Would you spend $8 - $10k on Weather for your GNS430/530.
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Would you spend $8 - $10k on Weather for your GNS430/530.
Hi,
Just doing a bit of research for a product. Would you consider $8 - $10k for a US Style MX radio Service that can connect to a Garmin GNS430/530 and provide METAR TAF and WEATHER Maps to the cockpit GPS Display.
The Unit would be similar in appearance installation and operation to the GDL69 see https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=201&pID=228
The Unit would only operate on the Australian Mainland and would provide weather data link only (ie no satellite radio for music/programing)
Ongoings after install would be $35 - $45 per month.
Matt.
Just doing a bit of research for a product. Would you consider $8 - $10k for a US Style MX radio Service that can connect to a Garmin GNS430/530 and provide METAR TAF and WEATHER Maps to the cockpit GPS Display.
The Unit would be similar in appearance installation and operation to the GDL69 see https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=201&pID=228
The Unit would only operate on the Australian Mainland and would provide weather data link only (ie no satellite radio for music/programing)
Ongoings after install would be $35 - $45 per month.
Matt.
A storm scope will tell you where weather actually is, as opposed to a guess from the Met man.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the Garmin connects to a satelite feed, as opposed to a met service?
Having said that though, I'm sure there is great value in getting updated WX enroute on a long nav, especially if it's going to save you doing a divert at the last minute when you realise you can't make it to your destination.
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I didn't know Garmins spoke PHP'ian
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the Garmin connects to a satelite feed, as opposed to a met service?
Having said that though, I'm sure there is great value in getting updated WX enroute on a long nav, especially if it's going to save you doing a divert at the last minute when you realise you can't make it to your destination.
[Dig]
I didn't know Garmins spoke PHP'ian
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What price do you put on safety? Anything is worth the extra piece of mind it if you can afford it, simple as that!
My Co. don't even have TCAS available & we fly into populated 'sunday flyer' strips SP !
Sounds like it's a good piece of kit.
F
My Co. don't even have TCAS available & we fly into populated 'sunday flyer' strips SP !
Sounds like it's a good piece of kit.
F
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Sorry I was not to clear. This device does not exist im considering it for development. METAR and TAF would come from the BOM and be exactly the same as the air services ones. Radar information (real weather radar bom sites) and lightning info would also come from BOM's sources in real time via a radio link all displayed on the screen of the GNS-430/530 The menus and systems are already in the GNS430/530 they are just hidden unless you have the MX sat radio card. Which will not work in Australia as we are outside the footprint of the MX sat's.
If you wanted a METAR for YSBK you just dial it up on the 430 and it is displayed on the screen within a few seconds. Weather maps are overlaid on the moving maps.
If you wanted a METAR for YSBK you just dial it up on the 430 and it is displayed on the screen within a few seconds. Weather maps are overlaid on the moving maps.
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With the ability for an out-of-the-box Mobile phone, either Tri-Band / Quad-band, GSM/3G or Next G getting real time rain / weather radar straight from the live BOM rain radar I question the value.
When ADSB gets up and running you'll just plug your ADSB into your internet enabled PDA and have it all there in front of you - weather and traffic, but no lightning, however the red patches might give a clue...
When ADSB gets up and running you'll just plug your ADSB into your internet enabled PDA and have it all there in front of you - weather and traffic, but no lightning, however the red patches might give a clue...
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hey Dr O are you related to the other Dr?, 2 Docs could mean we are being overrun here !
Yr right tho the Bo owning Dr does have a lot of junk up front. Me thinks that he'd be only able to carry 2 others b4 MTOW was achieved !
F
Yr right tho the Bo owning Dr does have a lot of junk up front. Me thinks that he'd be only able to carry 2 others b4 MTOW was achieved !
F
the Bo owning Dr does have a lot of junk up front
(Well! ....... I can pay someone to find out!)
For the record, I have a Motion Computing LS800 tablet computer and a Garmin 296 GPS on the yoke.
The LS800 gives me:
Electronic flight bag - Jeppesen FliteDeck and Fliteview
Moving map and geo-referenced approach plates
Electronic geo-referenced WAC chart, ERCs, VTC, VNC
Flight planning with Champagne 3000
In-flight internet access via G3 connection - Flight plan submission, NAIPS, BOM, Weatherzone, PPRuNe, Skype, VMC Tracker
Matt - I would not pay $8-10k for the sort of service you described. What would it give me that I don't already have?
Dr
PS: Jealousy a curse!
Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 22nd Feb 2008 at 11:20.
Dr Oakenfold/Flyitboy - I guess you guys carry your "junk" (ie paper Jepps/Airservices charts and WACs in a big fancy flightbag, huh?
Dr
Dr
Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 22nd Feb 2008 at 11:21.
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FTDK:
Yea i have a setup like yours. (OQO Ultra Mobile PC) I even have the output of one of my panel mounted GPS's socketed on the panel for it. But the argument here I think is pretty simple. It would be TSO'ed and not balance on your lap with a bunch of cables or worse use bluetooth that may/may not interferer with instruments/compass. I switch of my laptop during an approach for two reasons.
a) It may have unexpected results interacting with the rest of the aircraft avionics.
b) And i think the most important it's a distraction. It's "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate" "Not Aviate, Navigate, Send an email, Skype your Mate, Download Movies with BIttorrent."
Using a standard interface thats excepted in commercial aviation around the world. If a laptop was key here we would see the front of a 747 with only steam driven ASI/HSI and the pilot looking proud as punch with a brand new Sony VAIO.
I guess i forgot the overwhelming factor in Australian Aviation.
90% of Australians in aviation are cheap asses If i have to convince people they need it that's not a good product from a commercial point of view. Looks like it's back to the drawing board.
Yea i have a setup like yours. (OQO Ultra Mobile PC) I even have the output of one of my panel mounted GPS's socketed on the panel for it. But the argument here I think is pretty simple. It would be TSO'ed and not balance on your lap with a bunch of cables or worse use bluetooth that may/may not interferer with instruments/compass. I switch of my laptop during an approach for two reasons.
a) It may have unexpected results interacting with the rest of the aircraft avionics.
b) And i think the most important it's a distraction. It's "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate" "Not Aviate, Navigate, Send an email, Skype your Mate, Download Movies with BIttorrent."
Using a standard interface thats excepted in commercial aviation around the world. If a laptop was key here we would see the front of a 747 with only steam driven ASI/HSI and the pilot looking proud as punch with a brand new Sony VAIO.
I guess i forgot the overwhelming factor in Australian Aviation.
90% of Australians in aviation are cheap asses If i have to convince people they need it that's not a good product from a commercial point of view. Looks like it's back to the drawing board.
Matt, maybe you shouldn't ask the question if you are going to go all howlibag when the answer isn't what you want.
Mine is mounted on the yoke, well away from the mag compass. Don't think there is any evidence that a computer will interfere with other instruments. Even the mag compass is not critical with a TSO'd GPS in the panel. Hard to see TSO'd BOM as a "must have".
Sorry, just can't see that as an issue!
Having a look at a geo-referenced Appr plate during an appr is hardly a distraction.
I am clever, but I haven't yet managed a "this post comes to you from the Middle Marker of the YBTL 01ILS Appr!"
?? Hard to see how this is relevant to the question that YOU asked!
Not in my experience!
You said it!
Work on a cost effective ground station that will give us WAAS - you'll make a fortune.
Dr
PS: That's about $8k of hardware/software.
FTDK: Yea i have a setup like yours. (OQO Ultra Mobile PC) I even have the output of one of my panel mounted GPS's socketed on the panel for it. But the argument here I think is pretty simple. It would be TSO'ed and not balance on your lap with a bunch of cables or worse use bluetooth that may/may not interferer with instruments/compass.
I switch of my laptop during an approach for two reasons.
a) It may have unexpected results interacting with the rest of the aircraft avionics.
a) It may have unexpected results interacting with the rest of the aircraft avionics.
b) And i think the most important it's a distraction. It's "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate" "Not Aviate, Navigate, Send an email, Skype your Mate, Download Movies with BIttorrent."
I am clever, but I haven't yet managed a "this post comes to you from the Middle Marker of the YBTL 01ILS Appr!"
Using a standard interface thats excepted in commercial aviation around the world. If a laptop was key here we would see the front of a 747 with only steam driven ASI/HSI and the pilot looking proud as punch with a brand new Sony VAIO.
I guess i forgot the overwhelming factor in Australian Aviation.
90% of Australians in aviation are cheap asses
90% of Australians in aviation are cheap asses
If i have to convince people they need it that's not a good product from a commercial point of view.
Work on a cost effective ground station that will give us WAAS - you'll make a fortune.
Dr
PS: That's about $8k of hardware/software.
Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 24th Feb 2008 at 11:11.
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FTDK: All good points. That's why i asked the question. Not to piss people of but to get genuine feeling from the aviation community. It's a lot easer to find out nobody wants to buy a product before you spend a million developing it.
Work on a cost effective ground station that will give us WAAS - you'll make a fortune.
Yea if only that was possible. It's effectively a transmitter and super accurate timing source . Not a real big deal. But i bet the regulatory requirements are massive for such a device and with more paperwork comes more cost
.. Not to mention the public liability insurance.
I did have the idea for a hand held weather unit a few years back. I even did a bit of work on it. It was basically just a software flash card for the TomTom Land based Car navigator. A user would get the standard unit and replace the flash card with one they purchased form our company. The new software would provide real time weather TAF/METAR and moving map radar from the bom on the screen of the tom tom (datalink from nextg or gprs via bluetooth) The inbuilt GPS would be used to update position give things like local airports distance as well as show a plate type display with the aircrafts position in an approach. As another bonus the flash card would work like a virtual black box and log the aircrafts position speed and altitude. The TOMTOM hardware also has a 3 axis accelerometer's (G METER) so it could log forces that could all be downloaded after a training flight / hire flight / worst case a non fire resulting incident) My Pack would come with software and a cable to plug the tomtom's audio into the aircrafts intercom so also gear down warnings and alike could be sounded over the headset.
Perhaps i should go back down that road. I was thinking about <$500 for the kit which would include flash card cable and manual. You can pick up an old tomtom on ebay <$300
and a montlly update service which also provide the data link weather at $25 - $45 per month.
I think that's more in the price range of a lot of pilots and the tomtom can also be used to navigate at your destination on the ground by swapping the card back to the street map.
As for your Baron Pic yea you are lucky you have quite a bit of space there. Looks like it would work nicely. There is no way i could do what you are doing in my aircraft (and my laptop is a lot smaller then that tablet you have) Im left with a juggling act unfortunately. I did get a quote for jep flightdeck and mapview once but when i got the quote it was a few thousand. I did not think i would use it enough with the juggling. Perhaps it's gone down I may revisit.
As you can see there would not be a lot of panel left with your tablet sitting up there. Perhaps i should save for a Baron. Hmmmm Baron
Work on a cost effective ground station that will give us WAAS - you'll make a fortune.
Yea if only that was possible. It's effectively a transmitter and super accurate timing source . Not a real big deal. But i bet the regulatory requirements are massive for such a device and with more paperwork comes more cost
.. Not to mention the public liability insurance. I did have the idea for a hand held weather unit a few years back. I even did a bit of work on it. It was basically just a software flash card for the TomTom Land based Car navigator. A user would get the standard unit and replace the flash card with one they purchased form our company. The new software would provide real time weather TAF/METAR and moving map radar from the bom on the screen of the tom tom (datalink from nextg or gprs via bluetooth) The inbuilt GPS would be used to update position give things like local airports distance as well as show a plate type display with the aircrafts position in an approach. As another bonus the flash card would work like a virtual black box and log the aircrafts position speed and altitude. The TOMTOM hardware also has a 3 axis accelerometer's (G METER) so it could log forces that could all be downloaded after a training flight / hire flight / worst case a non fire resulting incident) My Pack would come with software and a cable to plug the tomtom's audio into the aircrafts intercom so also gear down warnings and alike could be sounded over the headset.
Perhaps i should go back down that road. I was thinking about <$500 for the kit which would include flash card cable and manual. You can pick up an old tomtom on ebay <$300
and a montlly update service which also provide the data link weather at $25 - $45 per month.
I think that's more in the price range of a lot of pilots and the tomtom can also be used to navigate at your destination on the ground by swapping the card back to the street map.
As for your Baron Pic yea you are lucky you have quite a bit of space there. Looks like it would work nicely. There is no way i could do what you are doing in my aircraft (and my laptop is a lot smaller then that tablet you have) Im left with a juggling act unfortunately. I did get a quote for jep flightdeck and mapview once but when i got the quote it was a few thousand. I did not think i would use it enough with the juggling. Perhaps it's gone down I may revisit.
As you can see there would not be a lot of panel left with your tablet sitting up there. Perhaps i should save for a Baron. Hmmmm Baron
As you can see there would not be a lot of panel left with your tablet sitting up there.
Stick it on a RAM floor mount!
Dr
Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 25th Feb 2008 at 02:01.
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The Unit would only operate on the Australian Mainland and would provide weather data link only (ie no satellite radio for music/programing)
VERDICT:
Sensation amount of WX information available -TAF's split into VFR and IFR fields, cloud, lightning etc. If it were available in OZ I would sign up in a heartbeat, but I doubt whether it will be available for many years to come.
Ovation, likewise! If the equivalent of XMS weather was available in Oz I would equip and sign-up in a flash!
... but I also want,
1) VHF available on the ground at all licenced aerodromes
2) WAAS
Dr
... but I also want,
1) VHF available on the ground at all licenced aerodromes
2) WAAS
Dr
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Ovation:
Unfortunately looks like the overwhelming majority dont really want to spend any money for such a device. It would mean replacing your GLD69A with a new product the plan was then to use one of a few different methods to deliver the data to the aircraft. The Cheapest way is via Land based mobile telephone network but regulatory requirements are almost impossibles for a TSO'ed device. (good for the hand held gps/laptop) Also coverage is not 100% The other possibilities are
Geostationary satellite transponder which would be exclude by cost of renting the transponder.
Low Earth Orbit Telephone/data satellites. (like iridium or globalstar) these are starting to get around the price point we need. They also provide two way voice as an added bonus.
H.F Radio Multicast Network. This is a bit of a pain if a HF antenna if not fitted would have to be installed. But H.F Multi cast is very cost effective the whole county could be covered with a handful of stations (day and night) On the other hand it's very cheap and the way i am leaning. Perhaps a combination of the above two systems. Depending on the operators needs.
But again im thinking of putting it all on the back burner looks like $10k for such a device + install would not be practical. Perhaps there are some Avyonics shops around the country that would like to offer there opinion. Would there customers buy such a device. I wonder what the uptake of the WAAS conversion for the GNS-430 is and it's only $1500
Unfortunately looks like the overwhelming majority dont really want to spend any money for such a device. It would mean replacing your GLD69A with a new product the plan was then to use one of a few different methods to deliver the data to the aircraft. The Cheapest way is via Land based mobile telephone network but regulatory requirements are almost impossibles for a TSO'ed device. (good for the hand held gps/laptop) Also coverage is not 100% The other possibilities are
Geostationary satellite transponder which would be exclude by cost of renting the transponder.
Low Earth Orbit Telephone/data satellites. (like iridium or globalstar) these are starting to get around the price point we need. They also provide two way voice as an added bonus.
H.F Radio Multicast Network. This is a bit of a pain if a HF antenna if not fitted would have to be installed. But H.F Multi cast is very cost effective the whole county could be covered with a handful of stations (day and night) On the other hand it's very cheap and the way i am leaning. Perhaps a combination of the above two systems. Depending on the operators needs.
But again im thinking of putting it all on the back burner looks like $10k for such a device + install would not be practical. Perhaps there are some Avyonics shops around the country that would like to offer there opinion. Would there customers buy such a device. I wonder what the uptake of the WAAS conversion for the GNS-430 is and it's only $1500
I wonder what the uptake of the WAAS conversion for the GNS-430 is and it's only $1500
I was quoted US$3148 a couple of weeks ago - which I subsequently confirmed is the current price for the TSO 145/6 (WAAS) upgrade ex Garmin.
Dr
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FTDK
"I was quoted US$3148" Yea and as the only real advantage it gives us is Sole means under the TSO145/6 and WAAS does not work in Oz I dont see the real benefit at the moment. I allready have the terrain mod which would also be a bonus but it was around the $1000 mark i seem to remember. I think i will hang on a little longer before i go for this one. With the lack of flightwatch on VHF these days i may spend my money on improving the reliability of my HF for now.
"I was quoted US$3148" Yea and as the only real advantage it gives us is Sole means under the TSO145/6 and WAAS does not work in Oz I dont see the real benefit at the moment. I allready have the terrain mod which would also be a bonus but it was around the $1000 mark i seem to remember. I think i will hang on a little longer before i go for this one. With the lack of flightwatch on VHF these days i may spend my money on improving the reliability of my HF for now.