Turning Nodes
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Turning Nodes
Ok here's a simple question & open for debate, opinions welcome just so yr not shot on site by the Mods!
If yr presented with a turning node at the end of a rwy which is to one side (usually the case both left or right)of the strip then do you turn into it or away from it initially whilst conducting a 180 deg turn?
I've seen pilots both pro's & amateurs go either way. I know which way I believe to be the safest but will be keen to hear others reasonings.
F
If yr presented with a turning node at the end of a rwy which is to one side (usually the case both left or right)of the strip then do you turn into it or away from it initially whilst conducting a 180 deg turn?
I've seen pilots both pro's & amateurs go either way. I know which way I believe to be the safest but will be keen to hear others reasonings.
F
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Personally I'd turn into it first - should allow you to do your 180 and arrive pretty much on centreline. If you initially turn across the runway, you end up coming out of your 180 off centreline, and then have to move forward to line yourself up. No real use having that perfectly good runway behind you...
TT
TT
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'TT' well said that's exactly the reason as to why I too turn into the node & the fact that you can see (assuming yr in CMD fm the L/H seat) where the edge is should all of the space be required.
F
F
Seems to me that it would depend on the aircraft type.
Piper Cub - wouldn't matter - piroette on the spot.
B737/A320 - I figure you should turn into the node initially as you would have a better idea of where your nose wheel was tracking.
Dr
Piper Cub - wouldn't matter - piroette on the spot.
B737/A320 - I figure you should turn into the node initially as you would have a better idea of where your nose wheel was tracking.
Dr
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A number of things to consider...
Which side is the turning node on?
What is the circuit direction (for uncontrolled airports)?
Which side is the operating pilot sitting on?
One, if not all of these factors may affect your decision, but when in doubt, FOLLOW THE LINES! Because this will at least ensure you have clearance...
Which side is the turning node on?
What is the circuit direction (for uncontrolled airports)?
Which side is the operating pilot sitting on?
One, if not all of these factors may affect your decision, but when in doubt, FOLLOW THE LINES! Because this will at least ensure you have clearance...
Most turning nodes are on the left side of the end of the strip as you backtrack to it.
The go is to turn to the RIGHT so that the driver in the left hand seat can easily see the traffic on final, if there is any.
The go is to turn to the RIGHT so that the driver in the left hand seat can easily see the traffic on final, if there is any.
Bottums Up
- Turning node both sides of RWY, usually left turn to line up or reverse direction for back track.
- Turning node one side of RWY only, into node then line up, to maximise RWY TODA and not compromise RTOW. If aim is to reverse direction to backtrack then favour a left turn to minimise adverse nosewheel tyre wear.
Sprucegoose
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Most turning nodes are on the left side of the end of the strip as you backtrack to it.
Sprucegoose
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Because the lines have been painted to accomodate the turning circle of the MAXIMUM sized aircraft able to operate at the aerodorome, so provided you are operating legally you should have no problems!
PS: Wingspan is irrelevant on a turning node, but really important on parking bay lines though!
PS: Wingspan is irrelevant on a turning node, but really important on parking bay lines though!
Not all Turning Nodes are that generous in size.
For a long wheel based aircraft, turning into the node first will achieve very little, as you will not be able to get the main wheels into the node. So you need to use the node as an over run for your turn.
Mains hard up against the edge of the runway (opposite the turning node). The node is then used for the nosewheel, if required.
Yes you will use up some of the runway. But you don't need to be back on the centerline before commencing your takeoff run.
Some aircraft have allowances built into the takeoff charts to cover 180deg turns at the runway end. If not, just add it in yourself!
For a long wheel based aircraft, turning into the node first will achieve very little, as you will not be able to get the main wheels into the node. So you need to use the node as an over run for your turn.
Mains hard up against the edge of the runway (opposite the turning node). The node is then used for the nosewheel, if required.
Yes you will use up some of the runway. But you don't need to be back on the centerline before commencing your takeoff run.
Some aircraft have allowances built into the takeoff charts to cover 180deg turns at the runway end. If not, just add it in yourself!
Bottums Up
Because the lines have been painted to accomodate the turning circle of the MAXIMUM sized aircraft able to operate at the aerodorome, so provided you are operating legally you should have no problems!
Only a small compromise I know but still a compromise.
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Turning Nodes
The oldies here will recall that once upon a time a thing called airmanship was taught and part of that was that you always turned into the circuit direction when turning at the end of the runway (so you can view the circuit and final approach area) at Non-Tower Airports.
It was not surprising for me to find out some years back that this fact (circuit direction) is not including in the CASA documents used by the folk that design airports and nodes etc. So there are in fact a number of nodes around the place that are, for this reason, on the wrong side of the runway, if you follow the line and enter the node first (as it is intended).
It was not surprising for me to find out some years back that this fact (circuit direction) is not including in the CASA documents used by the folk that design airports and nodes etc. So there are in fact a number of nodes around the place that are, for this reason, on the wrong side of the runway, if you follow the line and enter the node first (as it is intended).
Sprucegoose
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Thanks Clarrie, of course one does need to know what line up allowance ones RTOW is predicated on!
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I generally use the wind direction as much as possible to determine turning direction at the end of runways. Turn into the wind, which helps the aircraft "swing" around therefore less power is required to help one "pull" through the turn. When turning into the wind it also blows any debris away from the engine/prop. If you turned out of wind all of the dust can be blown back onto the aircraft. If the wind is directly down the runway or calm I use the direction which gives the most room.
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Another consideration is your turning checks (bat left ball right, AH steady etc) so if I've turned right to enter the runway I'll turn left to line up regardless of the node. If checks completed prior then turning into the node makes much more sense to me.
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Having watched more than one or two largish type aircraft (B747, B777, B767, KC10, C17, C145, C5) using the turning nodes at YBAS (they are on the left hand side) the majority have turned anti-clockwise with just the nosewheel using the node with the aircraft virtually pivoting on its left main undercarriage. Using this method they all appeared to be able to line up using very little of the runway to get everything pointed the right way.
The exceptions were, I think, some C17s which have quite an amazing turning circle.
The exceptions were, I think, some C17s which have quite an amazing turning circle.
