Why would anyone apply to fly for Qantas?
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ampan
I hope the future is not as bleak as you make it out to be. I still think pilots need to be on a flight deck for a while yet. You see, the problem with computers is that they don't learn, they need to be programmed so the human brain is far better and becomes better at dealing with various sorts of problems.
Why is it so bad that a few senior pilots have left? It means a few guys move up to command, few up to FOs and heaps up to SOs.
Why is it so bad that a few senior pilots have left? It means a few guys move up to command, few up to FOs and heaps up to SOs.
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Don't forget that Qantas still pays for it's pilots initial endorsement. Virgin and Jetstar will charge you 30-35K for this, not to mention you wont get paid while doing it. Qantas recruits get paid from day 1 so I reckon over the first year or two the Qantas guy will still be ahead.
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Ok I am expecting to be shot down fully due to age and lack of experience. I am here to learn, not teach. But a few points. Firstly, 'find a job you love and you'll never work a day in your life', surely if life was as bad as many make out, you'd leave for a comfier job? Secondly, I'm under the impression that there are plenty of QF pilots approaching retirement age (all the ex RAAFies). So that should make space for a lot of advancement opportunities in the next ten years no? Finally, look at it from the point of view of people on the bottom rung of the ladder such as myself, after x amount of years working towards a seat with a good view in the pointy end of the plane, earning ANYTHING is a bonus!! Not having to pay for your flying alone makes for a very happy 2ndGen!!
And lastly, I'll pre-empt a few of you-YES, it is highly likely I will probably return whinging and moaning in a few years, but for now these are my thoughts.
And lastly, I'll pre-empt a few of you-YES, it is highly likely I will probably return whinging and moaning in a few years, but for now these are my thoughts.
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Good on you 2ndGen. Whilst I will say there is absolutely no such thing as the "perfect" job, for the most part we're not doing too bad as pilot types, are we. Sure there are days when the alarm goes off at 3:30AM and I curse the fact that I have to get out of bed to go pole an aeroplane around the traps, but when most of us have to sacrifice 40 odd years of our lives towards working for a living, there sure are some miserable jobs out there - far worse than what we're contending with.
And yes, you're dead right about the fact that in a few years from now the novelty will have worn off - and you WILL be bitching and moaning about it like the rest of us, but for now bask in your innocence and joy. It is all too brief.
And yes, you're dead right about the fact that in a few years from now the novelty will have worn off - and you WILL be bitching and moaning about it like the rest of us, but for now bask in your innocence and joy. It is all too brief.
ampan said:
You have no idea how ignorant you are ampan!
Flying the aeroplane is probably only about 20% of the job. And of that 20% I reckon the "computer" helps me with about 30% of that!
It' like saying anyone could rock up to a multinational accounting firm and apply for a job because they bought Microsoft Excel with their notebook computer. After all that all accountants do all day, using computers to add up numbers and make pretty graphs for their clients right?
Or perhaps you think all the Captain of a cruise liner has to do is plug in the destination coordinates and order full steam ahead! How hard can that be?
Like I said you have no idea how ignorant you are!
You are, to put it frankly, there to supervise the operation of various computers.
Flying the aeroplane is probably only about 20% of the job. And of that 20% I reckon the "computer" helps me with about 30% of that!
It' like saying anyone could rock up to a multinational accounting firm and apply for a job because they bought Microsoft Excel with their notebook computer. After all that all accountants do all day, using computers to add up numbers and make pretty graphs for their clients right?
Or perhaps you think all the Captain of a cruise liner has to do is plug in the destination coordinates and order full steam ahead! How hard can that be?
Like I said you have no idea how ignorant you are!
In response to Ampan
Dixon earned 6.7 million last year. That's about $130,000 a week, or more in a week and ahalf than a V Australia 777 captain (including the weekend).
Gregg, his deputy pocketed around 4.2 million or $80,000 per week. The list goes on with Borghetti listed at 4.1 mil and even Mr Joyce at 2.7 million. That's only $52,000 per week because he is Low Cost.
Ok - so flying is not that hard. But correct me if I'm wrong - didn't Qantas pilots once earn nearly same as the CEO?
Alright - so you argue that Dixon et al. carry a higher level of risk and therefore deserve the big pay. But who is really at greater risk if they make an error - a 777 Captain, line training a 200 hour F/O to land at night or a Key Manager demanding his chief pilot use the 200 hour F/O to save on wages?
A 777 Captain carries a level of risk for the whole airline. His/her error could result in 300 deaths and bring down the whole airline (even a doctor's mistake only kills one) Management errors are generally clerical. Their strategic mistakes often unfold long after they've retired.
Gregg, his deputy pocketed around 4.2 million or $80,000 per week. The list goes on with Borghetti listed at 4.1 mil and even Mr Joyce at 2.7 million. That's only $52,000 per week because he is Low Cost.
Ok - so flying is not that hard. But correct me if I'm wrong - didn't Qantas pilots once earn nearly same as the CEO?
Alright - so you argue that Dixon et al. carry a higher level of risk and therefore deserve the big pay. But who is really at greater risk if they make an error - a 777 Captain, line training a 200 hour F/O to land at night or a Key Manager demanding his chief pilot use the 200 hour F/O to save on wages?
A 777 Captain carries a level of risk for the whole airline. His/her error could result in 300 deaths and bring down the whole airline (even a doctor's mistake only kills one) Management errors are generally clerical. Their strategic mistakes often unfold long after they've retired.
Last edited by kellykelpie; 4th Mar 2008 at 12:16. Reason: confused
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17 went to other airlines, 17 in a whole year
Can anyone tell me, are many J* guys/girls considering transfer/transferred under Clause 11 of the MOU?
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Qantas' Dixon runs away with another $6+ million -- Pilots get more paycuts
Right on!! That was one of the best written set of observations on this blog ever....
Pilots are (or should be) the backbone of an airline. The Qantas bosses simply enriches themselves by outsourcing, paycuts for pilots, attendants, valet parkers to prop up their bonus packages. Last Friday the Brisbane Times reports that a lack of pilot willing to work for Qantas due to low pay “has forced QantasLink to announce the sudden cancellation of some of its regional services”. QantasLink yesterday announced its "higher than normal pilot attrition rate" would result in the suspension of some services on its NSW and Queensland routes. QantasLink's chief executive, Narendra Kumar, said the airline would suspend six weekly services and scale back on others. The Australian Federation of Air Pilots has warned the airlines are losing experience in the cockpit. "We don't believe that there will be enough experience levels to take up what they are losing on the other side," warned the union's Lawrie Cox. (more at www.qantassucksworld.com/Employees.html)
Pilots are (or should be) the backbone of an airline. The Qantas bosses simply enriches themselves by outsourcing, paycuts for pilots, attendants, valet parkers to prop up their bonus packages. Last Friday the Brisbane Times reports that a lack of pilot willing to work for Qantas due to low pay “has forced QantasLink to announce the sudden cancellation of some of its regional services”. QantasLink yesterday announced its "higher than normal pilot attrition rate" would result in the suspension of some services on its NSW and Queensland routes. QantasLink's chief executive, Narendra Kumar, said the airline would suspend six weekly services and scale back on others. The Australian Federation of Air Pilots has warned the airlines are losing experience in the cockpit. "We don't believe that there will be enough experience levels to take up what they are losing on the other side," warned the union's Lawrie Cox. (more at www.qantassucksworld.com/Employees.html)
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kellykelpie,
The CEO earns significantly more than the Chief Pilot for one reason.........Supply and Demand........there are far less individuals in Australia who are in a position to become the Qantas CEO, than there are to fly the Qantas aeroplanes.
Before this begins a rant on why the average pilot is capable of becoming the CEO of a large company, I'll add this.....
......in my opinion, the biggest factor holding back airline pilot salaries is the seniority system. Without this, we would be free to slide sideways, and even upwards, into slots available within other airlines.............just like the corporate world.
Would Geoff Dixon be paid all that money if, to reach his CEO position, he had to give 30 years of continuous employment, and during that time had no option to move to another company without starting at the bottom again?? Of course not.......the company wouldn't pay him that, because they wouldn't have to!
lmh
The CEO earns significantly more than the Chief Pilot for one reason.........Supply and Demand........there are far less individuals in Australia who are in a position to become the Qantas CEO, than there are to fly the Qantas aeroplanes.
Before this begins a rant on why the average pilot is capable of becoming the CEO of a large company, I'll add this.....
......in my opinion, the biggest factor holding back airline pilot salaries is the seniority system. Without this, we would be free to slide sideways, and even upwards, into slots available within other airlines.............just like the corporate world.
Would Geoff Dixon be paid all that money if, to reach his CEO position, he had to give 30 years of continuous employment, and during that time had no option to move to another company without starting at the bottom again?? Of course not.......the company wouldn't pay him that, because they wouldn't have to!
lmh
Luvmuhud,
I completely agree about seniority holding us back.
The supply/demand bit for CEOs I'm not so sure about. Are you suggesting that if Geoff leaves the job that demand for new CEO will will be much higher than available market supply? Do you think that a CEO deserves over 100 times the average wage?
I completely agree about seniority holding us back.
The supply/demand bit for CEOs I'm not so sure about. Are you suggesting that if Geoff leaves the job that demand for new CEO will will be much higher than available market supply? Do you think that a CEO deserves over 100 times the average wage?
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QF
Well, despite the pros and cons, there are people who used to aspire to a job with Qantas who now, are no longer interested, and have never applied, and most probably never will.
I'm one of these.
520.
I'm one of these.
520.
