Virgin Blue ETOPS
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Virgin Blue ETOPS
This was done a few years ago but much has changed since then.
Can anyone give details on the current ETOPS limits Virgin Blue and Pacific Blue operate to.
Many Thanks
Can anyone give details on the current ETOPS limits Virgin Blue and Pacific Blue operate to.
Many Thanks
Join Date: May 2001
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ETOPS
ETOPS? What is it, explain?
Extended Time Two Engine Operations 90,120 minute ETOPS for the B737NG, (Virgin has 120 min ETOPS)
It consists of
1. Operational Approval in accordance with the CAO’s
2. Flight Crew training
3. Airworthiness requirements
a. Aircraft type
b. Propulsion system- risk of dual Failure “Extremely Remote” (defined as “unlikely to occur during the total service life of a number of aircraft of the same type, but nevertheless regarded as possible”)
c. Electrical Power-3 reliable, independent non-time limited electrical power systems must be available. One may be an APU.
d. APU must have full airstart capability over the full flight envelope of the aircraft.
e. Standby electrical power-
f. Min Tech crew workload
g. System redundancy (all electrical, Hydraulic & Pneumatic systems be available all stages of flight)
h. Time-limited equipment (cargo fire suppression) capable of endurance plus 15 mins.
i. Ice Protection-Airframe & powerplant ice protection
j. Flight Testing
4. Company Maintenance & Monitoring-
a. Maintenance sufficient experience on type
b. Maintenance dept show they can perform all necessary maintenance and inspection of aircraft.
c. All manuals have to reflect ETOPS requirements and staff trained accordingly.
d. Extra monitoring of component operation is a vital part of airworthiness (Engines, APU’s, and all ETOP safety systems)
e. ETOPS specific Pre-Flight inspection to be done by LAME .
f. LAMES must positively verify any malfunction written up has been rectified( a verification flight may be necessary)
5. Routes
a. CASA approval of each route
6. Operations
a. Performance information for the calculation of the of ETOPS critical fuel scenario after OEI, DP&OEI & DP.
b. Fuel for failures listed in point a. considering icing and supplemental oxygen.
c. PIC must nominate pre-flight adequate aerodromes, inflight selection of diversion ports,
d. Detailed reporting of malfunction
e. The company provides- Flight following for all ETOPS, phone patch through HF and company VHF within range.
f. Adequate aerodromes must comply with CAO 82 Appendix 2
g. MEL’s must comply with ETOPS req’ments
h. Inflight monitoring of all systems necessary for the safety of ETOPS flights
7. Planning Stage
a. Adequate aerodromes must be available for 30 mins prior to earliest possible ETA and 30 mins after latest possible ETA and must be 500’ above the ceiling and 2km above the vis of the most appropriate instrument approach minima. (normal tempo & inter holding fuel applies)
8. Inflight
a. ETA Buffers no longer apply
Extended Time Two Engine Operations 90,120 minute ETOPS for the B737NG, (Virgin has 120 min ETOPS)
It consists of
1. Operational Approval in accordance with the CAO’s
2. Flight Crew training
3. Airworthiness requirements
a. Aircraft type
b. Propulsion system- risk of dual Failure “Extremely Remote” (defined as “unlikely to occur during the total service life of a number of aircraft of the same type, but nevertheless regarded as possible”)
c. Electrical Power-3 reliable, independent non-time limited electrical power systems must be available. One may be an APU.
d. APU must have full airstart capability over the full flight envelope of the aircraft.
e. Standby electrical power-
f. Min Tech crew workload
g. System redundancy (all electrical, Hydraulic & Pneumatic systems be available all stages of flight)
h. Time-limited equipment (cargo fire suppression) capable of endurance plus 15 mins.
i. Ice Protection-Airframe & powerplant ice protection
j. Flight Testing
4. Company Maintenance & Monitoring-
a. Maintenance sufficient experience on type
b. Maintenance dept show they can perform all necessary maintenance and inspection of aircraft.
c. All manuals have to reflect ETOPS requirements and staff trained accordingly.
d. Extra monitoring of component operation is a vital part of airworthiness (Engines, APU’s, and all ETOP safety systems)
e. ETOPS specific Pre-Flight inspection to be done by LAME .
f. LAMES must positively verify any malfunction written up has been rectified( a verification flight may be necessary)
5. Routes
a. CASA approval of each route
6. Operations
a. Performance information for the calculation of the of ETOPS critical fuel scenario after OEI, DP&OEI & DP.
b. Fuel for failures listed in point a. considering icing and supplemental oxygen.
c. PIC must nominate pre-flight adequate aerodromes, inflight selection of diversion ports,
d. Detailed reporting of malfunction
e. The company provides- Flight following for all ETOPS, phone patch through HF and company VHF within range.
f. Adequate aerodromes must comply with CAO 82 Appendix 2
g. MEL’s must comply with ETOPS req’ments
h. Inflight monitoring of all systems necessary for the safety of ETOPS flights
7. Planning Stage
a. Adequate aerodromes must be available for 30 mins prior to earliest possible ETA and 30 mins after latest possible ETA and must be 500’ above the ceiling and 2km above the vis of the most appropriate instrument approach minima. (normal tempo & inter holding fuel applies)
8. Inflight
a. ETA Buffers no longer apply
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Do you reckon VB are using ETOPS domestically as aproving ground for V australia?
I have heard a few mumbles around that they would fly around 4-6 mins ETOPS on Per-Bne for example. Is it really worth it? Surely once V is up and going VB will can it! Your thoughts?
I have heard a few mumbles around that they would fly around 4-6 mins ETOPS on Per-Bne for example. Is it really worth it? Surely once V is up and going VB will can it! Your thoughts?
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For VB only operating throughout Australia, the ETOPS becomes useful across the "Great Australian Bite", on the many East/West southern routes... the fuel savings in the direct tracking it provides are big, considering frequencies.
Pacific Blue and more so Polynesian Blue could not operate many of their runs without the ETOPS.
The ETOPS approval is specific to an individual Company, aircraft type (& rego) along with it's "proven" maintenance provider. V may gain some benefit from it's ETOPs Maintenance experience (via Virgin Tech), although they have no 777 experience. The Aircraft comes with an automatic ETOPS approval but V, being a separate company, I suspect has to run through the whole approval process for itself.
Pacific Blue and more so Polynesian Blue could not operate many of their runs without the ETOPS.
The ETOPS approval is specific to an individual Company, aircraft type (& rego) along with it's "proven" maintenance provider. V may gain some benefit from it's ETOPs Maintenance experience (via Virgin Tech), although they have no 777 experience. The Aircraft comes with an automatic ETOPS approval but V, being a separate company, I suspect has to run through the whole approval process for itself.
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Etops
Yes the whole ETOPS would appear pretty academic exercise really for 99% of operations. Forrest can be used as a non-Etops alternate and keep everything but the most southern routes within the 60 mins. However Forrest is not an ETOPS suitable alternate.
So on most occasions it is not even required, I didnt get my ETOPS training completed for a couple of months after my check to line.. And it didnt make any difference. Nav Services just printed a NON-ETOPS flight plan and used Forrest as the alternate and the same track. However if Forrest or Kalgoorlie isnt available then you need the ETOPS.
l have no doubt that it is all building up ETOPS experience within the company and its personnel. How or whether V Australia use that experience is to be seen.
So on most occasions it is not even required, I didnt get my ETOPS training completed for a couple of months after my check to line.. And it didnt make any difference. Nav Services just printed a NON-ETOPS flight plan and used Forrest as the alternate and the same track. However if Forrest or Kalgoorlie isnt available then you need the ETOPS.
l have no doubt that it is all building up ETOPS experience within the company and its personnel. How or whether V Australia use that experience is to be seen.
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Like Avid, I thought VB's ETOPS was suspended (??)
Also, I'm told there are still no rafts onboard the 738's though (which I'm sure would be very reasuring to the punters.) Had a quick look and the Exemption from carrying rafts issued in Aug 05 expired in August 07 and specified <120mins@ norm cruise or 400nm on VB Boeing 737 ops between SYD, MEL, ADL & PER.
while it is to some degree an academic debate - it seems that for the relatively small notional cost and extra few kgs in the ceiling stowages that its an unecesary omission.
Also, I'm told there are still no rafts onboard the 738's though (which I'm sure would be very reasuring to the punters.) Had a quick look and the Exemption from carrying rafts issued in Aug 05 expired in August 07 and specified <120mins@ norm cruise or 400nm on VB Boeing 737 ops between SYD, MEL, ADL & PER.
while it is to some degree an academic debate - it seems that for the relatively small notional cost and extra few kgs in the ceiling stowages that its an unecesary omission.
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ETOPS has been operating for around 2 yers since DJ suspended it due to maintenance records issues. Thou of course on those days when APU or MEL'd parts don't allow ETOPS to be used.
