Pilot Shortage my ar**e
Thread Starter
Pilot Shortage my ar**e
There's a pilot shortage huh???, just read that QLink is cutting back on Armidale flights due lack of crew.
Bollocks!!!
There's heaps of talented, capable, competent drivers out there with logbooks full of quality hours that arent getting a look in, due to stupid criteria in interviews, psyche/personailty tests.
Airlines recruit only pilots, not bloody astronauts.
P.S.........Regarding the posts below, I have not applied, or been knocked back. Only used QFLink as an example. Same could apply for REX, VB, QF et al.
Bollocks!!!
There's heaps of talented, capable, competent drivers out there with logbooks full of quality hours that arent getting a look in, due to stupid criteria in interviews, psyche/personailty tests.
Airlines recruit only pilots, not bloody astronauts.
P.S.........Regarding the posts below, I have not applied, or been knocked back. Only used QFLink as an example. Same could apply for REX, VB, QF et al.
Last edited by Guptar; 21st Jan 2008 at 02:10.
Yeah understand your frustration, know two guys who were pretty switched on, with alot of IFR hours get knock back by QantasLink. Given they are facing a pilot shortage I really think they need to review the way they recruit.
Both those guys ended up flying jets one for a Qantas group company!
My only guess is that they don't want guys who are too good as they might just leave quickly!
Both those guys ended up flying jets one for a Qantas group company!
My only guess is that they don't want guys who are too good as they might just leave quickly!
Ohhhh, somebody looks like they got knocked back by QantasLink, 
.....
Get over it and find another job. If they have to cut back routes because of lack of crew, that's their own problem.
morno
.....Get over it and find another job. If they have to cut back routes because of lack of crew, that's their own problem.
morno
They're not short of Recruits (not yet anyway!!) but you can only train at a certain rate. When large numbers of your experienced guys leave, you can only play catch up for so long.
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There is no pilot shortage in Australia.
You are quite correct.
All the majors have many more well qualified applicants than they could ever need in the foreseeable future.
There is however a shortage of people that are desperate enough to work for nothing or close to it that has been offered in recent years in GA or the regionals.
This is a good start I guess.
The state of economies around the world will decide if this flows through to the majors or not in the near future.
You are quite correct.
All the majors have many more well qualified applicants than they could ever need in the foreseeable future.
There is however a shortage of people that are desperate enough to work for nothing or close to it that has been offered in recent years in GA or the regionals.
This is a good start I guess.
The state of economies around the world will decide if this flows through to the majors or not in the near future.
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I'm with you 'nev', I know of a few well qualified guys who missed out on the regionals over the years & eventually went into mainstream &/or corporate. I happen to agree there isn't a shortage of pilots as such just a shortage of ones that 'fit' some of the employers requirements, however odd they may seem !
CW
CW
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Some people need a bit of perspective on the psych testing/interviews.
Unfortunately for some people, the purpose of the tests is not to ensure that every applicant that would be able to do the job to standard gets through the gate - it is to ensure that everyone who gets through the gate can do the job to standard!
Sadly, airlines do not exist simply to provide a career path for pilots and they have no obligation to search for every single person who could do the job - to achieve this would require much more complicated and rigorous testing (which would cost more and produce a marginal number of additional candidates).
Ultimately this means that there will be a set of applicants who are more than capable of the task (and in some cases would be better pilots than others who do get through) but which the testing system eliminates. A qualified psych would give a better explanation, but the bottom line for the company is - people who do better than X on the testing rarely fail cyclics; those below X are substantially more likely to fail and pose a training risk.
I am genuinely sympathetic to pilots who don't get through the hoops - I know several people I consider to be excellent operators (and more experienced than me) who didn't get the job I have.
Having said that the system does produce the desired result for the company so I say this to people who persist in whinging about "stupid criteria":
Design a cost effective testing system that proves beyond reasonable doubt that you are a suitable applicant - then sell it to the airlines. If the pilot shortage finally hits the big boys, you'll make a lot more money out of it than you would as an FO.
I look forward to someone coming up with the pilot selection system of the future.
Icarus
Unfortunately for some people, the purpose of the tests is not to ensure that every applicant that would be able to do the job to standard gets through the gate - it is to ensure that everyone who gets through the gate can do the job to standard!
Sadly, airlines do not exist simply to provide a career path for pilots and they have no obligation to search for every single person who could do the job - to achieve this would require much more complicated and rigorous testing (which would cost more and produce a marginal number of additional candidates).
Ultimately this means that there will be a set of applicants who are more than capable of the task (and in some cases would be better pilots than others who do get through) but which the testing system eliminates. A qualified psych would give a better explanation, but the bottom line for the company is - people who do better than X on the testing rarely fail cyclics; those below X are substantially more likely to fail and pose a training risk.
I am genuinely sympathetic to pilots who don't get through the hoops - I know several people I consider to be excellent operators (and more experienced than me) who didn't get the job I have.
Having said that the system does produce the desired result for the company so I say this to people who persist in whinging about "stupid criteria":
Design a cost effective testing system that proves beyond reasonable doubt that you are a suitable applicant - then sell it to the airlines. If the pilot shortage finally hits the big boys, you'll make a lot more money out of it than you would as an FO.
I look forward to someone coming up with the pilot selection system of the future.
Icarus
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So by passing a pysch test you are more likely to pass a cyclic? I would have thought thats why they do a Sim check to establish ones flying skills and a interview to establish ones attitude, work ethic, etc and all the other stuff
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A couple of things:
Firstly, the sim check tests basic instrument flying and your ability to learn and adapt to new situations. Cyclics test a huge amount more than that. Also, a sim check is a subjective assessment, whereas a psych test is objective.
Second - this is not a direct relationship, it's just a matter of statistics. Your result on a particular test may not be directly related to flying performance, but the statistics say that if you fail a test, there is a certain higher likelihood that you won't be successful down the track.
The company then determines what the acceptable risk is and eliminates those who fall outside the criteria.
Firstly, the sim check tests basic instrument flying and your ability to learn and adapt to new situations. Cyclics test a huge amount more than that. Also, a sim check is a subjective assessment, whereas a psych test is objective.
Second - this is not a direct relationship, it's just a matter of statistics. Your result on a particular test may not be directly related to flying performance, but the statistics say that if you fail a test, there is a certain higher likelihood that you won't be successful down the track.
The company then determines what the acceptable risk is and eliminates those who fall outside the criteria.
psyche tests objective??
Next you will be telling me that CASA is there to help the industry.
Talking to a friend of mine tonight who is a psychology professor in Sydney, he was saying that they have foistered the biggest con on all industries, its all about creating the need for.....psychologists and consultants. He freely admits that.
Further more, he said that he can creat a psych test that proves thatall of us are left handed, cross-dressing homosexuals with latent axe murderer tendencies.
Talking to a friend of mine tonight who is a psychology professor in Sydney, he was saying that they have foistered the biggest con on all industries, its all about creating the need for.....psychologists and consultants. He freely admits that.
Further more, he said that he can creat a psych test that proves thatall of us are left handed, cross-dressing homosexuals with latent axe murderer tendencies.
Psyche tests objective??
Next you will be telling me that CASA is there to help the industry.
Talking to a friend of mine tonight who is a psychology professor in Sydney, he was saying that they have foistered the biggest con on all industries, its all about creating the need for.....psychologists and consultants. He freely admits that.
Further more, he said that he can creat a psych test that proves thatall of us are left handed, cross-dressing homosexuals with latent axe murderer tendencies.
Talking to a friend of mine tonight who is a psychology professor in Sydney, he was saying that they have foistered the biggest con on all industries, its all about creating the need for.....psychologists and consultants. He freely admits that.
Further more, he said that he can creat a psych test that proves thatall of us are left handed, cross-dressing homosexuals with latent axe murderer tendencies.
Moderator
Point made.
Thread drift!
Tail Wheel
Thread drift!
Tail Wheel
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why close a thread?
"Tail wheel" I am at a loss as to why you closed the thread pertaining to "pilot shortage my A**E?. Am keen to understand what criteria was breached esspecially seeing as the particular thread unlike others still running in here is probably the most relevant to new hopefuls that I've read thus far! Sure there will always be 'hot heads' in here we've wittnessed that many times but the few threads that got thru before yr heavy hand didn't to me seem offensive in any way?
Just an expalination from yr side will do tnxs, am sure I'm talking for a few in here, don't shoot the messenger !
CW
Just an expalination from yr side will do tnxs, am sure I'm talking for a few in here, don't shoot the messenger !
CW
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Capt., he gave his reason in the comments at the end of the closed thread. There has been a fair bit of comment from the mods lately about their need to clean things up a bit.
Have you read the sticky at the top of the page "The Ten Thingies"?
Cheers,
ABX
Have you read the sticky at the top of the page "The Ten Thingies"?
Cheers,
ABX
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I agree Capt W. I don't see who was harmed by this thread's existence, and while it may have encountered a slight thread drift, I feel it was relevant enough.
I understand the mods have a tough and loveless job, though am dumbfounded in this instance.
I understand the mods have a tough and loveless job, though am dumbfounded in this instance.
Moderator
Threads questioning Mod actions are automatically closed or removed, without comment. There are other more appropriate means of communication with Mods, including PMs and email.
However, on this occasion I've merged the threads and comment as follows:
Subject: "Pilot Shortage my ar**s"
Post # 1: "There's a pilot shortage huh???"
Post # 15: "Psyche test objective??"
I closed this thread as it was obvious Guptar has his opinion and made his point, the next few posts are relevant, then the thread wandered off into totally unrelated territory.
If you wish to discuss psyche testing, why not start a new thread?
It is very frustrating for viewers to open a thread in which they are interested, only to find the thread full of irrelevant one liners, leading to total thread drift and an unrelated topic.
And even more frustrating to Mods who must read virtually every post, in the very limited time thay have available to Proon. We simply do not have the time to split out posts and move to a more relevant thread topic.
On January 19, Danny mentioned:
The Dunnunda Forums account for around 14% of that traffic - which results in a very significant number of posts for Mods to read and possibly edit. Sometimes a thread goes so far off track it is simply easier to close, rather than try to edit.
Moderating PPRuNe is often a thankless task. Decisions are on occasion perhaps, subjective. Mods are subject to abuse - first email I received this morning contained only two words: "F--- Y---". That literacy challenged user is no longer with us!
There are rules and a standard to be maintained. Mods would appreciate your help and cooperation.
Tail Wheel
However, on this occasion I've merged the threads and comment as follows:
Subject: "Pilot Shortage my ar**s"
Post # 1: "There's a pilot shortage huh???"
Post # 15: "Psyche test objective??"
I closed this thread as it was obvious Guptar has his opinion and made his point, the next few posts are relevant, then the thread wandered off into totally unrelated territory.
If you wish to discuss psyche testing, why not start a new thread?
It is very frustrating for viewers to open a thread in which they are interested, only to find the thread full of irrelevant one liners, leading to total thread drift and an unrelated topic.
And even more frustrating to Mods who must read virtually every post, in the very limited time thay have available to Proon. We simply do not have the time to split out posts and move to a more relevant thread topic.
On January 19, Danny mentioned:
So far today (2225Z) we've had over 23,000 registered visitors and over 1,000 new registrations!!!! I'll know how many the total visits is later tomorrow but I can tell you that we have shown over 600,000 pages and the system is predicting we will have shown about 700,000 by midnight. Yesterday we had just under 60,000 unique visitors from a norm of about 35,000. That was over 120,000 visits in total. By extrapolation, I am fairly sure that the numbers will show we had over 80,000 unique visitors in total today. Today that'll be around 160,000 visits in total.
Moderating PPRuNe is often a thankless task. Decisions are on occasion perhaps, subjective. Mods are subject to abuse - first email I received this morning contained only two words: "F--- Y---". That literacy challenged user is no longer with us!
There are rules and a standard to be maintained. Mods would appreciate your help and cooperation.
Tail Wheel
Fair enough Tailwheel.
Now, FP_Ace said,
"bullsh*t that's just and excuse to cut out unprofitable routes.Well it was for R*x anyway"
I wouldn't be so sure of that mate. REX slashed the unprofitable routes years ago, and they were ruthless about it. In the last 6 months all the reductions in services have been the result of not enough crew to service the schedule.
The tradgedy, is that the services cut this year will in fact be money makers. The decision on which regional centres keep their service or at the very least suffer the least reduction, will ultimately depend on their level of profitability!
The real losers in all of this will be the traveling public.
Now, FP_Ace said,
"bullsh*t that's just and excuse to cut out unprofitable routes.Well it was for R*x anyway"
I wouldn't be so sure of that mate. REX slashed the unprofitable routes years ago, and they were ruthless about it. In the last 6 months all the reductions in services have been the result of not enough crew to service the schedule.
The tradgedy, is that the services cut this year will in fact be money makers. The decision on which regional centres keep their service or at the very least suffer the least reduction, will ultimately depend on their level of profitability!
The real losers in all of this will be the traveling public.