Flying instructors flavour of the month with airlines
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Flying instructors flavour of the month with airlines
Interesting how things change. In today's Australian newspaper, a journalist writes that qualified flying instructors are being recruited by the airlines because they see them as pilots who can adapt easily and quickly to the airline environment. On the other hand it was only last year before the current airline recruiting boom, that regionals, charter operators and airlines wouldn't have a bar of instructors because they hadn't done the perceived hard yards living and flying in the bush.
When Virgin Blue started up it was almost a prequisite to arrive at the interview with red dust on your Doc Martens and a host of aborigine named airstrips in the log book. Instructors rarely got a look in.
When Virgin Blue started up it was almost a prequisite to arrive at the interview with red dust on your Doc Martens and a host of aborigine named airstrips in the log book. Instructors rarely got a look in.
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When Virgin Blue started up it was almost a prequisite to arrive at the interview with red dust on your Doc Martens and a host of aborigine named airstrips in the log book
I'll have to pick myself up a copy of the new mag, very reassuring news indeed. I am not sure why there was ever a question of doubt over instructors in the first place.
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I'll second that. In twelve years of professional flying, I would have characterised my experience as probably 75% instructing & 25% charter/RPT/other types of flying. Whilst it's worth noting that a good portion of my instructing time was training airline cadets in multi-IFR/LOFT exercises, I don't think I was ever less equipped for stepping up to jet RPT simply because I hadn't done my rite of passage by slumming it in a C206/Baron/402 up north for a few years. An instructing background provided me with strong inter-crew communications skills, a very strong background knowledge in procedures, techniques, regs etc, and in spite of the popular argument that instructors can't fly because their student is at the controls more than they are, a strong feel for the aeroplane - because you were the instructor, thus you had to be a cut above the rest. In other words, if you couldn't get it right, what hope did the student have?!?
Nevertheless, and in fairness to those who come from the "traditional" charter background, I think everyone has something to contribute. We all aspire to the same goal, it's just a question of which road we take to get there. Still, it's nice to see more guys from an instructing background finally being given their due.
Nevertheless, and in fairness to those who come from the "traditional" charter background, I think everyone has something to contribute. We all aspire to the same goal, it's just a question of which road we take to get there. Still, it's nice to see more guys from an instructing background finally being given their due.
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"Pilot instructors in high demand" The Australian
Interesting, I didn't know there was a Future Pilot Task Force. Anyone has any details on them, website, mission, etc.?
Not surprised the airlines have suddenly established a liking for instructors -- as there are less experienced guys to recruit from the GA field, they're looking for alternative sources for future employees.. or am I being cynical here?
From The Australian, today:
AUSTRALIA needs to boost flying instructor numbers by at least 15 per cent over the next five years to avoid a serious pilot shortage, a new industry task force has warned.
Qualified flying instructors are being recruited by airlines, and aviation educators are being urged to look at better ways of attracting replacements.
Instructors are attractive to the carriers because they see them as pilots who can adapt easily and quickly to the airline environment.
But the worry is that there may be too few flying instructors to train enough pilots to meet growing industry demand.
The tight pilot job market is already starting to bite in Australia with regional airlines complaining they are having trouble retaining their workers.
Regional Express last week revealed it was experiencing an annual attrition rate of 60 per cent and warned of a bloodbath this year among smaller airlines because of the shortage.
The Future Pilot Task Force met for the first time in Sydney on Monday and put pilot shortages at the top of a list of key industry risk factors.
The task force - made up of representatives from major airlines, flying training organisations, higher education institutions, industry organisations and federal government departments - is particularly concerned about about the fall in flying instructor numbers.
"What we have identified is that it is difficult to retain pilot instructors for a range of reasons including the high demand in the job market for working pilots," taskforce convenor and University of South Australia head of aviation Steven Phillips said.
"But that points to a need for greater career path planning for qualified pilots and more promotion of the flight instructor role as a legitimate and rewarding occupation."
Task force members agreed to work together to promote the role of the flight instructor and to improve how an instructor rating was perceived as part of a career path to an airline job.
Airlines agreed that flight instruction should be recognised as a profession by the industry and that an instructor rating should be recognised as one of the best things for aspiring airline pilots to have on their CVs.
The task force will establish a working group to develop "pre-selection" testing that would identify people with the potential to be both instructors and airline pilots.
This is likely to consist of psychometric, numeracy, literacy, decision making and motor skills tests similar to those already used by the airlines.
Mr Phillips said the task force believed this would give potential candidates the confidence to choose flight instruction as a suitable career path into airlines.
"There are still a reasonable number of people coming through the training program who see working charter or for a small company in Northern Australia and building up your hours as a better pathway to the airlines than going into flying instruction," he said.
"One of the pushes out of Monday was to start working on changing that perception. And certainly the idea of preselection in itself would change that perception dramatically. If the only way you can get preselection is by being a flying instructor, we would see a turnaround there."
The task force also wants to promote piloting as a worthwhile and rewarding career and hopes to entice back qualified instructors who have left the industry.
"If we can convince even 5 per cent to return that would have a very positive impact on the industry both in having their expertise and in relieving immediate stress in the education area," Mr Phillips said.
"We hope to develop a bit of a city-to-city roadshow, using the recent Qantas pilot recruitment roadshow as a model, to promote piloting as a career and we will be working closely across the industry with airlines and training organisations to present the diverse career options for pilots."
Not surprised the airlines have suddenly established a liking for instructors -- as there are less experienced guys to recruit from the GA field, they're looking for alternative sources for future employees.. or am I being cynical here?
From The Australian, today:
AUSTRALIA needs to boost flying instructor numbers by at least 15 per cent over the next five years to avoid a serious pilot shortage, a new industry task force has warned.
Qualified flying instructors are being recruited by airlines, and aviation educators are being urged to look at better ways of attracting replacements.
Instructors are attractive to the carriers because they see them as pilots who can adapt easily and quickly to the airline environment.
But the worry is that there may be too few flying instructors to train enough pilots to meet growing industry demand.
The tight pilot job market is already starting to bite in Australia with regional airlines complaining they are having trouble retaining their workers.
Regional Express last week revealed it was experiencing an annual attrition rate of 60 per cent and warned of a bloodbath this year among smaller airlines because of the shortage.
The Future Pilot Task Force met for the first time in Sydney on Monday and put pilot shortages at the top of a list of key industry risk factors.
The task force - made up of representatives from major airlines, flying training organisations, higher education institutions, industry organisations and federal government departments - is particularly concerned about about the fall in flying instructor numbers.
"What we have identified is that it is difficult to retain pilot instructors for a range of reasons including the high demand in the job market for working pilots," taskforce convenor and University of South Australia head of aviation Steven Phillips said.
"But that points to a need for greater career path planning for qualified pilots and more promotion of the flight instructor role as a legitimate and rewarding occupation."
Task force members agreed to work together to promote the role of the flight instructor and to improve how an instructor rating was perceived as part of a career path to an airline job.
Airlines agreed that flight instruction should be recognised as a profession by the industry and that an instructor rating should be recognised as one of the best things for aspiring airline pilots to have on their CVs.
The task force will establish a working group to develop "pre-selection" testing that would identify people with the potential to be both instructors and airline pilots.
This is likely to consist of psychometric, numeracy, literacy, decision making and motor skills tests similar to those already used by the airlines.
Mr Phillips said the task force believed this would give potential candidates the confidence to choose flight instruction as a suitable career path into airlines.
"There are still a reasonable number of people coming through the training program who see working charter or for a small company in Northern Australia and building up your hours as a better pathway to the airlines than going into flying instruction," he said.
"One of the pushes out of Monday was to start working on changing that perception. And certainly the idea of preselection in itself would change that perception dramatically. If the only way you can get preselection is by being a flying instructor, we would see a turnaround there."
The task force also wants to promote piloting as a worthwhile and rewarding career and hopes to entice back qualified instructors who have left the industry.
"If we can convince even 5 per cent to return that would have a very positive impact on the industry both in having their expertise and in relieving immediate stress in the education area," Mr Phillips said.
"We hope to develop a bit of a city-to-city roadshow, using the recent Qantas pilot recruitment roadshow as a model, to promote piloting as a career and we will be working closely across the industry with airlines and training organisations to present the diverse career options for pilots."
Last edited by PlankBlender; 15th Feb 2008 at 02:39.
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Hey, everyone can be trained to do the job.
Some just don't feel a need to open a conversation with "When I was instructing at ........."
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Some just don't feel a need to open a conversation with "When I was instructing at ........."
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I remember after instructing for several years we went to one of those CASA safety seminars. One of the speakers was a Capt from Ansett recruiting who opened with, "We at Ansett never like to hire instructors. They watch other people fly and have no sence of schedule...".
Of course we were horrified.
But lets face it instructors have to MANAGE the flight just like anyone else. As any instructor in an NDB holding pattern in IMC with a simulated engine shut down with other Duchies and Seminole darting around can tell you.
But as the previous post said we all have a similar goal. At my last (RPT) job both instructors and bank-runners performed equally well.
Of course we were horrified.
But lets face it instructors have to MANAGE the flight just like anyone else. As any instructor in an NDB holding pattern in IMC with a simulated engine shut down with other Duchies and Seminole darting around can tell you.But as the previous post said we all have a similar goal. At my last (RPT) job both instructors and bank-runners performed equally well.
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I don't think they are targetting instructors anymore than any other type of pilot, more likely they are taking pilots from a broad selection of disciplines and instructors are being caught in that very broad net!
Are they trying to tell us that an instructor is more suited to working at a major than a regional pilot?
Are they trying to tell us that an instructor is more suited to working at a major than a regional pilot?
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The task force will establish a working group to develop "pre-selection" testing that would identify people with the potential to be both instructors and airline pilots.
This is likely to consist of psychometric, numeracy, literacy, decision making and motor skills tests similar to those already used by the airlines.
Mr Phillips said the task force believed this would give potential candidates the confidence to choose flight instruction as a suitable career path into airlines.
This is likely to consist of psychometric, numeracy, literacy, decision making and motor skills tests similar to those already used by the airlines.
Mr Phillips said the task force believed this would give potential candidates the confidence to choose flight instruction as a suitable career path into airlines.
They watch other people fly and have no sense of schedule...
I believe that instructors will be increasingly attractive to airlines due to the looming MPL qualification for copilots. These low time FOs will be cheaper hires but make for a steeper cockpit skill gradient and demand more training and closer supervision from captains than previously. Those with instructing backgrounds will know what I mean! Flying with someone continually making mistakes and learning certainly hones those skills.
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This is bull****. 
Airlines don't know what they want. As long as they keep employing wet behind the ears sprogs over experienced pilots (instructors or not) they will reap what they sow soon in increased accidents and probably fatalities. 
And yes I am bitter....but I believe many feel the same to some degree.
Airlines don't know what they want. As long as they keep employing wet behind the ears sprogs over experienced pilots (instructors or not) they will reap what they sow soon in increased accidents and probably fatalities. And yes I am bitter....but I believe many feel the same to some degree.
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Quote....."As long as they keep employing wet behind the ears sprogs over experienced pilots (instructors or not) "
....and pray tell....which one are you........the sprog???? or the udda??
....and pray tell....which one are you........the sprog???? or the udda??
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A bit harsh. I think it's more to do with hiring somebody with the right attitude, not just their logbook. An instructor might have better communication skills, it doesn't mean that somebody that didn't instruct is a poor communicator. A pilot who goes bush and does hard yards, might have developed better leadership skills in the process, but an instructor that didn't do that, might have been a natural leader anyway!
The truth is that you need to be both a good communicator and an effective leader when the time, training and seniority call for it.
There is no firm path trodden by anyone to guarantee success or failure in the final outcome.
I think pilot recruitment right now must be harder than ever.
The truth is that you need to be both a good communicator and an effective leader when the time, training and seniority call for it.
There is no firm path trodden by anyone to guarantee success or failure in the final outcome.
I think pilot recruitment right now must be harder than ever.
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It seems to me the idea of attracting instructors based on the fact they can move on to an airline promotes the profession as simply a stepping stone. The result being I'll have to keep working with fools who don't care about their students and just want hours.
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Yes
The whole idea that GA is just there to provide free pilot training for the airlines is very wrong. GA provides essential transport and other aviation services that the nation depends on for development and growth. There are about 10,000 non airline aircraft in Australia, and lots of professional pilots outside the airlines.
City people seem to think that Australia stops about 100 miles from the coast, and they rarely see real GA operating. Except when the agricultural aircraft turn into water bombers and help defend their houses from bushfires. The airlines and the military have not been much help for that.
Strim has it right. This has been happening to outback charter in recent times. Some pilots,(lots) seem to have believed that they were going to go from high school to skygod in six months, and use GA to do it. (and thats only exaggerating a little bit). They, and their flying schools did enormous damage to GA, and the serious GA pilots.
The airline recruiting saga is in fact a comedy of errors. It has gone from having a huge pool of desperate GA pilots who trained themselves and were broke, fiercely fighting over a small number of GA jobs and learning about reality, to todays situation. Now the airlines find themselves needing pilots, and the pool is not so big. They have not paid attention to the recruiting situation for years because it was easy and there were plenty of CPL and ATPL holders waiting for the call. They have not made any long term arrangements for new pilots. Pilots just come knocking on the door don't they? And some of the airlines seem to say that only one in a hundred are good enough?? If that is the case there is something wrong with their advertising, or their selection and training process. I think they got that attitude from the air force.
City people seem to think that Australia stops about 100 miles from the coast, and they rarely see real GA operating. Except when the agricultural aircraft turn into water bombers and help defend their houses from bushfires. The airlines and the military have not been much help for that.
Strim has it right. This has been happening to outback charter in recent times. Some pilots,(lots) seem to have believed that they were going to go from high school to skygod in six months, and use GA to do it. (and thats only exaggerating a little bit). They, and their flying schools did enormous damage to GA, and the serious GA pilots.
The airline recruiting saga is in fact a comedy of errors. It has gone from having a huge pool of desperate GA pilots who trained themselves and were broke, fiercely fighting over a small number of GA jobs and learning about reality, to todays situation. Now the airlines find themselves needing pilots, and the pool is not so big. They have not paid attention to the recruiting situation for years because it was easy and there were plenty of CPL and ATPL holders waiting for the call. They have not made any long term arrangements for new pilots. Pilots just come knocking on the door don't they? And some of the airlines seem to say that only one in a hundred are good enough?? If that is the case there is something wrong with their advertising, or their selection and training process. I think they got that attitude from the air force.
Last edited by bushy; 16th Feb 2008 at 04:13.
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Recruiting
Now we have the ultra low cost airlines that cannot? spend like airlines used to spend (just like GA) and cannot afford to train a continuous stream of transient pilots who are using this as a "stepping stone" to the highly paid skygod job somewhere else.(just like GA.) Nor can they afford to have the "bitching Bertha's" that have been so apparent here. (the ones who flew those "clapped out" aeroplanes. The next aeroplanes they fly will also be "clapped out")
So the airlines are now low paying and very selective. They need positive, enthusiastic pilots who will accept bonding and a right hand seat for a (guaranteed) few years. I think the MPL will be significant here. Maybe contract pilots. Maybe CPL's in the Right hand seat?
And those airlines that commit themselves to long term training and recruiting, and make a commitment to their trainees will have less staffing problems.
The long term regional pilot will come back, as will the long term GA pilot.
When the bludging airlines stop stuffing it up.
So the airlines are now low paying and very selective. They need positive, enthusiastic pilots who will accept bonding and a right hand seat for a (guaranteed) few years. I think the MPL will be significant here. Maybe contract pilots. Maybe CPL's in the Right hand seat?
And those airlines that commit themselves to long term training and recruiting, and make a commitment to their trainees will have less staffing problems.
The long term regional pilot will come back, as will the long term GA pilot.
When the bludging airlines stop stuffing it up.
To be honest I think the increase in instructor hires stems from the growing acceptance of instructors as pilots. I know that a year ago REX wouldnt touch anyone who had instructed with a 10m stick (10.5 maybe
), and there are now a lot of instructors getting jobs there. Same could be said of virgin/qf etc. I don't think that airlines are saying "instructors make better airline pilots", theyre just saying "instructors can be airline pilots as well." Makes you all warm and fuzzy dont it!
Side note: anyone had a look at the new scholarship program FTA is running... sounds pretty good if you're interested in airlines
Arrr.
), and there are now a lot of instructors getting jobs there. Same could be said of virgin/qf etc. I don't think that airlines are saying "instructors make better airline pilots", theyre just saying "instructors can be airline pilots as well." Makes you all warm and fuzzy dont it!Side note: anyone had a look at the new scholarship program FTA is running... sounds pretty good if you're interested in airlines
Arrr.
This week it will be instructors.
Next week it will be pilots with single-pilot RPT experience.
The week after that it will be guys with turbine experience.
In March it will be guys with NT remote experience.
In April it will be female pilots only.
In May it will RAAF pilots.
Just remember airline recruiting is driven by what the respective Captains need to get their respective son or daughter a slot on the next course!!
Next week it will be pilots with single-pilot RPT experience.
The week after that it will be guys with turbine experience.
In March it will be guys with NT remote experience.
In April it will be female pilots only.
In May it will RAAF pilots.
Just remember airline recruiting is driven by what the respective Captains need to get their respective son or daughter a slot on the next course!!
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It could be worse.......
Zhaadum (post #12),
Don't get mad, get even. Keep applying, keep trying. It shows good character when a person gets up after he's knocked down, time and time again.
Remember, it could be worse...... you could have no job or a company fold on you.
Don't get mad, get even. Keep applying, keep trying. It shows good character when a person gets up after he's knocked down, time and time again.
Remember, it could be worse...... you could have no job or a company fold on you.