Qantas Engineering Duty travel >>>> Economy only, what the!!!
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Qantas Engineering Duty travel >>>> Economy only, what the!!!
Sometimes I just don't get our managers. They have pulled off all the ACS BBJ engineers from the next upcomming trip because they won't give them Business class tickets. EBA5 entitles us to it so what's the 
problem. The thing I don't get is that they recover the cost from the RAAF so it doesn’t cost them anything. Further more ACS are missing out on making some major $$$$ and giving it out to the QDS scabs. Glad the ALAEA has stepped up to the mark and given it to them. See what happens now. The circle of stupidity continues.....
problem. The thing I don't get is that they recover the cost from the RAAF so it doesn’t cost them anything. Further more ACS are missing out on making some major $$$$ and giving it out to the QDS scabs. Glad the ALAEA has stepped up to the mark and given it to them. See what happens now. The circle of stupidity continues.....
Last edited by JETTRONIC; 23rd Mar 2008 at 07:28. Reason: edit sentance
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Yep, I know. But now they’re saying that J class only on Qantas and the rest is eco. We've all said were not going (ACS) but now it looks like we may have lost the contract and QDS have taken it over. ie no more traveling on the BBJ and possibly the job certainty of a few dude's in CBR. Have you folks hear any diff. The circle of stupidity continues.....
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Jettronic
The problem is a reduced profit margin on our "labour". QF bills the RAAF a business class seat regardless of what class the LAME travels in. Greed, pure and simple. It's a contract worth $10 million per year, and they want to wring even more out of it.
That's a bit unfair calling the QDS LAMEs scabs. The QDS LAMEs are not on the same award as QE LAMEs. In fact, the old ALAEA exec negotiated their EBA for them.
But it's very fair to once again highlight the short-sightedness of QE management for cost-cutting a dollar for the sake of claiming to have saved a buck, rather than spending a buck to make two. It's a new and interesting way to shrink the business rather than grow it.
PAF
And shall we bus them to Washington? Bucharest? Brussels? London? Beijing? The working rate is, while we're on shift - then it's whatever our shift is. If we're rostered off, then the rate is double-time.
There is that much waste and fat in defence he'll find it easily. Let's put "$10 billion in savings over 10 years" in context. There was a bi-partisan commitment to increase defence spending to 1.9% of GDP (or a 3% increase in real terms) per year for the next 10 years. In a trillion dollar (and growing) economy, that's 19 billion plus per year extra going into Defence. And all Defence need to do is save $500 million a year.
Now, being typical pollies, you will not drag KRudd and his cronies snouts from the trough without a squeal and a spray of ****. I think the BBJ is safe from said cuts. The BBJ flies, and it needs to be fixed by someone. QDS, without a further expansion, cannot cope with the workload, leaving the overflow to QF Engineering. Unless QE management are so incompetent as to lose the contract, thus precipitating manpower cuts at CBR, who would then (maybe) seek a job at QDS, if Virgin weren't employing.
What the F**K are you talking about?
Flying in J-class is enshrined in our EBA. It's established practice for decades. PAF, you have something called terms and conditions don't you? Would you willingly just give them away with not a whimper?
Why on earth would QF put LAMEs on a competitor's aircraft? Pay a fully marked up Y-class fare or put a bum on an otherwise (frequently) empty QF seat? No choice there. I know, PAF: perhaps you should join QE management. You'll fit right in.
Not sure what you're on about here, but Defence and Parliament buy in bulk and get a good rate. Need they get further lurks in the form of FF points? LAMEs also do not earn FF points for duty travel.
If this is the thin end of the wedge, then we'll see LAMEs flying to God-knows-where in a cramped and uncomfortable seat, getting off the aircraft and being expected to perform critical maintenance like an engine change while fatigued, then turn around and fly home again in another cramped and uncomfortable seat with minimal or no rest.
Why not?
Thank God we're in a union. Once agin, our T & C's are enshrined in the EBA. They get free dental, housing, uniforms, travel and the opportunity to blow sh*t up and kill people in new and interesting places, which we don't get. It's swings and roundabouts.
The fact remains that we work for QF, not the Govmint. QF and the RAAF signed a legally binding contract. The RAAF gets best quality routine maintenance at a fixed rate and QF, as is their right, makes a healthy margin. Management's bleating is motivated by the desire to increase the margin. Don't blame the loss of the BBJ contract on the LAMEs sticking up for their T & C's, but QE management bleating as if their throats had been cut. Now they've killed the goose that laid the golden egg.
PAF, once again you've displayed your ignorance. Until you have something relevant, intelligible, or even intelligent to contribute, keep yer trap shut.
EBA5 entitles us to it so what's the problem. The thing I don't get is that they recover the cost from the RAAF so it doesn’t cost them anything.
problem. The thing I don't get is that they recover the cost from the RAAF so it doesn’t cost them anything.
Further more ACS are missing out on making some major $$$$ and giving it out to the QDS scabs.
But it's very fair to once again highlight the short-sightedness of QE management for cost-cutting a dollar for the sake of claiming to have saved a buck, rather than spending a buck to make two. It's a new and interesting way to shrink the business rather than grow it.
PAF
Wouldn't it be cheaper to bus the guys from Sydney paying them the working rate?
Kevin has asked for 5% cuts to Defence spending - focusing on contracts and APS staff.
Now, being typical pollies, you will not drag KRudd and his cronies snouts from the trough without a squeal and a spray of ****. I think the BBJ is safe from said cuts. The BBJ flies, and it needs to be fixed by someone. QDS, without a further expansion, cannot cope with the workload, leaving the overflow to QF Engineering. Unless QE management are so incompetent as to lose the contract, thus precipitating manpower cuts at CBR, who would then (maybe) seek a job at QDS, if Virgin weren't employing.
Welcome to Rudd accounting. The aircraft flies empty my friend (and no flying business on any other aircraft, in fact you should take best fair of the day, even if it's Virgin [if it's billed to the RAAF] or Brindabella in a little prop job) oh and no frequent flying points the public purse paid for that. 0 FF points just like Defence and Parliament.
Flying in J-class is enshrined in our EBA. It's established practice for decades. PAF, you have something called terms and conditions don't you? Would you willingly just give them away with not a whimper?
Why on earth would QF put LAMEs on a competitor's aircraft? Pay a fully marked up Y-class fare or put a bum on an otherwise (frequently) empty QF seat? No choice there. I know, PAF: perhaps you should join QE management. You'll fit right in.
oh and no frequent flying points the public purse paid for that. 0 FF points just like Defence and Parliament.
If this is the thin end of the wedge, then we'll see LAMEs flying to God-knows-where in a cramped and uncomfortable seat, getting off the aircraft and being expected to perform critical maintenance like an engine change while fatigued, then turn around and fly home again in another cramped and uncomfortable seat with minimal or no rest.
Why post it here.
In Government not even a full Colonel (You need to be a General) rides business class.
You aren't working in that case for QF, you are working for Government under contract.
PAF, once again you've displayed your ignorance. Until you have something relevant, intelligible, or even intelligent to contribute, keep yer trap shut.
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"In Government not even a full Colonel (You need to be a General) rides business class."
Were the do you come from...
Last trip I did the RAAF crew were with us up in Biss. and no they weren’t generals one of them was a 19 year old flightee straight out of school. Mate you have no idea what's going on. It's best you keep you comments for a different forum.
It's easy.... It's in our EBA so what's the problem.
QF, sometimes you completely bamboozle me.
Were the
do you come from...Last trip I did the RAAF crew were with us up in Biss. and no they weren’t generals one of them was a 19 year old flightee straight out of school. Mate you have no idea what's going on. It's best you keep you comments for a different forum.
It's easy....
It's in our EBA so what's the problem.QF, sometimes you completely bamboozle me.
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PLEASE don't give in on this guys (and girls I guess now), this J class travel was won for ALL LAMEs decades ago, after a quite nasty dispute which was NOT supported by the ALAEA even, until we won it, THEN they supported us.
Maybe some of you younger people who have always had it are not aware of how it came about?
Prior to this J class positive space travel, all travel was subload and sometimes you would get upgraded.
What the Airlines would do, as happened to me countless times, is even offload a full fare economy class passenger to get you on a flight to a breakdown, but then when you had fixed the Aircraft they would often just leave you there literally, no seat to get back home even on the Aircraft you had fixed.
Eventually enough was enough and all Queensland LAMEs refused to do ANY duty travel unless ALL duty travel was J class positive.
The Airlines agreed to this almost instantly JUST FOR BREAKDOWNS, but refused it for any other travel including relief duties and training etc.
After a quite lively meeting in Brisbane all LAMEs agreed to stick together, this was despite the ALAEA wanting us to accept "the very generous offer from the Companies".
Thankfully everyone stuck together, and despite our own ALAEA being against us, and all sorts of threats from the Companies, like NO training courses etc, the Companies finally had to give in because of travel to breakdowns.
It now no longer affects me personally of course (retired), but PLEASE don't sacrifice this very hard earned J class positive space travel.
Maybe some of you younger people who have always had it are not aware of how it came about?
Prior to this J class positive space travel, all travel was subload and sometimes you would get upgraded.
What the Airlines would do, as happened to me countless times, is even offload a full fare economy class passenger to get you on a flight to a breakdown, but then when you had fixed the Aircraft they would often just leave you there literally, no seat to get back home even on the Aircraft you had fixed.
Eventually enough was enough and all Queensland LAMEs refused to do ANY duty travel unless ALL duty travel was J class positive.
The Airlines agreed to this almost instantly JUST FOR BREAKDOWNS, but refused it for any other travel including relief duties and training etc.
After a quite lively meeting in Brisbane all LAMEs agreed to stick together, this was despite the ALAEA wanting us to accept "the very generous offer from the Companies".
Thankfully everyone stuck together, and despite our own ALAEA being against us, and all sorts of threats from the Companies, like NO training courses etc, the Companies finally had to give in because of travel to breakdowns.
It now no longer affects me personally of course (retired), but PLEASE don't sacrifice this very hard earned J class positive space travel.
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Konehead:
At this point, i am reminded of tennants in glass houses...
PAF, once again you've displayed your ignorance. Until you have something relevant, intelligible, or even intelligent to contribute, keep yer trap shut.
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At this point, i am reminded of tennants in glass houses...
If you refer to me, I am happy for you to correct me here. Just prove to me how, where and when I have been irrelevant, unintelligible or lacking in intelligence.
JETTRONIC,
What is the exact wording in your EBA ?
Sure it does not say something like "Outward and home bound travel shall he at the same priority level, and the standard shall be in accordance with existing procedures pending Qantas rationalisation of duty travel."
Maybe the "Qantas rationalisation of duty travel" has started.
What is the exact wording in your EBA ?
Sure it does not say something like "Outward and home bound travel shall he at the same priority level, and the standard shall be in accordance with existing procedures pending Qantas rationalisation of duty travel."
Maybe the "Qantas rationalisation of duty travel" has started.
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Outcome - Qantas LAMEs all refused to go economy. Qantas advised Govt that they couldn't service their contract and QDS guys went. The ALAEA have advised the Govt. why and have been told that the next time Qf want a favour, they can jam it.
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Outcome - Qantas LAMEs all refused to go economy. Qantas advised Govt that they couldn't service their contract and QDS guys went. The ALAEA have advised the Govt. why and have been told that the next time Qf want a favour, they can jam it.
However IF it is all true, I for one think it is an absolutely disgusting position for the Government to take, particularly a Labor Government.
Kone, I support the issue on here however to correct a common mistake, there is NO free housing for the defence force.
Everyone pays rent for a defence house, however it is at a cheaper market rate. For this you get a choice of three houses (you don't get a choice of which houses you get to chose from!)probably nowhere near where you want to live in your posting locality. Hence a lot of people pay for there own house and don't get this subsidy.
But once again I fully support you the guys standing up for their negotiated working conditions.
Everyone pays rent for a defence house, however it is at a cheaper market rate. For this you get a choice of three houses (you don't get a choice of which houses you get to chose from!)probably nowhere near where you want to live in your posting locality. Hence a lot of people pay for there own house and don't get this subsidy.
But once again I fully support you the guys standing up for their negotiated working conditions.
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ALAEA Fed Sec
I get a warm glow to hear that altruism has even caught on among the ranks of the BBJ LAMEs. Wonders will never cease.
Airsupport
Umm.... why? That's what politics is about. You scratch my back, I scratch yours.
Ozbiggles
I stand corrected! Heavily subsided does not equal free.
I get a warm glow to hear that altruism has even caught on among the ranks of the BBJ LAMEs. Wonders will never cease.
Airsupport
However IF it is all true, I for one think it is an absolutely disgusting position for the Government to take, particularly a Labor Government.
Ozbiggles
I stand corrected! Heavily subsided does not equal free.
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FYI, there still has been no outcome, and we are still at a stalemate. Qantas still refuses to give biss class on other airlines, the ALAEA has told them it's our right as per our EBA. Yet they still don't get it. From what I have been hearing lately though, QF has now come up with a new tactic. There is another big trip coming up but this time they’re not going to ask the guy's in CBR or SYD. Rather than ask the guy's how do all the work on the BBJ (No offence to the others) they are now going to try the other 150 BBJ lame's around the network. Good old QF showing there true colors again, divide and concur.
One thing’s for sure, when the hits the fan and they need us ASAP, for some reason I thinks a lot of us are going to be feeling unwell. 
Or mabee some 2350’s keep going missing. All in all though, combined with everything else QF is trying to screw us with, some have obviously had enough. 1 has resigned and three to follow mabee more.
The circle of stupidity continues
From what I have been hearing lately though, QF has now come up with a new tactic. There is another big trip coming up but this time they’re not going to ask the guy's in CBR or SYD. Rather than ask the guy's how do all the work on the BBJ (No offence to the others) they are now going to try the other 150 BBJ lame's around the network. Good old QF showing there true colors again, divide and concur.One thing’s for sure, when the
hits the fan and they need us ASAP, for some reason I thinks a lot of us are going to be feeling unwell. Or mabee some 2350’s keep going missing. All in all though, combined with everything else QF is trying to screw us with, some have obviously had enough. 1 has resigned and three to follow mabee more. The circle of stupidity continues
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Airsupport
Quote:
However IF it is all true, I for one think it is an absolutely disgusting position for the Government to take, particularly a Labor Government.
Umm.... why? That's what politics is about. You scratch my back, I scratch yours.
Quote:
However IF it is all true, I for one think it is an absolutely disgusting position for the Government to take, particularly a Labor Government.
Umm.... why? That's what politics is about. You scratch my back, I scratch yours.
Had it been the previous Howard Government it would be understandable maybe, would have fitted in with their work choices and union bashing etc, but to come from a new Labor Government that goes on and on about how they are saving the workers and restoring hard won benefits lost under the previous Government, is absolutely disgusting.