Lancair Legacy
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Sunny,
I vaguely remember reading a report on a modified Lancair which stalled and spun in, and it sounds like your friend. Was this the case?
Maybe you can direct us to the ATSB report?
If that is the same one its a bit unfair to bundle it in with all standard lancairs. I do believe they are a machine for the well trained and prepared, not an average Joe weekend warrior, but I do not think that they can not be operated safely.
J
I vaguely remember reading a report on a modified Lancair which stalled and spun in, and it sounds like your friend. Was this the case?
Maybe you can direct us to the ATSB report?
If that is the same one its a bit unfair to bundle it in with all standard lancairs. I do believe they are a machine for the well trained and prepared, not an average Joe weekend warrior, but I do not think that they can not be operated safely.
J
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Lancair 320 360 and IV - high stall speed compared with most of the GA fleet, nasty stall behaviour with little/no warning or buffet, fibreglass. Engine failure usually results in a non-survivable situation if off airport (if you go too slow, you spin in; if you keep your speed up you've got an emergency landing at 90 Kts in a fibreglass aircraft - lotsa kinetic energy). Only time I've REALLY scared myself has been practising stalls in a Lancair 360 on a familiarisation flight [yeah yeah, I know, you don't buy Lancair to go slow...]. Have been several accidents similar to the one that Sunfish has mentioned (a colleague of mine was killed in that one) - I recall one near St Lawrence in Qld with a female pilot about 9 years ago, I think.
The Legacy may well have a different airfoil and behaviours and perhaps there have been some mods to the original Lancair fleet that have improved the sitation, but I'm not up to speed on that, I'll admit.
The Legacy may well have a different airfoil and behaviours and perhaps there have been some mods to the original Lancair fleet that have improved the sitation, but I'm not up to speed on that, I'll admit.
SAAA now has a Lancair operators group, it's members are highly skilled operators and know all the tricks and traps. These guys know their ships, and stay well within the envelope of the ship, and themselves. 
Specialist coaching/famil on type is available out there. One would be wise to take advantage of the wealth of Lancair experience in OZ.
Specialist coaching/famil on type is available out there. One would be wise to take advantage of the wealth of Lancair experience in OZ.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Some great info on this fast (literally( growing plane.
I know very little of them really but what someone said earlier in this thread was check the insurance requirements for this type of A/C. They will know (probably by pay-out experience) what there like risk wise.
Very high premiums mean one thing, high risk!
CW
I know very little of them really but what someone said earlier in this thread was check the insurance requirements for this type of A/C. They will know (probably by pay-out experience) what there like risk wise.
Very high premiums mean one thing, high risk!
CW
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Lots of good advice in the above posts.
I have some experience on the Lancair 360 although I don’t know how the handling characteristics compare to a Legacy, but I would imagine the same cautions could possibly apply. As you are an experienced military pilot and I assume, are cautious and listen to reasoned advice, the only detail I would emphasise is that if you insist on exploring the low speed characteristics (stalls/spins) of the aircraft, that you do it from a great height and get a thorough briefing from someone who has actually done it. The successful recovery from such manoeuvres may result from control inputs which could be quite different from those you have been use to in previous types.
I have some experience on the Lancair 360 although I don’t know how the handling characteristics compare to a Legacy, but I would imagine the same cautions could possibly apply. As you are an experienced military pilot and I assume, are cautious and listen to reasoned advice, the only detail I would emphasise is that if you insist on exploring the low speed characteristics (stalls/spins) of the aircraft, that you do it from a great height and get a thorough briefing from someone who has actually done it. The successful recovery from such manoeuvres may result from control inputs which could be quite different from those you have been use to in previous types.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Another one,
Two men people died Thursday morning when a homebuilt Lancair Legacy FG crashed while attempting to land at Wittman Regional Airport.
Authorities identified the victims as the plane's owner, Roger W. Bach, 62, of Carnegie, Penn., and John S. Linden, 56, of Washington, Penn
It remains unclear who was piloting the two-seat plane when it crashed just short of the east end of the airport’s east-west runway at 9:36 a.m., said Dick Knapinski, spokesman for the Experimental Aircraft Association.
Knapinski said there is no indication that there was anything unusual about the pilot’s approach or the conditions during landing, although he did not know if the pilot had indicated a problem to the control tower.
Emergency responders worked behind tarps to remove the crash victims from the airplane, which landed upside down in the grass.
One Lancair pilot, who asked that his name not be used, described Lancair owners as a close-knit community.
He said pilots need to be proficient to fly the airplanes, but could not speculate on why the airplane stalled. However, he said, it is uncommon for that to happen.
“You need to have training and you need to be a proficient pilot to fly this plane,” he said.
The incident is under investigation by the National Transportation Safety Board and the Federal Aviation Administration.
This was the third crash on the airport grounds this week and the only fatal crash. On Wednesday, a piper Tri-Pacer crashed while landing shortly after 1 p.m. It’s three occupants were transported to an Oshkosh hospital with minor injuries. On Sunday, a pilot was transported to a hospital away after a RANS S-6ES fixed wing single-engine plane flipped over on Sunday afternoon at the ultralight field.
Authorities identified the victims as the plane's owner, Roger W. Bach, 62, of Carnegie, Penn., and John S. Linden, 56, of Washington, Penn
It remains unclear who was piloting the two-seat plane when it crashed just short of the east end of the airport’s east-west runway at 9:36 a.m., said Dick Knapinski, spokesman for the Experimental Aircraft Association.
Knapinski said there is no indication that there was anything unusual about the pilot’s approach or the conditions during landing, although he did not know if the pilot had indicated a problem to the control tower.
Emergency responders worked behind tarps to remove the crash victims from the airplane, which landed upside down in the grass.
One Lancair pilot, who asked that his name not be used, described Lancair owners as a close-knit community.
He said pilots need to be proficient to fly the airplanes, but could not speculate on why the airplane stalled. However, he said, it is uncommon for that to happen.
“You need to have training and you need to be a proficient pilot to fly this plane,” he said.
The incident is under investigation by the National Transportation Safety Board and the Federal Aviation Administration.
This was the third crash on the airport grounds this week and the only fatal crash. On Wednesday, a piper Tri-Pacer crashed while landing shortly after 1 p.m. It’s three occupants were transported to an Oshkosh hospital with minor injuries. On Sunday, a pilot was transported to a hospital away after a RANS S-6ES fixed wing single-engine plane flipped over on Sunday afternoon at the ultralight field.
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Why not go for the Cirrus SR22 G3 turbo ? At least you have got the Chute if you do enter a spin
Being able to pull the "big red handle" is not a substitute for proper training and good airmanship. The cockpit design of Cirrus (and Columbia) could easily deceive a pilot into thinking they are in a "car that flies" and that they can pull over to the side of the road if things go wrong.
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I wouldn't be worried about stalling a Cirrus unless you do something really dump so the chute should never be required unless you do something retarded.
I see a Lancair spun into the ground when turning final at OskKosh yesterday. Another one bites the dust unfortunately, 2 x killed.
I see a Lancair spun into the ground when turning final at OskKosh yesterday. Another one bites the dust unfortunately, 2 x killed.
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Another for consideration
Nemesis NXT Official Internet Site
Nemesis NXT Official Internet Site
Turbine Lancair
I've seen a Lancair turbine powered that lives at Maroochydore MCY (Sunshine Coast Airport). Sounds awesome & loud too - just the way real aeroplanes should sound! 
Rego was LWL, or WLW or something like that - but definetly looks strange with big turbine up front. I've played with Lancair 320's & 360's, but I'd like to give this one a run? ... What sort of turbine's are in them??
Rego was LWL, or WLW or something like that - but definetly looks strange with big turbine up front. I've played with Lancair 320's & 360's, but I'd like to give this one a run? ... What sort of turbine's are in them??
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Mr Private Partz.
I suggest you look at this website: Why Cirrus - Cirrus Design Corp.
Have a good read, following that, you can modify your post.
BTW: The FAA did not require Cirrus to demonstrate Spins, however EASA DID...and the Cirrus past the test.
You are welcome to prove this. Please research and post any real/actual events where a fatality occured in a Cirrus 'with the parachute deployed', IAW the aircraft's POH. I am not aware of any but please go ahead and prove your comment. I could be wrong.
Safety Record:
The Cirrus safety record in a snapshot of 2007 NTSB speaks for itself.
2007 US General Aviation Mishaps (NTSB)
Why Cirrus - General Aviation Safety 2007
I fully agree with the only sensible comment you made in your post;
It goes without saying, the above comment is true for all types of aircraft.
Both Cirrus & Columbia (now Cessna) are both well built and safe. Like it or not Mr Partz, these types have now set the benchmark.
I look forward to your retraction or post modification.
I suggest you look at this website: Why Cirrus - Cirrus Design Corp.
Have a good read, following that, you can modify your post.
BTW: The FAA did not require Cirrus to demonstrate Spins, however EASA DID...and the Cirrus past the test.
- there have been fatal accidents with the parachute deployed.
Safety Record:
The Cirrus safety record in a snapshot of 2007 NTSB speaks for itself.
2007 US General Aviation Mishaps (NTSB)
Why Cirrus - General Aviation Safety 2007
I fully agree with the only sensible comment you made in your post;
Being able to pull the "big red handle" is not a substitute for proper training and good airmanship.
Both Cirrus & Columbia (now Cessna) are both well built and safe. Like it or not Mr Partz, these types have now set the benchmark.
I look forward to your retraction or post modification.
Last edited by Oz Cirrus; 4th Aug 2008 at 15:28. Reason: To fix link
Could it be that the Lancair has been unfortunate to end up in the hands of those not quite up to the speed of the plane???
edPut someone who's only ever flown a 152 in a Trinidad and watch the same thing happen until they get used to the speed and the handling characteristics.
Be careful - they are as slippery as dog$hit, but fun
Nah, it's cause the certified spin recovery in the flight manual is to pull the chute. Fairly sure they never tested a opposite rudder etc recovery, although I'd be trying one before pulling the chute.
On a side note, Oz Cirrus, would you happen to sell them? I'm fairly sure there was one that went in west of Camden somewhere a year or so ago that was either fatal or a serious injury, when they had engine trouble, could have flown a forced landing but decided to use the chute. Not sure of specifics, I'm sure someone who knows their way around the ATSB database will be able to find it if they try.
Then again I could be mistaken, but I know one did crash and used the chute, and the general consensus was that they should have flown it in. I think a test pilot was killed in a chute related incident in one too. Again not sure. Sorry if I've confused everyone
On a side note, Oz Cirrus, would you happen to sell them? I'm fairly sure there was one that went in west of Camden somewhere a year or so ago that was either fatal or a serious injury, when they had engine trouble, could have flown a forced landing but decided to use the chute. Not sure of specifics, I'm sure someone who knows their way around the ATSB database will be able to find it if they try.
Then again I could be mistaken, but I know one did crash and used the chute, and the general consensus was that they should have flown it in. I think a test pilot was killed in a chute related incident in one too. Again not sure. Sorry if I've confused everyone
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Capt, You are right. Went in next to the M7 close to Hoxton Park and chute was deployed but did not assist much- either too late, too fast or something. - serious injuries.
This bloke Cirrus SR20 (and a bit about the SR22) has some interesting things to say about the chute.
Like
'If all else fails... pull the parachute. Unfortunately, as of July 2005 all of the folks who actually needed the parachute to save their lives are in fact dead.'
and
'By contrast it seems that quite a few of the folks who have pulled the parachute and lived would very likely have either not gotten into trouble if they'd been flying a Cessna or would have been able to recover and land at an airport.'
Hummmm.
This bloke Cirrus SR20 (and a bit about the SR22) has some interesting things to say about the chute.
Like
'If all else fails... pull the parachute. Unfortunately, as of July 2005 all of the folks who actually needed the parachute to save their lives are in fact dead.'
and
'By contrast it seems that quite a few of the folks who have pulled the parachute and lived would very likely have either not gotten into trouble if they'd been flying a Cessna or would have been able to recover and land at an airport.'
Hummmm.