Would you recommend your children to learn to fly?
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Would you recommend your children to learn to fly?
This industry is f****** the QF, JQ, VB CEO's of this world have distroyed aviation. These moron's need to realise aeroplanes can't fly themselve's. Have a structed career path. That way you will stop the bleeding of quality Pilot's to other organisations that offer more opportunities. Pilot's are relatively conservative people subsequently they would stay with the one outfit for life. But companies think of the almighty buck, save $5 bucks on not letting this pilot TFR to big bro, he ends up leaving and going to an organisation that will give him/her opportunities.. So the stupid CEO's and accountants loose out anyway. In my time working at one of the regionals we lost hundred's of pilot's because there was no future staying on a TURBO PROP for 30 to 40 years................... F***********wakeup CEO's everywhere.
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Would I recommend that my children learn to fly - "professionally"
Yes!
I've loved it.
I've left the sh*t jobs (which includes too long in a good job) and moved with my family. ie. If I'm not smiling when I come home from work - time to move on.
The family doesn't stop me from wanting to go to work, but nor can the company stop me from wanting to go home. I win.
I get to run away from reality, dice with death (and other transmitable diseases) laugh at idiots (because they are paid more, work harder and think we care) sleep in (because of jet lag and/or hang over) wear gold bars on my shoulders (having sold my house in a morgagee sale), and actually get the phone number of the stewart/hostee working in the centre galley.
I've never worked for a living - why should my kids!
I've loved it.
I've left the sh*t jobs (which includes too long in a good job) and moved with my family. ie. If I'm not smiling when I come home from work - time to move on.
The family doesn't stop me from wanting to go to work, but nor can the company stop me from wanting to go home. I win.
I get to run away from reality, dice with death (and other transmitable diseases) laugh at idiots (because they are paid more, work harder and think we care) sleep in (because of jet lag and/or hang over) wear gold bars on my shoulders (having sold my house in a morgagee sale), and actually get the phone number of the stewart/hostee working in the centre galley.
I've never worked for a living - why should my kids!
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oldsmithy......good question mate.....have 2 teenagers 17 and 19.....have never told them not to pursue this profession,but have never really pushed it ...they can both fly,the older has a ppl.....
....but they have seen the life I have lived....they dont care for it.... they listen to what I talk about ......and I dont sugar-coat things,but I try not to subject them to the dirt of this industry either,...but it would (as they are older and can understand) my failing to also not inform them of the cr@p that goes on in this industry... ..and I do subject them to the good of the industry...
they prefer the private stuff as opposed to the "life of a commercial pilot"....plus their mother doesnt help either.....she,s had to put up with the brunt of it,and Ive been told where to go on more than a 1000 occassions!!!
....they are old enough to judge for themselves....dont think I would have done any different,but one thing is for sure....its a bloody tough life at times
....but they have seen the life I have lived....they dont care for it.... they listen to what I talk about ......and I dont sugar-coat things,but I try not to subject them to the dirt of this industry either,...but it would (as they are older and can understand) my failing to also not inform them of the cr@p that goes on in this industry... ..and I do subject them to the good of the industry...
they prefer the private stuff as opposed to the "life of a commercial pilot"....plus their mother doesnt help either.....she,s had to put up with the brunt of it,and Ive been told where to go on more than a 1000 occassions!!!
....they are old enough to judge for themselves....dont think I would have done any different,but one thing is for sure....its a bloody tough life at times
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My dad encourages it...
I'm 22, and a pilot, my step brother, step sister and older brother are also pilots. My younger sister is starting training soon also! When I was choosing whether to do aviation or languages Dad simply said that by doing flying first I would have the time, money and travel experience to do language in my spare time anyways once I'm established in the industry. He also said that he has never not wanted to go to work. Thats good enough for me!!!
He does acknowlege there have been some almighty oversights recently, but still is one of the better careers you can choose.
No real points of argument, just my 2 cents.
He does acknowlege there have been some almighty oversights recently, but still is one of the better careers you can choose.
No real points of argument, just my 2 cents.
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Id recommend flying to anyone. Because while airlines might be nice, I seem to meet plenty of people that fly them that are fed up with the whole industry. There are just so many different types of flying you can do, travelling to some of the most amazing places in the world u would never get to otherwise see, just a few examples being Antarctica, The South American Jungles, Africa, Russia, Southeast asia, you name it!!
Sure, I'd recommend it to anyone who wants to fly (I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who's just looking for a glamour job.) I enjoyed my training, I've enjoyed my two previous flying jobs, I enjoy my current job, and I get paid a satisfactory salary that supports my family. I have never flown RPT or even charter so I can't comment on the A to B stuff.
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Would I recommend my children to learn to fly? YES absolutely, but not commercially!
That side of flying has no respect from those that employ us or nor does it have glamour anymore. It was once a proud industry, an industry that small boys would try to aspire too but now it's full of bitterness & hatred from within.
CW
That side of flying has no respect from those that employ us or nor does it have glamour anymore. It was once a proud industry, an industry that small boys would try to aspire too but now it's full of bitterness & hatred from within.
CW
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Senor Capitan Wal,
I wouldn't get your kids too excited about non-commercial GA either. With the rarest of exceptions, it is a complete disaster. Just have a look at the sales of light GA aircraft world-wide and compare them to the relatively small number sold in Australia in the past 10 years...
Do you really want to commit your kids to shelling out thousands to fly around in a 20-30+ year-old heap in a condition that would raise eyebrows during an RTA vehicle inspection? To a training program with instructors who are often rude, barely competent and can't wait to get a job somewhere else? Under a regulator more interested in grand-standing press releases, newspaper-column-inches and ducking its responsibilities, than promoting (or even supporting) the activity on which it feeds? Dealing with a set of governing legislation that rivals the tax law in its complexity and can't be filed, even in its most basic form, in anything less than 3x 4" A4 binders? Whose administrators apparently have nothing else to do but perpetually dream up additions to this mess and continue a charade of regulatory reform that has gone on 10, 15, 20 or more years with no worthwhile result? That wonders why no-one wants to be a LAME any more? That wastes money it bleeds from industry, in courtroom arguments with the ATSB, to avoid being held responsible for anything?
To pay (or contribute to) inflated rent to the privatised mega-corp metro airport operators, who would rather your kids weren't there anyway? In an environment where vindictive behaviour among participants and exploiting the little guy is laudable?
To have to cope with 20+ knot crosswinds because a dimwit federal minister, (who is probably incapable of landing anything, even a tadpole with a large vegemite jar), decided it would be perfectly OK to close the only cross-strip in the whole Sydney area with any future, having sold off the other metro airport to land developers?
To routinely and courteously give priority to airline operations whilst they faithlessly manoeuvre in Canberra to all but eliminate you from any airspace they might ever want to use? Who cry poor and cancel services in the name of a self-induced pilot shortage whilst reporting millions in profits?
To pay (or contribute to) inflated prices for aircraft parts because the market is now so tiny that near-monopoly conditions rule?
To spend hours waiting at regional airports, when other aircraft also need fuel, so you can all be ripped-off with multiple opening fees? To visit regional airports near major tourist attractions where there are more airport security officers than pilots, apparently dedicated to making your day as difficult as possible?
So that you can fly into a particular airport, but not walk back to your plane after a bathroom stop on the ground without phone calls and fuss (even with an ASIC), because the airport operator won't trust you with the combination for a gate that's mostly used by their mowing contractor?
I could go on, but I'm sure you get the drift.
Do your kids a favour. Take them sailing or hiking and to the cricket and football as much as you can - but nowhere near an airport.
OTD.
I wouldn't get your kids too excited about non-commercial GA either. With the rarest of exceptions, it is a complete disaster. Just have a look at the sales of light GA aircraft world-wide and compare them to the relatively small number sold in Australia in the past 10 years...
Do you really want to commit your kids to shelling out thousands to fly around in a 20-30+ year-old heap in a condition that would raise eyebrows during an RTA vehicle inspection? To a training program with instructors who are often rude, barely competent and can't wait to get a job somewhere else? Under a regulator more interested in grand-standing press releases, newspaper-column-inches and ducking its responsibilities, than promoting (or even supporting) the activity on which it feeds? Dealing with a set of governing legislation that rivals the tax law in its complexity and can't be filed, even in its most basic form, in anything less than 3x 4" A4 binders? Whose administrators apparently have nothing else to do but perpetually dream up additions to this mess and continue a charade of regulatory reform that has gone on 10, 15, 20 or more years with no worthwhile result? That wonders why no-one wants to be a LAME any more? That wastes money it bleeds from industry, in courtroom arguments with the ATSB, to avoid being held responsible for anything?
To pay (or contribute to) inflated rent to the privatised mega-corp metro airport operators, who would rather your kids weren't there anyway? In an environment where vindictive behaviour among participants and exploiting the little guy is laudable?
To have to cope with 20+ knot crosswinds because a dimwit federal minister, (who is probably incapable of landing anything, even a tadpole with a large vegemite jar), decided it would be perfectly OK to close the only cross-strip in the whole Sydney area with any future, having sold off the other metro airport to land developers?
To routinely and courteously give priority to airline operations whilst they faithlessly manoeuvre in Canberra to all but eliminate you from any airspace they might ever want to use? Who cry poor and cancel services in the name of a self-induced pilot shortage whilst reporting millions in profits?
To pay (or contribute to) inflated prices for aircraft parts because the market is now so tiny that near-monopoly conditions rule?
To spend hours waiting at regional airports, when other aircraft also need fuel, so you can all be ripped-off with multiple opening fees? To visit regional airports near major tourist attractions where there are more airport security officers than pilots, apparently dedicated to making your day as difficult as possible?
So that you can fly into a particular airport, but not walk back to your plane after a bathroom stop on the ground without phone calls and fuss (even with an ASIC), because the airport operator won't trust you with the combination for a gate that's mostly used by their mowing contractor?
I could go on, but I'm sure you get the drift.
Do your kids a favour. Take them sailing or hiking and to the cricket and football as much as you can - but nowhere near an airport.
OTD.
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OTD - a very clear a picture indeed
I still remember my first experience as a whipper snapper - sticking my nose through the fence to watch the arrival and departure of an East West F27 at Parkes, along with all the other bugsmashers buzzing around that day - and had to be dragged away by my Dad kicking and screaming - the bug had bitten me.
Now when my 7 year old showed the same interest as I did, we both get the evil hairy eyeball stare from the airport goon who now spends his time reliving a black and white scene out of an old western movie, weighed down by oversized sunglasses and undersized intelligence, wandering around derelict hangers still showing the faint but long faded names of aviation icons, nervously twitching at the aching sound of a swinging door struggling to stay on its last remaining hinge at a flying school still advertising the next club meeting for easter 1998, whilst continuing his purposeful journey harassing rolly pollies as they make their dusty trek across the empty tarmac towards the empty grass fields once shining with mr cessna, beech and pipers but now only another spot for the crows to show off their attitude.....
I still remember my first experience as a whipper snapper - sticking my nose through the fence to watch the arrival and departure of an East West F27 at Parkes, along with all the other bugsmashers buzzing around that day - and had to be dragged away by my Dad kicking and screaming - the bug had bitten me.
Now when my 7 year old showed the same interest as I did, we both get the evil hairy eyeball stare from the airport goon who now spends his time reliving a black and white scene out of an old western movie, weighed down by oversized sunglasses and undersized intelligence, wandering around derelict hangers still showing the faint but long faded names of aviation icons, nervously twitching at the aching sound of a swinging door struggling to stay on its last remaining hinge at a flying school still advertising the next club meeting for easter 1998, whilst continuing his purposeful journey harassing rolly pollies as they make their dusty trek across the empty tarmac towards the empty grass fields once shining with mr cessna, beech and pipers but now only another spot for the crows to show off their attitude.....
Last edited by Muffinman; 27th Mar 2008 at 00:46. Reason: off to go and get my english standard tested
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well 'otd' very direct & to the point. & here I was thinking someone will shoot me down for saying what I did!
To fly privately is something that one has to experience for themselves. There's no better feeling (well there is
) than to fly it can't be discribed, just felt!
I do feel however that the love of flying is dieing, not so much on an individual basis but the idea of flying, that love is fading with fewer showing interest. To think that perhaps the youth of today about to consider flying for a career might very well be the last bunch that do it thru love & a simple desire to be free. The future could very well be entirely diff with the world experiencing ever increasing pressure to get 'green', reduce noise & make money above all else!
I am indeed greatful for the fact that I was born at a time where I have pretty much seen or been told it all when it comes to flying & will perhaps see a lot more, I hope !
CW
To fly privately is something that one has to experience for themselves. There's no better feeling (well there is
) than to fly it can't be discribed, just felt!I do feel however that the love of flying is dieing, not so much on an individual basis but the idea of flying, that love is fading with fewer showing interest. To think that perhaps the youth of today about to consider flying for a career might very well be the last bunch that do it thru love & a simple desire to be free. The future could very well be entirely diff with the world experiencing ever increasing pressure to get 'green', reduce noise & make money above all else!
I am indeed greatful for the fact that I was born at a time where I have pretty much seen or been told it all when it comes to flying & will perhaps see a lot more, I hope !
CW
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Well I think its still a worthwhile thing to do, I have encouraged my kids, so far without any real desire.
I think there is no correct answer to the question. I would like to have a go at changing careers however at my age, and with a reasonable career now from an earnings point of view, it would put me at least $500K behind the 8 ball. And thats assuming I could get a Command on A320/B737 in around 10 years, which might not happen or I may fall out along the way for some reason. So its not all that easy to say what should you do!
Becoming a beach bum has some appeal some days
.
J
I think there is no correct answer to the question. I would like to have a go at changing careers however at my age, and with a reasonable career now from an earnings point of view, it would put me at least $500K behind the 8 ball. And thats assuming I could get a Command on A320/B737 in around 10 years, which might not happen or I may fall out along the way for some reason. So its not all that easy to say what should you do!
Becoming a beach bum has some appeal some days
.J
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As a little fella in the early '60s, the bug got me too. You guys, (particularly MM & CW) have made me think a bit more about it.
I too love the FLYING part; the infinite vista of blue sky against the expanse of Australian countryside, or the fascinating inlets and features along the coast, frames a window on the world that can never be matched. Likewise the depth and power of the atmosphere on a let down between ponderous clouds; and the exhilarating feeling that comes at the completion of a flight that's been done "just right" despite sometimes challenging conditions.
Who can match the triumph of a runway appearing in the middle of the windscreen at the bottom of a trying approach; or the incredible beauty of the Ningaloo Reef at 2000 feet; or feeling the pressure of your seat when climbing out lightly loaded on a smooth morning; or just the warmth of the smiling face that says "thanks, that was a really wonderful flight" at the end of a magic day?
In fact, even on your own, on an ordinary old day, just droning along over plainer terrain, you can still feel on top of the world in a way that the land-bound and jet-SLF will never know.
These days, my life seems to revolve around cycles of apprehension as to what I'll do when my aviating days are over: when it is no longer economically viable to continue flying for our business or when other factors bring it to a sooner conclusion. Sadly, for the myriad of reasons alluded to in my earlier post, that day seems to be getting closer all the time.
The question, however, wasn't about us, but our kids. My 19 yo son has had a few lessons; but other things have higher priority for him, despite the fact that he loves the sky too. Our daughter, just 18, has not the slightest bit of interest at all.
They see my frustration with the circus that GA has become and in many ways perhaps have built up a resistance to the aviation bug that I caught at a much younger age. I despair at the mess the government, the regulator and others have created, but in many other ways I see that we, the aviation community, have done much of it to ourselves. Pointless squabbles and divisions, grubby facilities, irresponsible and aggressive behaviour, self-serving representatives in our associations and our own unwillingness to put in the time and energy to promote aviation has led us here.
So, on reflection, whilst I couldn't RECOMMEND that they learn to fly; I'll do anything to support them if they chose!
But what will it be like for them?
Fly safe everyone.
OTD.
I too love the FLYING part; the infinite vista of blue sky against the expanse of Australian countryside, or the fascinating inlets and features along the coast, frames a window on the world that can never be matched. Likewise the depth and power of the atmosphere on a let down between ponderous clouds; and the exhilarating feeling that comes at the completion of a flight that's been done "just right" despite sometimes challenging conditions.
Who can match the triumph of a runway appearing in the middle of the windscreen at the bottom of a trying approach; or the incredible beauty of the Ningaloo Reef at 2000 feet; or feeling the pressure of your seat when climbing out lightly loaded on a smooth morning; or just the warmth of the smiling face that says "thanks, that was a really wonderful flight" at the end of a magic day?
In fact, even on your own, on an ordinary old day, just droning along over plainer terrain, you can still feel on top of the world in a way that the land-bound and jet-SLF will never know.
These days, my life seems to revolve around cycles of apprehension as to what I'll do when my aviating days are over: when it is no longer economically viable to continue flying for our business or when other factors bring it to a sooner conclusion. Sadly, for the myriad of reasons alluded to in my earlier post, that day seems to be getting closer all the time.
The question, however, wasn't about us, but our kids. My 19 yo son has had a few lessons; but other things have higher priority for him, despite the fact that he loves the sky too. Our daughter, just 18, has not the slightest bit of interest at all.
They see my frustration with the circus that GA has become and in many ways perhaps have built up a resistance to the aviation bug that I caught at a much younger age. I despair at the mess the government, the regulator and others have created, but in many other ways I see that we, the aviation community, have done much of it to ourselves. Pointless squabbles and divisions, grubby facilities, irresponsible and aggressive behaviour, self-serving representatives in our associations and our own unwillingness to put in the time and energy to promote aviation has led us here.
So, on reflection, whilst I couldn't RECOMMEND that they learn to fly; I'll do anything to support them if they chose!
But what will it be like for them?
Fly safe everyone.
OTD.
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yes!!!
Yes
encourage them to fly if they show the slightest interest.
Getting a RAA certificate gets them to share in the sheer pleasure and fulfillment of being able to fly.
and
very importantly
there are a few young people who I know who could legally fly before they could legally drive.
From that experience and discipline they moved on to be much safer drivers AND they acquired a special identity within their peer group.
THEY could fly, they were special, they did not have to drink more, break more, or do anything else more to legitimise themselves within their group. Consequently they had a better start than many do on the road to becoming responsible productive citizens.
Whether they go on to fly commercially or not is a decision that they can make in the fullness of their own time.
But learning to fly at the most basic, most enjoyable, most economical ultralight level equipped them to be in the best position to make those decisions.
my thoughts
Davidh
encourage them to fly if they show the slightest interest.
Getting a RAA certificate gets them to share in the sheer pleasure and fulfillment of being able to fly.
and
very importantly
there are a few young people who I know who could legally fly before they could legally drive.
From that experience and discipline they moved on to be much safer drivers AND they acquired a special identity within their peer group.
THEY could fly, they were special, they did not have to drink more, break more, or do anything else more to legitimise themselves within their group. Consequently they had a better start than many do on the road to becoming responsible productive citizens.
Whether they go on to fly commercially or not is a decision that they can make in the fullness of their own time.
But learning to fly at the most basic, most enjoyable, most economical ultralight level equipped them to be in the best position to make those decisions.
my thoughts
Davidh
Moderator
Would you recommend your children to learn to fly?
My airline pilot son recons it's infinitely easier and pays far better than the brikkies labourer job he had whilst completing his CPL!
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Absolutely not!!!
If they are not fabulously rich musicians/actors/inventors by their 15th birthday they have not been practicing enough and will be beaten until their morale improves.
There is only room in my house for one pilot and that's me. Who can afford 2?
If they are not fabulously rich musicians/actors/inventors by their 15th birthday they have not been practicing enough and will be beaten until their morale improves.
There is only room in my house for one pilot and that's me. Who can afford 2?
Seasonally Adjusted
Onthedials and Muffinman, you sum up GA so eloquently.
Yes I would, but I would hope they are interested for the right reasons.
There are too many out there whose only motivation is the perceived status symbols of striding through airport terminals covered in gold bars and pushing a button on the flight deck to summons a subservient FA forward with coffee.
This is not a dig at Jet Jocks, just the young 'guns' who look up to them for all the wrong reasons.
Yes I would, but I would hope they are interested for the right reasons.
There are too many out there whose only motivation is the perceived status symbols of striding through airport terminals covered in gold bars and pushing a button on the flight deck to summons a subservient FA forward with coffee.
This is not a dig at Jet Jocks, just the young 'guns' who look up to them for all the wrong reasons.
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I have seen it in my 20 years of aviation as every year goes by kids less interested in aeroplanes and flying and more interested in the night club life.
Last edited by Green gorilla; 30th Mar 2008 at 01:36.