Logbook time vs MR time?
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Logbook time vs MR time?
Ive always just logged MR time in my logbook but ive talked to a lot of people recently that tell me they add 0.1 of an hour for every landing and 0.1 for runups etc. What is the go here? Am I supposed to log a few minutes on top or is it perfectly acceptable to just log MR time? My arguement is I run out of hours every month as it is without costing myself more $$ by logging time spent driving around on the ground. Anyone got any insight on this?
Cheers,
'69
Cheers,
'69
Consult your companies Operations Manual. It should be contained in there. Otherwise I think you can find it in the CAAP's. If you're running out without logging the flight time correctly, then I don't think I'd be telling everyone on pprune, 
.
Every place I've come across, it's been MR time + 0.1 for taxi, 0.1 for landing. I think the wording in the relevant section of the Reg's is something like "From the time the aircraft moves under it's own power for the purposes of taking off, to the completion of taxi after landing".
morno
.Every place I've come across, it's been MR time + 0.1 for taxi, 0.1 for landing. I think the wording in the relevant section of the Reg's is something like "From the time the aircraft moves under it's own power for the purposes of taking off, to the completion of taxi after landing".
morno
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Is MR time in your case based on airswitch or a % of power i.e. tacho time?
Where I work flight time is based on engine start to engine shut down (as per the ops manual). Typically a VDO starts measuring this for me once it senses oil pressure, another option is watch time if there is no VDO.
I recommend having a flick through your company ops manual. I may be wrong, but I can't remember reading about this subject anywhere in the regs.
Where I work flight time is based on engine start to engine shut down (as per the ops manual). Typically a VDO starts measuring this for me once it senses oil pressure, another option is watch time if there is no VDO.
I recommend having a flick through your company ops manual. I may be wrong, but I can't remember reading about this subject anywhere in the regs.
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Yeah we just do the MR wheels off to wheels on. I cant recall anything about logging time on top of MR in the ops manual. I might give someone down at the office in Perth a buzz and see if they can find it. The wheels off to wheels on time usually equals the tacho time anyway, which back in the bad old days of learning to fly at the local aeroclub was all we used to log anyway
M/R time is when the aircraft is not on the ground (by whatever means)
Log book time is from chocks to chocks (clock time)
Always been that way... seems some don't teach these things any more!!
Log book time is from chocks to chocks (clock time)
Always been that way... seems some don't teach these things any more!!
Could be missing out on a lot of 'legally' logged hours if you were only logging M/R time too. Basically the 'timers' on the aircraft are, VDO(oil pressure...IE engine is running, it's turning), Tacho (percentage of engine power)...ie turns slower at idle than full power, and Airswitch which is wheels on/wheels off time. Obviously the the airswitch time is basically what goes on the MR, but your supposing to be logging the time from when the a/c first moves to when it stops under it's own power. In the absense of a VDO, watch time.
Bush strip to another bush strip may equal airswitch + .1 each landing, but I remember having a airswitch of about .8 for a VDO of 1.4 on a few occasions on say a AF-CG-AF trip with some holding on the ground at both ends with a long taxi, again using the .1 a landing you'd only be logging 1 hour.
Again if your at the stage of your career where you don't care about the hours I know of people that don't even put some flights in their logbook!
Here is the definition from the CASA website
Flight Time
means, in the case of a heavier-than-air aircraft, the total time from when the aircraft first moves under its own power for the purpose of taking-off until the moment at which it comes to rest after landing. This is synonymous with 'chock to chock', 'block to block' or 'push back to block' time.
In the case of a helicopter, whenever helicopter rotors are engaged for the purpose of a flight, the time will be included in the flight time.
Bush strip to another bush strip may equal airswitch + .1 each landing, but I remember having a airswitch of about .8 for a VDO of 1.4 on a few occasions on say a AF-CG-AF trip with some holding on the ground at both ends with a long taxi, again using the .1 a landing you'd only be logging 1 hour.
Again if your at the stage of your career where you don't care about the hours I know of people that don't even put some flights in their logbook!
Here is the definition from the CASA website
Flight Time
means, in the case of a heavier-than-air aircraft, the total time from when the aircraft first moves under its own power for the purpose of taking-off until the moment at which it comes to rest after landing. This is synonymous with 'chock to chock', 'block to block' or 'push back to block' time.
In the case of a helicopter, whenever helicopter rotors are engaged for the purpose of a flight, the time will be included in the flight time.
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Thanks puff, I guess I better add .1 for the flight, keep the powers that be happy, and when in doubt round down, im more interested in keeping the logbook time down than up
After all, if I run out of hours, I cant go to work, and if i cant go to work, I cant make $$$
After all, if I run out of hours, I cant go to work, and if i cant go to work, I cant make $$$
69,
Be careful...
Could be seen as fudging flight times to stay under CAO 48 (max flight times).
Better to use watch time engine start to shutdown. (Depends how keen the FOI is to award blueys on the next ops inspection, but then again we all know they're here to help...)
Up or down???
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Be careful...
Could be seen as fudging flight times to stay under CAO 48 (max flight times).
Better to use watch time engine start to shutdown. (Depends how keen the FOI is to award blueys on the next ops inspection, but then again we all know they're here to help...
)Up or down???
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Aileron, if you're running out of flight hours, that suggests to me that you're up around the 90hr a month mark. Now if you're on a casual wage (I highly doubt it with those hours), then you're making a HEAP of money. So missing 1-2 days isn't going to send you broke.
If you're on a full time salary, then your operator needs some serious looking at, if they're going to dock your pay for you taking a fatigue day.
morno
If you're on a full time salary, then your operator needs some serious looking at, if they're going to dock your pay for you taking a fatigue day.
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Ya don't need to be a pile-a-lot to start an aeroplane and taxi it about!
Ya do need to be a pile-a-lot to fly it though.
Therefore log wheels off to wheels on - and stop kidding yourself!
Rat
Ya do need to be a pile-a-lot to fly it though.
Therefore log wheels off to wheels on - and stop kidding yourself!
Rat
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Na its all good Morno, I get paid very nicely. Its a day-based thing so more days on the job = more $$ and im a money grubbing bugger from waaay back
(read: wife and kids cost too much to run) We're on the 100 hrs a month exemption, just investigating the possibility of getting the 120 a month, 1200 a year one at this stage.
Just curious tho, say you do happen to run an hour or 2 over the monthly maximum, what do u do then? I know there are certain conditions with with duty time you can do it but whats the go with flight time? Do u just have to take a couple of extra days off or whats the go?
(read: wife and kids cost too much to run) We're on the 100 hrs a month exemption, just investigating the possibility of getting the 120 a month, 1200 a year one at this stage.Just curious tho, say you do happen to run an hour or 2 over the monthly maximum, what do u do then? I know there are certain conditions with with duty time you can do it but whats the go with flight time? Do u just have to take a couple of extra days off or whats the go?
As always the answer is perfectly clear and contained in CAO 48.0 definitions.
"Flight Time means the total time from the moment when the aircraft first moves under its own power for the purpose of taking off until the moment it comes to rest at the end of the flight."
"Flight Time means the total time from the moment when the aircraft first moves under its own power for the purpose of taking off until the moment it comes to rest at the end of the flight."
Rat, you DO need to be a pilot to taxi an aeroplane with the intention of flying it. Just log what you're supposed to, block time. Then if your company gets audited and someone has a look through your flight and duty times they're not going to start asking why you're not logging the whole flight.
There used to be a company in NZ that did it all backwards. Timed from off blocks to on blocks and took 0.3 off to arrive at an MR time. Problem was they were doing short sectors and sometimes the resulting "flight time" suggested that they were flying F/A-18s when they weren't.
There used to be a company in NZ that did it all backwards. Timed from off blocks to on blocks and took 0.3 off to arrive at an MR time. Problem was they were doing short sectors and sometimes the resulting "flight time" suggested that they were flying F/A-18s when they weren't.
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That sounds like a Hughes 300 I know of that had blade failure. After going through all the logbooks and flight records CAA found that this particular '300 was able to average 135 knots getting around the countryside with spray gear on!!
