Flying in torrential downpours
Thread Starter
Flying in torrential downpours
The last couple of days have got me thinking.
Does flying in a torrential downpour, ie really heavy rain, pose any threat to a Lycoming/Continental engine?
I have flown into a couple of very heavy downpours and so far have come out the other side, but I have never deliberately taken off knowing that such conditions existed along my flightpath.
Would be interested to hear the thoughts of those who do, or have, tangled with this sort of thing every day.
Dr
Does flying in a torrential downpour, ie really heavy rain, pose any threat to a Lycoming/Continental engine?
I have flown into a couple of very heavy downpours and so far have come out the other side, but I have never deliberately taken off knowing that such conditions existed along my flightpath.
Would be interested to hear the thoughts of those who do, or have, tangled with this sort of thing every day.
Dr
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i have flown throgh a few reasonably heavy downpours, in Archers, just made sure carby heat was on, and closed the vents.... im not really sure how protected the ignition system is, but i was more worried about water entering the fuel system, as the aircraft i flew tented to syphon fuel from under the caps when they were brimmed, especially in climb or with flap out. so i figured it would be just as easy for water to enter vie the same route.
Grandpa Aerotart
I have spent my fair share of time flying in absolutely torrential downpours in piston powered aircraft and never experienced a problem.
I think you might be surprised at how little water makes it inside the cowling and how dry and warm it is in there even flying in tropical HEAVY rain....what little makes it past the prop evaporates pretty quickly I would think when it hits cylinders all hovering around 300-350C.
While the alternator (well encased) is sat out front on many piston engines the magnetos are usually well hidden in back.
It always seemed more an issue in turbines actually..it doesn't take much rain before you're reaching for the ignition switches.
I think you might be surprised at how little water makes it inside the cowling and how dry and warm it is in there even flying in tropical HEAVY rain....what little makes it past the prop evaporates pretty quickly I would think when it hits cylinders all hovering around 300-350C.
While the alternator (well encased) is sat out front on many piston engines the magnetos are usually well hidden in back.
It always seemed more an issue in turbines actually..it doesn't take much rain before you're reaching for the ignition switches.
Thread Starter
Hey Ultralights, thanks for your thoughts. I guess I had big, he-man type engines in mind - fuel injection etc.
Chuckles, your comments agree with my experience. I have stumbled across some VERY HEAVY rain in this part of the world, with no ill effects.
Dr
Chuckles, your comments agree with my experience. I have stumbled across some VERY HEAVY rain in this part of the world, with no ill effects.
Dr
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There is somewhere (and I wish I could remember) a very good science based article on the cooling effect of flying into a heavy downpour. Had some lovely maths with it.
The basis of the article was to demonstrate the emotional foundation behind the shock cooling myth (largely). People (used to) carry on like pork chops about about shock cooling, yet the same people never stopped to consider the ramifications of torrential downpours, which as it turns out has a measurable effect on cooling. But don't worry it ain't going to crack. Although I do sometimes wonder about the blast tube directed at the Mags, but history seems to say it's not a problem.
Used to ride head long into thigh deep creek crossings on a red hot XR600 with no ill effects. Well none that I noticed anyway.
M
The basis of the article was to demonstrate the emotional foundation behind the shock cooling myth (largely). People (used to) carry on like pork chops about about shock cooling, yet the same people never stopped to consider the ramifications of torrential downpours, which as it turns out has a measurable effect on cooling. But don't worry it ain't going to crack. Although I do sometimes wonder about the blast tube directed at the Mags, but history seems to say it's not a problem.
Used to ride head long into thigh deep creek crossings on a red hot XR600 with no ill effects. Well none that I noticed anyway.
M
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Yeah Dr I saw the news tonight mentioning the 'drizzle' you guys are having up Nth (who would want to live there anyway!) & thought of you straight away......how sad is that, thinking of the Dr whilst I ought to be enjoying the balmy evenin's down sth
As most have mentioned in here heavy rain doesn't seem to effect a piston eng. But I do remember many years ago (mid 80's) a guy whom his name escapes me at the moment ( I ought to know him, spoke with him many times, he even wrote a book about the adventure) flew around the world in a Hawk XP Cessna & where I worked at the time (YSTW) he mentioned that heavy rain OS somewhere nearly bought him down when the air filter of his Cont IO360 (6 cyl) fell apart & ingested into the eng. So I guess under certain circumstances heavy rain can have some impact!
Damn I hate that, I can almost see his face now, ( he had a pvt strip just in a town nth of Syd towards TW, someone will remember this guy. Anyway good to see yr staying put whilst the wx passes. Even I/we won't fly in that stuff & we fly funny round engines (not the rattling radials either!)
Dr I like yr opening statement. "last couple of days have got me thinking" What about getting another engine added to the Bo ?........wise, trust me, me not want the Dr to slip into the history books just yet
CW
As most have mentioned in here heavy rain doesn't seem to effect a piston eng. But I do remember many years ago (mid 80's) a guy whom his name escapes me at the moment ( I ought to know him, spoke with him many times, he even wrote a book about the adventure) flew around the world in a Hawk XP Cessna & where I worked at the time (YSTW) he mentioned that heavy rain OS somewhere nearly bought him down when the air filter of his Cont IO360 (6 cyl) fell apart & ingested into the eng. So I guess under certain circumstances heavy rain can have some impact!
Damn I hate that, I can almost see his face now, ( he had a pvt strip just in a town nth of Syd towards TW, someone will remember this guy. Anyway good to see yr staying put whilst the wx passes. Even I/we won't fly in that stuff & we fly funny round engines (not the rattling radials either!)
Dr I like yr opening statement. "last couple of days have got me thinking" What about getting another engine added to the Bo ?
........wise, trust me, me not want the Dr to slip into the history books just yetCW
G'day FTDK,
You mean this sort of torrential rain. Going into Cairns in a B767 a couple of years ago and the ignitors were working overtime. The noise you can hear, other than the wipers, is the rain hitting the cockpit skin.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WnguYtpZMUc
Regards,
BH.
You mean this sort of torrential rain. Going into Cairns in a B767 a couple of years ago and the ignitors were working overtime. The noise you can hear, other than the wipers, is the rain hitting the cockpit skin.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WnguYtpZMUc
Regards,
BH.
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Terrific little vid there BH, tnxs. I have flown many a times in similar wx out in the Pacific, scarey actually esspecially at night. I noticed the wipers where going at diff speeds. The F/O's seemed quicker, care to explain? Perhaps diff speeds selcted?
CW
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Capt Wally, would you perchance be thinking of Peter Norvill ?
And yes, the air filter is the weakest point in the system. Alternate air or Carby heat is the only remaining option to keep the fire going if the filter 'clogs up'
Re the mags, I think you'll find they are behind the rear baffle on most installations at least that I can think of. They are therefore protected from the direct airflow and rain stream.
I was always more concerned about water entering the alternator/generator via its cooling air intake.
tipsy
And yes, the air filter is the weakest point in the system. Alternate air or Carby heat is the only remaining option to keep the fire going if the filter 'clogs up'
Re the mags, I think you'll find they are behind the rear baffle on most installations at least that I can think of. They are therefore protected from the direct airflow and rain stream.
I was always more concerned about water entering the alternator/generator via its cooling air intake.
tipsy
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Peter Norvill
But I do remember many years ago (mid 80's) a guy whom his name escapes me at the moment ( I ought to know him, spoke with him many times, he even wrote a book about the adventure) flew around the world in a Hawk XP Cessna & where I worked at the time (YSTW) he mentioned that heavy rain OS somewhere nearly bought him down when the air filter of his Cont IO360 (6 cyl) fell apart & ingested into the eng.
I believe the chap you are refering to is Peter Norvill. He wrote a book about the adventure called Solo Around The World. Quite a good read actually, all done prior to GPS. He has a website http://www.norvilleaustralia.com.au/
divcom
G'day Capt Wally,
I'd never noticed, though my mind was on other things during that approach.
There is only one wiper switch for both wipers so it must just be a difference in manufacturing tolerance or wear.
After that approach we flew up to Narita and did it all again in a snowstorm this time but unfortunately didn't manage do get a video of that approach.
Regards,
BH.
I'd never noticed, though my mind was on other things during that approach.
There is only one wiper switch for both wipers so it must just be a difference in manufacturing tolerance or wear.
After that approach we flew up to Narita and did it all again in a snowstorm this time but unfortunately didn't manage do get a video of that approach.
Regards,
BH.
Last edited by Bullethead; 12th Feb 2008 at 10:03. Reason: Fix up typos
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ahhhhhhh 'tipsy' yr also my hero (Dr is the other one) yes it was Peter Norvill Tall thin guy if I remember correctly. Wonder what he's up to these days? Thanks for that, it was going to drive me mad !
Now just trying to think where his strip was? somewhere along the TW SY rd I think. Keep thinking of Qurindi (spelt something like that) but that's not on that rd!
CW
) yes it was Peter Norvill Tall thin guy if I remember correctly. Wonder what he's up to these days? Thanks for that, it was going to drive me mad !Now just trying to think where his strip was? somewhere along the TW SY rd I think. Keep thinking of Qurindi (spelt something like that) but that's not on that rd!
CW
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Tnxs BH, yes I can imagine that yr mind was on other things, (actually I enjoy an approach to the min, makes good use of all that training!........enjoyed the vid, again tnxs.
CW
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Been in a few torrentiall downpours myself SE/IFR lately - it is worrying. The only thing I've noticed is that No 1 CHT goes down a bit so something cool must be getting there - otherwise the old girl never misses a beat. Cannot help thinking about driving a Mini around in the 70's - remember that distributor and plug leads exposed to the atmosphere behind the front grill? Only a sniff of dampness and the damn thing would stop. Hoping the the Lycoming does better than that!
Peter "Knackers" Norville lives near Murrurundi and Quirindi on the New England Highway. He is a much respected grazier, prominent local citizen and patron of the arts.
Last I spoke to him he declined to have anything to do with Aviation, or more specifically, with the local Aero Club.
Of course, can't say that I blame him
Last I spoke to him he declined to have anything to do with Aviation, or more specifically, with the local Aero Club.
Of course, can't say that I blame him
Thread Starter
"Cannot help thinking about driving a Mini around in the 70's"
Dr
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Bullethead
What was the minima there? No doubt the vis via the camera was not as good as in person, but that looked pretty cr@ppy to say the least
J
What was the minima there? No doubt the vis via the camera was not as good as in person, but that looked pretty cr@ppy to say the least
J
G'ay Jaba,
The MDA for the RW15 ILS at Cairns is 320' and all you need to see at the minima is the approach lights. You're right that the eyeball picture was better than the camera shows, but not much better. I started to pick up the approach lights as a dull orange glow about 50' above the minima and at minima the visual requirements were satisfied.
The aeroplane in front of us went around but we were lucky enough, as the showers were passing through, to get visual when we did.
Regards,
BH.
The MDA for the RW15 ILS at Cairns is 320' and all you need to see at the minima is the approach lights. You're right that the eyeball picture was better than the camera shows, but not much better. I started to pick up the approach lights as a dull orange glow about 50' above the minima and at minima the visual requirements were satisfied.
The aeroplane in front of us went around but we were lucky enough, as the showers were passing through, to get visual when we did.
Regards,
BH.