Merged: Plane missing south of Sydney...

[Richard G]

ATSB advised me as of 12.15pm AEST today, they still had not located the wreckage.

Previous reports of the wreckage being found are incorrect.

[venturi101]

I guess the constant shift of tides would move it all around abit.
Lets hope its found soon.

[Trash Hauler]

Has anyone heard if the wreckage has been located? I cannot find anything on the ATSB site since they announced that they had not in fact found the aircraft.

Cheers

TH

[bentleg]

Wreckage not located yet

Has anyone heard if the wreckage has been located? I cannot find anything on the ATSB site since they announced that they had not in fact found the aircraft.

A colleague of mine spoke to ATSB today. ATSB said the search for the wreckage is still continuing but being hampered by poor weather. He expects the weather to improve and to be able to resume the search on Sunday. ATSB are working with NSW Police.

They confirmed that they had detected the 'pinger' from the flight data recorder and will now work to narrow down the search area.

[Trash Hauler]

I have checked the ATSB website and still no update. Any one heard how they are going with the recovery?

TH

[carro]

if it was that badly out of CofG how did he manage to get up to 4 grand

[bentleg]

Update obtained from ATSB

A colleague gained this update from ATSB -

They have located a significant wreckage field using sonar
They have used remotely operated vehicles to search for the wreckage
They have only found small pieces of what they believe to be aircraft
panelling and skin and are still looking for the large components
The recovery is hampered by the depth, which is between 100 and 120m,
and the poor light and visibility
The depth of the wreckage precludes use of conventional human divers
They have not yet positively identified the aircraft, but are very
confident that the wreckage is of the Metroliner.
The FDR is a simple 6 parameter recorder, so expected to yield only
limited information.
The aircraft also carried a CVR.
ATSB is committed to completing the recovery operation, but it is taking
much longer than they expected.

[Trojan1981]

Any word on the recovery, all seems to have gone quiet.

[bentleg]

ATSB Preliminary Report

ATSB have issued a preliminary report

[Centaurus]

There were no annotated defects on the last recorded maintenance documentation available to the investigatiion

Once again a potential vital piece of evidence (the current maintenance release)is lost forever due to the archaic CASA requirement this document must be carried on every flight. In almost every fatal accident in Australia especially if the aircraft was totally destroyed, the current maintenance release with its list of recorded defects since last 100 hourly, goes up literally in smoke. ATSB above quote "there were no annotated defects on the last recorded maintenance release". Does that mean the last maintenance release before the current document (now at the bottom of the sea)? It seems incredible this aircraft flew for 100 hours and no defects in that time?

If a copy of a passenger manifest is required by legislation to be left at each point of departure, then it should pose no great impost to the company or pilot to leave a copy of the current maintenance release at each point of departure. That way in event of an accident at least ATSB may get their hands on vital information pertaining to that aircraft and that may have a bearing on the cause of the accident.

Sure it is common knowledge that many GA operators discourage their pilots from writing up defects in the maintenance release, and like the info ATSB discovered after this Metro accident, the previous MR kept on file was clean - nevertheless a record of current defects if annotated on the current maintenance release would surely be of inestimable value to accident investigators.

[Trojan1981]

I found this thread in Rumours and News. It is about a Norwegian Coast Guard Merlin that crashed recently and reportedly sank in 320m of water.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=331955

The wreckage, and the remains of the crew, were recovered very promptly. If this can be done in stormy seas of Norway, why can't it be done here? Surely the Sydney SSR would have recorded a very accurate plot of the descent and impact position of the Metro. The longer the wreckage sits on the bottom of the sea, the greater deterioration of any evidence pointing to the cause of the accident.
I also feel for the family, not having closure.


This link might be of interest too, just to prove that Australia does indeed have the capability to effect a recovery of this nature in a reasonably short time.

http://www.minister.defence.gov.au/N...CurrentId=6450

[bentleg]

This link might be of interest too, just to prove that Australia does indeed have the capability to effect a recovery of this nature in a reasonably short time.

Short? It took three months from the accident.

There is no doubt we have the capability. It took three months to pull up a Westwind in similar circumstances a few years ago.

[Trojan1981]

Yes, it did take nearly four months but the helicopter was in water much deeper than this metro and the recovery crew had to go to Fiji to get it. They also had video evidence and many eyewitness reports (including from survivors) to help establish the cause of the crash. In that case the recovery of the wreckage may not have been so urgent as it may not have been crucial to establishing the cause (speculating here).
I read about the Westwind but am to young to remember it. In the report it states that the RAN withdrew the minehunter supporting the search and recovery, not providing one again untill several months later.

The RAN and contractors such as DMS have much better equipment than they did in the mid-80s and they have more of it. I just thought the recovery would proceed a bit quicker than this. Does anyone know if the RAN or DMS are providing support for the recovery?

[bentleg]

ATSB interim factual report

ATSB have issued an interim factual report

What sort of system failure would cause both the CVR and FDR to not record?

[Miraz]

Bizarre - doesn't bode well for working out what happened does it?

[sprocket check]

Interesting factual points in the preliminary report-discolouration of the recorders paintwork. Usually that would indicate a fire or extensive heat. Where are they located and what systems are close to the recorders?

Why would he disappear off the radar at 3900 so close to the airport? Does the radar have no coverage below 4000 out to sea?

Is there any technical data available on the net about the Metro?

sc

[international hog driver]

Why would he disappear off the radar at 3900 so close to the airport?

A- Transponder either quitting or having its power supply terminated either intentionally or not.

The report makes no comment about primary or secondary returns.

I still reckon its loadshift.

[bentleg]

I still reckon its loadshift

Speculation, but with the evidence of control difficulties it would have to be a possibitity. The dive mentioned by a witness may have been an attempt to gain airspeed.

Transponder either quitting or having its power supply terminated either intentionally or not.

Agree re transponder cut out. Does not explain why the FDR and CVR did not record from the start of the flight. Why did the FDR and CVR not record?

[Jabawocky]

IHD

I agree, and when you read the posts at the bottom of page 4 there is a bit of speculation by someone who seems to know something about the chances of that happening.

Rather strange to have 2 x recorders with nothing beyond the previous flight shutdown.

J

[man on the ground]

Does the radar have no coverage below 4000 out to sea?

Radar coverage, both primary & SSR, down to the water in that area.