Business Jet Ltd.

[Night Flight]

Hi all,

Does anyone know anything about Business Jet Ltd. who advertised for Falcon 900 drivers in NZ on AFAP pages?

I tried a search on the internet with no results.

Any info like conditions, pay, type of work etc. would be appreciated.

Thanks in advnace,

NF

[haughtney1]

Well I sent them an email...just to find out a little more, and was told I was unsuccessful.

I hadn't even applied

[gas-chamber]

I have noticed a trend lately where pilots send emails asking all sorts of questions, before they apply. Expecting chief pilots, consultants etc to take time out to deal with each query. As if that is all they do in a day. Such an approach is almost certain to end up in the reject basket.

Companies are taking a reality check and dropping many arbitrary requirements and sadly are also being forced to accept a generally lower standard. But when I see some of the bone-lazy one-line email applications and questions like "when do I get a command, and when do I become a check captain?", I also think that some of the kids out there need their own reality check.

The way it still works for all but the most desperate (and who wants to work for a desperate?): Company advertises; pilots apply with resumes etc; based on quality of application, company decides who to interview; questions asked by both parties, at which point if each party likes the other a deal is struck.

[doublestrobe]

A bit of a thread drift but gas chamber is absolutely correct. The number of applicants or 'information seekers' that can be completely disregarded in the first round a recruitment process is astounding.

A lot of people have no intention of applying and/or, quite commonly, they're just stirring the pot .

The mentioned items like one liner informal (sometimes smart ass) questioning are met with a raised eyebrow and the delete button , terrible spelling/grammar and resume presentation etc, all the usual stuff. If you're fair dinkum about it take the extra few minutes to tidy everything up and make the first electronic impression count... you'll be in the minority for sure!!!! All the best.

[haughtney1]

I have noticed a trend lately where pilots send emails asking all sorts of questions, before they apply. Expecting chief pilots, consultants etc to take time out to deal with each query. As if that is all they do in a day. Such an approach is almost certain to end up in the reject basket.

Well Gas Chamber, I take it from your rather snippy/slightly arrogant reply, you are perhaps one the aforementioned Chief Pilots..consultants etc....
If that is the case, I put it to you that you are not only missing the point of an inquiry, but you are potentially excluding candidates who are FAR more experienced and savvy than you give them credit for.
In essence, you are creating a false impression of the market place...based on IMHO a rather high-handed opinion of the process.
Far be it for me to tell you (someone) how to do your/their job etc, but what do you expect? A company advertises a position and then feels somewhat put out when a person(s) make an inquiry to clarify a rather vague and possibly misleading advert?
Why should I (as an example) waste my time with a company who are not prepared to answer an inquiry in a professional and timely fashion? the simple answer is I won't.
Therein lies the rub, don't expect everyone to be clamoring over themselves to fire off a C.V. on the basis of what is advertised...because in basic terms..plenty of quality candidates have neither the time nor inclination to do so unless it's worth their while, they recognize that their experience/personal traits/grasp of the spoken word etc..is in demand all over the world, and not as you appear to think, confined to desperately sending a C.V. on the off chance.

Companies are taking a reality check and dropping many arbitrary requirements and sadly are also being forced to accept a generally lower standard. But when I see some of the bone-lazy one-line email applications and questions like "when do I get a command, and when do I become a check captain?", I also think that some of the kids out there need their own reality check.

I disagree, companies (especially GA companies) are lowering requirements because they can neither afford, nor can they attract quality applicants. They find it much easier to bemoan shortages etc, rather than ask the tough searching questions relating to staff retention rates and recruitment.

FWIW, my previous position (with a large UK LCC) had its genesis thanks to a "lazy" email enquiry

[neville_nobody]

Given the hassle and expense of actually attending interviews I don't see what is wrong with a quick email to clarify a point. I for one would be pretty upset if I forked out airfares to attended a job thinking there was (for example) no weekend work only to find out that you work every weekend!

Maybe companies could be a little more specific in their ads to. The days are gone of there being a rumour of a job and 500 applications appear on your desk! If you look at ads for other industries it's all about what the company can do for you. Many HR practices in aviation are absolutely archaic and maybe it's time things started to change.

[gas-chamber]

Getting back to the original post. The advert made it fairly clear what the requirements were and the Company identified itself. This is far better than a PO Box number, which I agree, does not deserve serious application. Meantime, being in the position to do so, I will continue to be arrogant and high-handed and delete applications that I deem not serious. And those that do not enclose requested information. And those that have poor grammar, carefully-disguised lack of time on type, big posey full-page front covers with colour photographs in uniform but no substance inside etc etc. I suspect that I am not alone.....

[haughtney1]

Good one Gas Chamber, its nice to see someone cut off their nose to spite their face.

Meantime, being in the position to do so, I will continue to be arrogant and high-handed and delete applications that I deem not serious.

Goodluck

On the subject of the job, I would imagine Falcon 900 drivers would be a little thin on the ground in Auckland.

[spacepodlife]

asking is legitimate, replying is courtesy

[gas-chamber]

Advertising is also legitimate. Applying with some basic details - name, rank, serial number etc - is optional. Any number of 2000 hour Kiwis will be more than happy to share a flight 'dick' on a Falcon 900 with whoever is in the other seat (not me, by the way).

Make a poor quality initial approach or convey the impression that you are tyre-kicking and it's delete delete regardless of what the applicant perceives as his particular talent. Those of us who influence hiring can not read minds, so all we can go on is the quality of application. I sometimes deal with a dozen a day, and can only set aside an hour for that activity because of other commitments to those who pay me. So where is my obligation to answer every query when I know little or nothing about who is asking the question? Could be the opposition on a fishing expedition for all I know.

A pilot shortage exists for sure, but plum corporate jobs and jobs that offer lifestyle will always attract good applications.

[commander900]

Just to clear up any misunderstanding on this thread "Gas Chamber" has absolutely no affiliation with Business Jet Ltd whatsoever although we respect his views.

We have received a large volume of applications and everyone has or will be read carefully, considered and a polite courteous reponse will follow even to those who deemed it not necessary to supply a copy of their CV!

[Skystar320]

I agree partly with Gas Chamber,

I too have dealt with many companies as a consultant in obtaining pilots for the operation.
Now I stress that this is not my 'core' job and I do this as a favour as the companies I have represented.

On previous occassion's where I needed to find pilots and advertised I had alot of people just dropping me an email requesting more information. Now it was a major EU ACMI carrier and it would be very obvious to who the company is.

Now I took time and effort to reply to nearly 100% of those emails but sometimes its just not enough. Now I'd appreciate most mails I got back was thankyou for reply even though I told them they are unsuccesful!

But most people / pilots these days even when they dont fit the critera think its mandatory to get a reply

What I am saying is that when your a C210 pilot and I am looking for Fokker F50 CAPTAINS........ well you make the pretty picture.

My little rant over...

[gas-chamber]

In case anyone gained the impression that I was connected with the advertiser on this occasion, Commander 900 has put the record straight. However, for better or worse, I am in the business of consulting, and part of that portfolio is advising others with less technical knowledge on how to hire, and who to interview.
If Commander 900 is going to reply to even those time-wasters who sent him one-liners, more credit to him for good manners and courtesy. I am too expensive and too busy to answer unsolicited questions and do anything other than send a 'reject' or 'interview' advice to the client. The client's internal policy would then determine whether they bothered to reply to the rejects. So, dear readers, I will continue to cull the way I have always done, based on the initial impression gained from the quality and clarity of the application. That's my way, and if the clients don't like it, they will cease to use me.
Pprune is a forum for opinions, education and rumour etc, so make what you will of what I have said here. But it is the way it works in a lot of places that hire technical staff - not just pilots.
Heaven forbid, if my attitude costs me clients I may have to take advantage of the pilot shortage and go fly a roster myself again. Even an arrogant high-handed prick like me would get a go, it seems.

[Night Flight]

Back to the topic...

So does anyone know anything about Business Jet Ltd.?

By the way Gas-Chamber I did apply, it included a Cover Letter and a Resume. Yes, I do satisfy all their requirements and yes I am very serious about the position. But should I be luck enough to be offered a position (by Commander900) than before I commit my family to moving to NZ for minimum 3 years I would like to find out as much as I can about the company and the position from others in the industry rather than bother the company about it at this stage.

NF

[cjam]

Gas Chamber,
How hard is it to provide a salary range for successful applicants in the adds? By not doing so you are either encouraging proffessionally established pilots like myself to fire off an email with the question "what is the salary?" or simply not hearing from us at all.
You will be missing out on the best applicants with your attitude and considering that your job involves finding the best applicants for your customers....that makes you less than fully effective at your job.
I know that I won't bother going to the trouble of updating my cv on the one in one hundred chance that the salary will equal or better my current one.
Call it administrative laziness, call it what you want, thats the reality of the market at the moment. My job is to fly jets, your job i suspect is to read the market and provide highly qualified, current and proffesional pilots to companies. I know that as the market changes my job is secure....do you?

[flyitboy]

Ssadly there are a few 'gas-chambers' around & they don't help!
Hhe doesn't realise that the industry has changed, a lot! Gone are the old school ways of thinking, it's a new world out there & he doesn't like it !
To get someone that fit's 'his' ideals doesn't mean a thing, doesn't guarentee anything other than perhaps someone who has little idea also of what's happening out in the real world.
'Com900' was good enough to pass by here seeing as it's all about his Co. for that I thank him. Hopefully he has seen also what really goes on out there these days with pilots simply wanting to know, no more no less.


F