Out of retirement?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Out of retirement?
Hi All,
I've been out of the flying game for a few years now but with all this talk about 'pilot shortages' it's made me wonder whether I should throw my hat back into the ring.
It would mean the proverbial s/load of re-study, not to mention prob'ly the same in dollars combined with (if I got in as a regional FO) a paycut.
When I put it like that I think I must be crackers.
I do miss the feeling of having the machine set up on finals like it's on rails all the way down to touchdown though.
I am wondering whether there are some out there who may have already gotten back in after an extended absense.
Who are you with and what hoops did you have to jump through? Most importantly how much did it cost? (money is a real issue these days!)
Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post details here.
Regards
burna
I've been out of the flying game for a few years now but with all this talk about 'pilot shortages' it's made me wonder whether I should throw my hat back into the ring.
It would mean the proverbial s/load of re-study, not to mention prob'ly the same in dollars combined with (if I got in as a regional FO) a paycut.
When I put it like that I think I must be crackers.
I do miss the feeling of having the machine set up on finals like it's on rails all the way down to touchdown though.
I am wondering whether there are some out there who may have already gotten back in after an extended absense.
Who are you with and what hoops did you have to jump through? Most importantly how much did it cost? (money is a real issue these days!)
Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post details here.
Regards
burna
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Zoo
Posts: 335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Be interested to know the general response you got was - in the same boat, decided to at least get back in to Ultralights for fun, but wondering about taking a big step back in (and like yourself pay cut)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Western Australia
Age: 53
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hi burna
I too would be interested in the feedback you have got - can you PM me or gives us bit an idea of the conscensus out there.
I am 37, and about to crank it up shortly. Bit like you, bit worried about the money and time / for study. At the end of the day with all this supposed p[ilot shortage seems to be my time to have another crack.
Best of luck with it.
I too would be interested in the feedback you have got - can you PM me or gives us bit an idea of the conscensus out there.
I am 37, and about to crank it up shortly. Bit like you, bit worried about the money and time / for study. At the end of the day with all this supposed p[ilot shortage seems to be my time to have another crack.
Best of luck with it.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Sydney
Age: 61
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I too am following the yellow brick road again. Having a large mortgage with wife and kids make it very hard, but I'm hoping after spending all this money again some operator will take pity on me and hire me.
The problem a lot of us will find is we will have to take a pay cut initially until that better paid job comes along. Also do we have to relocate with the family to get that decent job.
Whether it's worth it or not will be seen, but if we don't do it now how will we know.
The problem a lot of us will find is we will have to take a pay cut initially until that better paid job comes along. Also do we have to relocate with the family to get that decent job.
Whether it's worth it or not will be seen, but if we don't do it now how will we know.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking forward to returning to Japan soon but in the meantime continuing the never ending search for a bad bottle of Red!
Age: 69
Posts: 2,974
Received 99 Likes
on
57 Posts
Well, I'm 53 and have been out of the industry for a few years but I'm going to have another go in a short while. Will have to do an initial issue IFR rating again as mine has been expired for over three years, and it won't be cheap!
However, Unlike some others I won't be risking a drop in income if I secure a flying job again. Anything in aviation pays better than what I'm currently doing!!!!
However, Unlike some others I won't be risking a drop in income if I secure a flying job again. Anything in aviation pays better than what I'm currently doing!!!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I made the initial post I put it in the wrong forum. The moderators just deleted it and it took 3 PMs and 2 emails to find out what had happened, so when they (the moderators) posted it in the correct forum it appeared at the bottom of page 2.
I didn't get very many responses as a result.
I won't go into specifics because these people responded to me via PM, so if they want to post publicly I'll leave that up to them.
The responses I did get seemed positive.
Age seems to be no longer a barrier and maybe even go in our favour. It used to be that if you were in your 30s you were over the hill, 'experience commensurate with age' and all that.
I think if you want to do it, now is the time. Older pilots or those with families are prob'ly less likely to bugger off and so may be more appealing. It also looks better for the passengers to see an older Capt rather than a 'whipper snapper' even if they are more experienced. It's all about appearances.
Pinky, I thought the same as you that I'd have to do a full initial CIR. I have just realised that the CAOs say that the test has to be at the initial rather than renewal standard. Whether that means it is harder or easier I don't know.
As for me, I would love to go back to flying. I am struggling to see how paying for all this re-training before having some sort of garanteed position makes any sense at all. I can't help but feel that I've paid for it once, why do I want to pay for it again?
In any other job, the employer would pay. Take ATC for example, an ATC applicant doesn't spend a small fortune on medicals, buying texts, studying exams etc etc before applying for the position. And when they are accepted into training they aren't paying for their endorsement.
Maybe it just a case that I don't want to fly badly enough to make such a financial sacrifice a second time.
I didn't get very many responses as a result.
I won't go into specifics because these people responded to me via PM, so if they want to post publicly I'll leave that up to them.
The responses I did get seemed positive.
Age seems to be no longer a barrier and maybe even go in our favour. It used to be that if you were in your 30s you were over the hill, 'experience commensurate with age' and all that.
I think if you want to do it, now is the time. Older pilots or those with families are prob'ly less likely to bugger off and so may be more appealing. It also looks better for the passengers to see an older Capt rather than a 'whipper snapper' even if they are more experienced. It's all about appearances.
Pinky, I thought the same as you that I'd have to do a full initial CIR. I have just realised that the CAOs say that the test has to be at the initial rather than renewal standard. Whether that means it is harder or easier I don't know.
As for me, I would love to go back to flying. I am struggling to see how paying for all this re-training before having some sort of garanteed position makes any sense at all. I can't help but feel that I've paid for it once, why do I want to pay for it again?
In any other job, the employer would pay. Take ATC for example, an ATC applicant doesn't spend a small fortune on medicals, buying texts, studying exams etc etc before applying for the position. And when they are accepted into training they aren't paying for their endorsement.
Maybe it just a case that I don't want to fly badly enough to make such a financial sacrifice a second time.
My two bob's worth. If you have been out of the game for a while, first become employable by renewing your instrument rating with a reputable school. Make sure that the school you are spending your money with will give you a performance/skills reference which will be respected by any prospective chief pilot. Try to find a school that will give you a bit of IFR twin flying after you get your rating back, so you can consolidate. If you are aiming at a jet or heavy turboprop, invest in simulator time. The longer you have been out of it, or the older you are, the more consolidation you need, even if you don't think so.
Don't wade in with an overblown c.v. offering all your check and training experience yatter yatter, just in case you are seen by the chief pilot as a threat. Be factual on the c.v. with what flying you have done, and what types you have flown as Captain or F/O. Don't try to disguise F/O time as Captain time. Big no no. At the interview, underplay your past. The cream quickly rises to the top anyway, and even quicker now the industry is short of good people.
Don't wade in with an overblown c.v. offering all your check and training experience yatter yatter, just in case you are seen by the chief pilot as a threat. Be factual on the c.v. with what flying you have done, and what types you have flown as Captain or F/O. Don't try to disguise F/O time as Captain time. Big no no. At the interview, underplay your past. The cream quickly rises to the top anyway, and even quicker now the industry is short of good people.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking forward to returning to Japan soon but in the meantime continuing the never ending search for a bad bottle of Red!
Age: 69
Posts: 2,974
Received 99 Likes
on
57 Posts
the test has to be at the initial rather than renewal standard
For those that have been out of the game for a while and their Instrument Rating has expired for more than twelve months, you “WILL” have to do the whole initial issue flight test again, not just a renewal flight test.
So unlike a renewal where you can do for example the ILS (which covers VOR) in a Cat B Synthetic training device and the NDB in the aircraft, for the initial issue you must do the lot in the aircraft and you must demonstrate all the approaches that will be endorsed on your licence, i.e. ILS, VOR, NDB, DME/GPS and RNAV/(GNSS). Like any initial issue flight test, you would have to be recommended for this flight test which I presume (not 100% sure) would involve a pre-licence flight test.
Civil Aviation Order 40.2.1 (Instrument ratings)
12.3 Where an instrument rating has expired for a period in excess of 12 months, an applicant may qualify for issue of a rating by passing the instrument rating test applicable to the initial issue of an instrument rating.
12.3 Where an instrument rating has expired for a period in excess of 12 months, an applicant may qualify for issue of a rating by passing the instrument rating test applicable to the initial issue of an instrument rating.
If the rating has lapsed for more than a year I think you can still do the test in a zero flight time simulator. You would probably have to be endorsed on that type, but I am sure some B737 guys who had been out of flying for several years have got away with just doing simulator in recent times. Standing by to be corrected. Anyone out there from CASA with the good oil?
Mach E Avelli
Initial issue flight tests can be done in a Cat D synthetic training device but at prices up to $1000.00 per hour it is probably cheaper to just hire a light twin and do it in that, especially if you are paying for it yourself. Most synthetic training devices in GA though are Cat B which are generally generic and can only be used for renewals, currency and some of the initial training. A good peruse through CAO 40.2.1 will reveal all.
Initial issue flight tests can be done in a Cat D synthetic training device but at prices up to $1000.00 per hour it is probably cheaper to just hire a light twin and do it in that, especially if you are paying for it yourself. Most synthetic training devices in GA though are Cat B which are generally generic and can only be used for renewals, currency and some of the initial training. A good peruse through CAO 40.2.1 will reveal all.
Thinking of renewving my instructor rating. Anybody gone down that road, after many years out of the industry? I wonder how hard it would be, to get up to speed. Total time about 5400 and 480 instructing, many moons ago.
i was thinking of Johnstone's in Port Macquarie.
i was thinking of Johnstone's in Port Macquarie.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oz
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We're crazy, but in a good way
Hi pinky... I'll copy and paste my response to burna.
I left commercial flying 24 years ago, mainly due to an unsupportive woman who hated the idea of me going back flying... then along came a family..etc Anyway, that relationship ended 3 years ago and I became free to pursue flying again. The biggest plane I'd flown was a nomad and the majority of my flying time was in PNG. uumm.. 5000 hours total. Also I hadn't completely given up flying.. now and again over the years I had done a bit... I updated my SCPL to an ATPL.. which was only an administrative thing btw. ie a little private flying.
I organised microsoft flight simulator and bought some pedals, a yoke and a throttle quadrant. That all cost about $800. I flew that till I had regained my scan and situational awareness skills. I flew that thing A LOT.
In December 2007, I revalidated my licence with a medical.. and woe is me, when you are 53 the extra bits they put you thru really suck. These days they seem very concerned about BMI and cardiac stress tests.
Purchased the AIP from Airservices. Hit the books very hard. Was very rusty about "when you can descend below lsalt" etc... so took a while but got that in order.. those books cost around $300.
In January this year I went to a flying school I felt comfy with and renewed my instrument rating, which is not a "class 1" any more but a "command/multi-engine". Same thing. I used a duchess and it cost around $370 per hour. I did a 3 hour training flight with an instructor and a 3 hour flight test the next day (had to be an initial). While we were taxying in I got offered a casual job on the spot, servicing a contract they had. I sensed then that the job market was different to the one I had known.
At the flying school there were 2 other guys in their 40's.. both ex commercial pilots.. who were also renewing their ratings... lured a bit by all this talk of "pilot shortage".
A week after the rating test and around 2 weeks ago Airlines PNG advertised for pilots... a bit premature for me as I wanted to get a few more current hours.. but what the hey.. I applied anyway. I went for the interview on Wednesday and got offered an FO slot on a dash 8 thursday... yesterday... and based in Cairns!!
All I can say is, if flying is in your blood you will never be truly happy till you're doing it. For me its been like "coming home". I love it. And as a bonus it really looks like the industry is swinging a bit towards reasonable job prospects.
Hope I've been helpful.
I left commercial flying 24 years ago, mainly due to an unsupportive woman who hated the idea of me going back flying... then along came a family..etc Anyway, that relationship ended 3 years ago and I became free to pursue flying again. The biggest plane I'd flown was a nomad and the majority of my flying time was in PNG. uumm.. 5000 hours total. Also I hadn't completely given up flying.. now and again over the years I had done a bit... I updated my SCPL to an ATPL.. which was only an administrative thing btw. ie a little private flying.
I organised microsoft flight simulator and bought some pedals, a yoke and a throttle quadrant. That all cost about $800. I flew that till I had regained my scan and situational awareness skills. I flew that thing A LOT.
In December 2007, I revalidated my licence with a medical.. and woe is me, when you are 53 the extra bits they put you thru really suck. These days they seem very concerned about BMI and cardiac stress tests.
Purchased the AIP from Airservices. Hit the books very hard. Was very rusty about "when you can descend below lsalt" etc... so took a while but got that in order.. those books cost around $300.
In January this year I went to a flying school I felt comfy with and renewed my instrument rating, which is not a "class 1" any more but a "command/multi-engine". Same thing. I used a duchess and it cost around $370 per hour. I did a 3 hour training flight with an instructor and a 3 hour flight test the next day (had to be an initial). While we were taxying in I got offered a casual job on the spot, servicing a contract they had. I sensed then that the job market was different to the one I had known.
At the flying school there were 2 other guys in their 40's.. both ex commercial pilots.. who were also renewing their ratings... lured a bit by all this talk of "pilot shortage".
A week after the rating test and around 2 weeks ago Airlines PNG advertised for pilots... a bit premature for me as I wanted to get a few more current hours.. but what the hey.. I applied anyway. I went for the interview on Wednesday and got offered an FO slot on a dash 8 thursday... yesterday... and based in Cairns!!
All I can say is, if flying is in your blood you will never be truly happy till you're doing it. For me its been like "coming home". I love it. And as a bonus it really looks like the industry is swinging a bit towards reasonable job prospects.
Hope I've been helpful.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: FNQ
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I dont know whats being passed around in the PM's but I believe operators like QFLINK would be VERY interested in guys with some experience but a little rusty applying. Could even save you some $$$ on that renewel!! Depends what your after and where you wanna go I guess.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: YSSY
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
coolchange - congrats, all the best 
You are so right, once the smell of Avgas is in your veins, no matter how many years pass, it's still there.
Good to know there is someone else on this forum old enough to know what a 'Class 1' was.
Cheers,
LB
You are so right, once the smell of Avgas is in your veins, no matter how many years pass, it's still there.
Good to know there is someone else on this forum old enough to know what a 'Class 1' was.
Cheers,
LB
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oz
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hey tinpis. I believed the question was about whether it was worthwhile to come out of a "flying" retirement in the current job market... and what the costs might be. Just giving my experiences.
My pidgin english is a bit rusty.. but does your handle have anything to do with tinned fish.... and do/did you fly in PNG? If you were thinking of coming out of retirement and had some PNG experience I would say DO IT. Both Airlines PNG and Air Nuigini are recruiting heavily, and its only my opinion but I believe their entry requirements may be more guidelines than rules these days. Airlines PNG offer tours of 3 weeks on/3 weeks off for a Moresby base. Air Nuigini dont currently offer tours but thats this month.. maybe different a few months from now.
Having said that. I dunno how sensible it may be to wait too long.. these things are cyclic at the best of times.. and if the american economy takes a dive then the aviation job market will be one of the first things to take a hit.... and the heavy recruitment plans the majors have for the next 18 months would also come to a screaming halt.
Cheers CC
My pidgin english is a bit rusty.. but does your handle have anything to do with tinned fish.... and do/did you fly in PNG? If you were thinking of coming out of retirement and had some PNG experience I would say DO IT. Both Airlines PNG and Air Nuigini are recruiting heavily, and its only my opinion but I believe their entry requirements may be more guidelines than rules these days. Airlines PNG offer tours of 3 weeks on/3 weeks off for a Moresby base. Air Nuigini dont currently offer tours but thats this month.. maybe different a few months from now.
Having said that. I dunno how sensible it may be to wait too long.. these things are cyclic at the best of times.. and if the american economy takes a dive then the aviation job market will be one of the first things to take a hit.... and the heavy recruitment plans the majors have for the next 18 months would also come to a screaming halt.
Cheers CC
