eat properly now. As a grade I got about as much as a harvey norman salesman. Quite comparable those 2 jobs
.
I always thought it interesting the argument used for regional airlines regarding pay levels being governed more by the passenger revenue than supply demand of pilots. It make vague sense. I can say with confidence however that these sausage factories are making millions and pay peanuts because they can. Well, did. There is a type of attitude or expectation inertia with instructors being carried over from old times. Whilst there is a chronic (real, not imagined) shortage, what they expect to be payed hasn't really changed that much. I know people who are starting out today and happily accept still getting compensated with pay claims, classed as a subcontractor. Something that you would struggle to make $15 grand in a year. Why? Well you have to don't you?
This all stems from employers using years of slim times for pilots to build this bull**** concept of your first GA job as being your 'apprenticeship', somehow trying to suggest that 'poor conditions are a necessary part of the process' and 'you should be thankful I'm letting you fly at all'
But its all changing now as everyone quits and places like basair have less than half their normal compliment of instructors.
Oh and teaching wave after wave of indians becomes tiresome.
My first year instructing, I worked 5 on 2 off, then 6 on 1 off. I maxed CAO 48 and then some, worked hard. Did a lot of duties that weren't really in my job description and didnt even take a holiday.
Total pay : $12,650
Hey at least I didn't have to pay much tax !
After becoming a grade II things got a tad better, but not much. At least I had enough money to eat properly now. As a grade I got about as much as a harvey norman salesman. Quite comparable those 2 jobs
. I always thought it interesting the argument used for regional airlines regarding pay levels being governed more by the passenger revenue than supply demand of pilots. It make vague sense. I can say with confidence however that these sausage factories are making millions and pay peanuts because they can. Well, did. There is a type of attitude or expectation inertia with instructors being carried over from old times. Whilst there is a chronic (real, not imagined) shortage, what they expect to be payed hasn't really changed that much. I know people who are starting out today and happily accept still getting compensated with pay claims, classed as a subcontractor. Something that you would struggle to make $15 grand in a year. Why? Well you have to don't you?
This all stems from employers using years of slim times for pilots to build this bull**** concept of your first GA job as being your 'apprenticeship', somehow trying to suggest that 'poor conditions are a necessary part of the process' and 'you should be thankful I'm letting you fly at all'
But its all changing now as everyone quits and places like basair have less than half their normal compliment of instructors.
Oh and teaching wave after wave of indians becomes tiresome.
I was lucky and had already been offered some work prior to doing my Flight Instructors course at the start of the year. However I don’t think it would be hard to find a place that needs instructors.
I agree glenb. I think you would be better off completing the course and showing the school you skill / professionalism towards instructing. You never know, they may even put the question to you towards the end of the course.
Stretch
(my POV and opinion come with slightly less experience then others...
)
I agree glenb. I think you would be better off completing the course and showing the school you skill / professionalism towards instructing. You never know, they may even put the question to you towards the end of the course.
Stretch
(my POV and opinion come with slightly less experience then others...
)
Well pay people peanuts, expect them to work every weekend, fly some ****box old Cessna or Piper, no real career structure and then the joy of working under some egotistical CFI and combine that with the local aero club committee.
A grade 3 rating costs about $10,000 better off going towards a B737/A320 type rating.
A grade 3 rating costs about $10,000 better off going towards a B737/A320 type rating.
