Merged: Qantas Shorthaul Cabin Crew EBA
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Domestos,
But wait there's more:Vote now on the s/h EBA and we will transfer you across to L/H and give you more flying
To be honest the L/H union has given their fair share of dispensations on the basis of industrial harmony.
But wait there's more:Vote now on the s/h EBA and we will transfer you across to L/H and give you more flying
To be honest the L/H union has given their fair share of dispensations on the basis of industrial harmony.
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Transfers
I can understand that LH are worried about SH coming over and taking promotions, seniority etc, however, the only way QF FA (and not QCCA) numbers will grow is by transfers from SH.
When the next longhaul EBA comes around in 5 years, you will benefit from having more QF FA's. If QCCA numbers become greater then QF, then who knows what will happen.
When the next longhaul EBA comes around in 5 years, you will benefit from having more QF FA's. If QCCA numbers become greater then QF, then who knows what will happen.
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Most of the tranferees on the Divisional Transfer list (that I have spoken to anyway) are about 10 years seniority or less, so I guess the fear of being pushed down in seniority for the purposes of bidding is not that great a threat. Besides, I agree with the previous message poster before me.....it is better to have more full time QF crew as there is solidarity in numbers. Lets face it....be it LH or SH....all full time non-QCCA and non-MAM crew are a dying breed.
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Quote-
"When the next longhaul EBA comes around in 5 years, you will benefit from having more QF FA's. If QCCA numbers become greater then QF, then who knows what will happen."
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Good point.........
"When the next longhaul EBA comes around in 5 years, you will benefit from having more QF FA's. If QCCA numbers become greater then QF, then who knows what will happen."
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Good point.........
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1 May 2008
Attention all Qantas Longhaul Flight Attendants
DIVISIONAL TRANSFERS
There have been some messages on the CIS Screen and on the Cabin Crew Website that have caused some consternation among CSM’s in particular. The Domestic Regional FAAA, have also issued newsletters to their members that pre-empted the formalisation of discussions between the FAAA and the Company.
In 1992 the FAAA (both Division) and Qantas agreed on a principle of “global” seniority following the merger of Australian Airlines and Qantas Airways Limited insofar as Seniority of Cabin Crew was concerned. A trigger mechanism for recognition of seniority was implemented and this in fact took place many years ago.
The issue of CSM or (FSD and Purser) transfers in category was never resolved and resulted in Onboard Managers wishing to transfer between divisions downgrading to Flight Attendant in the new division.
Following the announcement of the closure of the Long Haul Perth Base an agreement was reached between both divisions of the FAAA and Qantas that CSM’s would be able to transfer in category as a result of the Perth Base Closure. The concern of both divisions of the FAAA was the potential effect this may have on promotional opportunities.
Qantas Cabin Crew Management have always wanted to be able to transfer CSM’s between divisions but both divisions of the FAAA have always been concerned about the potential effect on promotion and have been discussing the mechanics of how this might occur without affecting base transfers and denying promotional opportunities.
It is always an emotive issue and the discussions have been at times colourful at our council meetings. A compromise position has been reached that benefits CSM’s who may wish to transfer whilst at the same time protecting the bases and promotional opportunities.
The Company has always been able to determine the number of crew who can transfer between divisions. There is no requirement for a set number. Operational circumstances have always been the determining factor in the numbers of crew to be transferred.
During the recent Long Haul EBA negotiations the issue of CSM transfers was canvassed again with your Long Haul officials and we were mindful of the views of the wider membership and we reached a compromise position which I will outline below.
• The company may continue to offer transfers between the respective divisions as operational circumstances permit.
• In the cases of Hardship or significant changes to personal circumstances, the AEC (Alternate Employment Committee) may also review transfer matters on a case by case basis in accordance with its charter.
• CSM’s will also be able to transfer in category between the divisions but only on a one for one basis and within the same geographic bases. For example if a LH CSM in Sydney wished to transfer to SH Sydney then a transfer can be affected. If there was no SH CSM wanting to go to LH Sydney then no category transfer could be affected. This would also apply in reverse.
• This Category transfer process agreement is designed to ensure promotional opportunities are not eroded in either division whilst at the same time giving CSM’s the ability to move between divisions if there are equal numbers wishing to do so in the other division.
• The transfers must be carried out at the same time, so that no imbalance in numbers occurs in either division.
Of course we recognise that the whole issue of choice, seniority and career progression are paramount to our members and we are confident that this balanced approach will both fulfil the changing needs of our members whilst at the same time protecting those things that are important to others.
The recent EBA8 has opened significant promotional opportunities for Long Haul Flight Attendants; it will unblock base transfer issues, create opportunities for thousands of new jobs to be created in the Long Haul Division (most importantly in AUSTRALIA) and will provide opportunities for part-time for crew with family or other responsibilities.
We are meeting with the Company on an almost daily basis given the significant amount of change dealing with the implementation of the EBA and all the benefits that flow from a successful EBA outcome.
Despite all the benefits of the EBA, there may be some flight attendants who wish to transfer to Short Haul. This swap provision will facilitate this. If however no Long Haul CSMs in particular wish to move to short haul in category, then the agreement will not permit SH CSMs to transfer to LH either. This of course works in reverse.
I hope this clears up any misunderstandings and assuages any concerns about the future career aspirations of crew.
Written and authorised by Steven Reed – President International Division
Attention all Qantas Longhaul Flight Attendants
DIVISIONAL TRANSFERS
There have been some messages on the CIS Screen and on the Cabin Crew Website that have caused some consternation among CSM’s in particular. The Domestic Regional FAAA, have also issued newsletters to their members that pre-empted the formalisation of discussions between the FAAA and the Company.
In 1992 the FAAA (both Division) and Qantas agreed on a principle of “global” seniority following the merger of Australian Airlines and Qantas Airways Limited insofar as Seniority of Cabin Crew was concerned. A trigger mechanism for recognition of seniority was implemented and this in fact took place many years ago.
The issue of CSM or (FSD and Purser) transfers in category was never resolved and resulted in Onboard Managers wishing to transfer between divisions downgrading to Flight Attendant in the new division.
Following the announcement of the closure of the Long Haul Perth Base an agreement was reached between both divisions of the FAAA and Qantas that CSM’s would be able to transfer in category as a result of the Perth Base Closure. The concern of both divisions of the FAAA was the potential effect this may have on promotional opportunities.
Qantas Cabin Crew Management have always wanted to be able to transfer CSM’s between divisions but both divisions of the FAAA have always been concerned about the potential effect on promotion and have been discussing the mechanics of how this might occur without affecting base transfers and denying promotional opportunities.
It is always an emotive issue and the discussions have been at times colourful at our council meetings. A compromise position has been reached that benefits CSM’s who may wish to transfer whilst at the same time protecting the bases and promotional opportunities.
The Company has always been able to determine the number of crew who can transfer between divisions. There is no requirement for a set number. Operational circumstances have always been the determining factor in the numbers of crew to be transferred.
During the recent Long Haul EBA negotiations the issue of CSM transfers was canvassed again with your Long Haul officials and we were mindful of the views of the wider membership and we reached a compromise position which I will outline below.
• The company may continue to offer transfers between the respective divisions as operational circumstances permit.
• In the cases of Hardship or significant changes to personal circumstances, the AEC (Alternate Employment Committee) may also review transfer matters on a case by case basis in accordance with its charter.
• CSM’s will also be able to transfer in category between the divisions but only on a one for one basis and within the same geographic bases. For example if a LH CSM in Sydney wished to transfer to SH Sydney then a transfer can be affected. If there was no SH CSM wanting to go to LH Sydney then no category transfer could be affected. This would also apply in reverse.
• This Category transfer process agreement is designed to ensure promotional opportunities are not eroded in either division whilst at the same time giving CSM’s the ability to move between divisions if there are equal numbers wishing to do so in the other division.
• The transfers must be carried out at the same time, so that no imbalance in numbers occurs in either division.
Of course we recognise that the whole issue of choice, seniority and career progression are paramount to our members and we are confident that this balanced approach will both fulfil the changing needs of our members whilst at the same time protecting those things that are important to others.
The recent EBA8 has opened significant promotional opportunities for Long Haul Flight Attendants; it will unblock base transfer issues, create opportunities for thousands of new jobs to be created in the Long Haul Division (most importantly in AUSTRALIA) and will provide opportunities for part-time for crew with family or other responsibilities.
We are meeting with the Company on an almost daily basis given the significant amount of change dealing with the implementation of the EBA and all the benefits that flow from a successful EBA outcome.
Despite all the benefits of the EBA, there may be some flight attendants who wish to transfer to Short Haul. This swap provision will facilitate this. If however no Long Haul CSMs in particular wish to move to short haul in category, then the agreement will not permit SH CSMs to transfer to LH either. This of course works in reverse.
I hope this clears up any misunderstandings and assuages any concerns about the future career aspirations of crew.
Written and authorised by Steven Reed – President International Division
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SH CSMs will be asked for expressions of interest to transfer to LH as CSMs otherwise LH will be looking at QCCA's who have been interviewed for the CSM position being allocatted.........................which would you prefer? SH who have had some experience or QCCA who r 20? and want experience?
And take note QCCA's have been interviewd for the CSM position
And take note QCCA's have been interviewd for the CSM position
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i would prefer a new long haul flight attendant who is promoted to CSM from Long Haul rather than a Beehive with 30 years experience flying from bumble**** to proserpine.
Given further choice i would prefer an ex LH crewmember who has been in short haul, wanting to shake off the remnants of that culture and return to International flying.
Given further choice i would prefer an ex LH crewmember who has been in short haul, wanting to shake off the remnants of that culture and return to International flying.
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I reckon I know what the answer would be from s/h and the beehive union if a bunch of csm's from l/h wanted to jump ship and transfer across to the domestics in category.
c'mon boys and girls stick to the agreement.If you want to go for the job then transfer across and wait for the next intake and do all the bells and whistles they expect everyone else to do.
there are people in l/h who have waited for a chance for a crack at the job so why should s/h have it any easier.
this is why there is so much feeling against s/h.we have a agreement with s/h but s/h reckons that only applys to l/h and if it suits them they should be able to brake it.
c'mon boys and girls stick to the agreement.If you want to go for the job then transfer across and wait for the next intake and do all the bells and whistles they expect everyone else to do.
there are people in l/h who have waited for a chance for a crack at the job so why should s/h have it any easier.
this is why there is so much feeling against s/h.we have a agreement with s/h but s/h reckons that only applys to l/h and if it suits them they should be able to brake it.
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QCCA any day! the domestics have no idea how much resentment they have created against them, they are plain simply loathed in LH
Anyway, there are heaps of people they can select in LH before they even look at QCCA, yes its true some QCCA have been interviewed, buts only a "token" interview if you know what I mean.
which would you prefer? SH who have had some experience or QCCA who r 20? and want experience?
Anyway, there are heaps of people they can select in LH before they even look at QCCA, yes its true some QCCA have been interviewed, buts only a "token" interview if you know what I mean.
Last edited by cartexchange; 2nd May 2008 at 13:58.
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cartexchange......oh dear....I'm gonna be petrified when I come across to LH if I know I will be hated by my fellow crew. I'm just gonna be me, do my work, shut up and not buy into or comment about the politics of the past. I know I am powerless to change what happened with EBA 7 and how flying was stripped away from LH. I'm just gonna blend in and enjoy the relaxed and calm work ethic at LH...unlike working with the beehive who stress out and are so anal retentive that if they sat down, they'd swallow up their own honeycomb.
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you will be fine Domestos, LH crew are not as petty as the domestics and we usually don't take it out on the individual.
its the beehive brigade and their greed and selfishness we despise.
Their act of betrayal to our work conditions will never be forgotten or forgiven.
And when the president of the FAAA went to work in the LHR base that was the ultimate act of "beehive bastardy Behaviour"
its the beehive brigade and their greed and selfishness we despise.
Their act of betrayal to our work conditions will never be forgotten or forgiven.
And when the president of the FAAA went to work in the LHR base that was the ultimate act of "beehive bastardy Behaviour"
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Look I am the last person that will defend the domestic faaa. However if my memory serves me correctly wasnt it the long haul faaa that came to us cap in hand requesting that long haul CSM's be transfered in category when the Perth based closed? Never before had CSM's ever been transfered like that therefore we wouldnt be seeing this opportunity for CSM's to transfer to either division if it wasnt for the initial request by the long haul faaa in the first instance.
RedTBar, I thnk short haul has done the same remember back in 2001/2002 there were hundreds of long haul crew transfered to short haul due to sept 11, SARS the start of the middle east war etc and we accepted this no questions asked as I for one certainly would not want to see a fellow crew member out of job when one was available in another division. Therfore I personally think it only fair it goes both ways. We never saw the numbers transfered to long haul from short haul that came our way.
Pegasus747, I think you would find the beehive girls would never go to long haul anyway. The CSM's that bid for regional flying do so because they choose to and enjoy it and really know what they are doing by all accounts and the vast majority are ex long haul anyway.
Just on another note I noticed from previous posts that you mention the long haul faaa did not want to see a closure of the Perth and Cairns bases therefore the percentage of regional flying would be retained by those bases. However I note from the new long haul bid book that Perth will loose just about all their regional flying Hong Kong has already gone and from the start of your next bid period Singaapore is going as well, this will create even more surplus crew within short haul.
Something is certainly going on though re divisional transfers and I am sure this is linked to the up-coming EBA. Interesting times ahead.
RedTBar, I thnk short haul has done the same remember back in 2001/2002 there were hundreds of long haul crew transfered to short haul due to sept 11, SARS the start of the middle east war etc and we accepted this no questions asked as I for one certainly would not want to see a fellow crew member out of job when one was available in another division. Therfore I personally think it only fair it goes both ways. We never saw the numbers transfered to long haul from short haul that came our way.
Pegasus747, I think you would find the beehive girls would never go to long haul anyway. The CSM's that bid for regional flying do so because they choose to and enjoy it and really know what they are doing by all accounts and the vast majority are ex long haul anyway.
Just on another note I noticed from previous posts that you mention the long haul faaa did not want to see a closure of the Perth and Cairns bases therefore the percentage of regional flying would be retained by those bases. However I note from the new long haul bid book that Perth will loose just about all their regional flying Hong Kong has already gone and from the start of your next bid period Singaapore is going as well, this will create even more surplus crew within short haul.
Something is certainly going on though re divisional transfers and I am sure this is linked to the up-coming EBA. Interesting times ahead.
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Given that no long Haul CSM's wish to transfer to Short Haul unfortunately there can be no reciprocal transfer in category.
As for the SHort Haul EBA, the FAAA SH need to recognise that LH are not the competition. Virgin Blue, Team Jetstar and Tiger are the competition. The EBA outcome is more likely to reflect that reality rather than the view that SH is competing with LH.
The LH EBA8 recognised that their competition is Singapore Airlines and Emirates. Given that reality check the EBA was geared towards being able to compete on an effective Intl basis.
The new entrants couple with some work practice changes have put us back in the ball park.
The Company has clearly re-defined its operations and sees LH very much as the International Division. And SH as the Domestic Division. Much of the competition domestically will be the battle ground for EBA8 SH negotiations and the company is expecting the SH FAAA to make themselves more competitive on the domestic front.
Dropping trips, FWA, and a range of things will be up for discussion given the Team Jetstar EBA and the new entrants in the domestic market.
Let's move on from Regional FLying ETC. Its a DONE DEAL and there is no going back. The lines have been drawn and you have to order from the menu you are given not the restuarant next door
As for the SHort Haul EBA, the FAAA SH need to recognise that LH are not the competition. Virgin Blue, Team Jetstar and Tiger are the competition. The EBA outcome is more likely to reflect that reality rather than the view that SH is competing with LH.
The LH EBA8 recognised that their competition is Singapore Airlines and Emirates. Given that reality check the EBA was geared towards being able to compete on an effective Intl basis.
The new entrants couple with some work practice changes have put us back in the ball park.
The Company has clearly re-defined its operations and sees LH very much as the International Division. And SH as the Domestic Division. Much of the competition domestically will be the battle ground for EBA8 SH negotiations and the company is expecting the SH FAAA to make themselves more competitive on the domestic front.
Dropping trips, FWA, and a range of things will be up for discussion given the Team Jetstar EBA and the new entrants in the domestic market.
Let's move on from Regional FLying ETC. Its a DONE DEAL and there is no going back. The lines have been drawn and you have to order from the menu you are given not the restuarant next door
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you are correct Galley hag in some of your points.
It was the FAAA intl that approached the domestics about the CSM transfer.
It was to protect a few individuals in the PER base, its also an act that has not been forgotten my many!
We all found it hard to believe that we opened a can of worms for 4 or 5 individuals that knew what the deal was if they went to PER.
It was the FAAA intl that approached the domestics about the CSM transfer.
It was to protect a few individuals in the PER base, its also an act that has not been forgotten my many!
We all found it hard to believe that we opened a can of worms for 4 or 5 individuals that knew what the deal was if they went to PER.
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Regional Flying Transferred Back to SH during May
A notice was put out from the shorthaul union yesterday entitled 'May Contingency Plans'. Apparently a large amount of flying has been transferred back to shorthaul this month, and a number of steps have been put into place to cover this flying. The company is calling for expressions of interest for people wishing to work days off, pick up extra flying etc. Resources are extremely tight on many days.
This action has been taken to limit the number of patterns currently rostered and covered by the Divisional Flying Agreement being transferred to Long Haul. Qantas will contact the FAAA as soon as practicable if it becomes aware that contingency plans may be needed on any other days during May.
This action has been taken to limit the number of patterns currently rostered and covered by the Divisional Flying Agreement being transferred to Long Haul. Qantas will contact the FAAA as soon as practicable if it becomes aware that contingency plans may be needed on any other days during May.
