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Could anyone help with the name of a reputable 4WD operator / tour operator out of Pt Moresby to take a group of us to various points on the Kakoda Track during Aug Sept.....We plan to fly as a group from Aust...Daru...Pt Moresby we are unsure of numbers at the moment but it seems to be about 20 people and we would like about 5 days of prearranged walks and drives
Secondly where would you suggest for nice but not top dollar accomodation in Pt Moresby and Horn Isl / Thursday Isl
Thanks in anticipation.........Scmacko
Secondly where would you suggest for nice but not top dollar accomodation in Pt Moresby and Horn Isl / Thursday Isl
Thanks in anticipation.........Scmacko
Have a look at this www.kokodatrail.com.au
They should be able to help you out and give you a good deal.
They should be able to help you out and give you a good deal.
Grandpa Aerotart
I think your perception of PNG, The Kokoda trail or Port Moresby is somewhat lacking.
1/. 4wds cannot get up the kokoda trail to any extent.
2/. Accom in Moresby is very limited and that which is safe is expensive.
I would suggest the best hotels that would be of use are those at the airport...The Airways and Gateway...although there are others that are between 10 and 20 minutes from the airport that are equally good...noe are cheap.
If you want to see the Kokoda trail in any way shape or form, let alone the interesting bits, you will need to charter an aircraft to fly you into some of the villages along the trail where the battles took place...Menari, Kagi, Efogi etc and then down the northern side of the Owen Stanley Ranges to the village of Kokoda itself.
Airlines of PNG (use to be Milne Bay Air) would be the people to speak to about chartering a Twin Otter for a 1/2 day/full day to take 20 odd people on such a flight.
Such a flight would be a 'life highlight' not just a trip highlight. Having landed in these villages you can then walk along the real trail for 20 minutes or so and see what it was really like...you will see log bridges etc and there is plenty of old rusted war stuff in the bush around...some still dangerous to pick up.
From Moresby airport to the top of the ranges, the actual Kokoda Gap is about 35nm and all those battlegrounds/villages are within that 35nm. From Kagi across to Kokoda through the gap is about 15 minutes flying time and with the right pilot and weather is memorable as you dive down the george past Isurava etc to Kokoda.
To walk the trail...which is the ONLY alternative is about 7 days and only for the extremely fit.
1/. 4wds cannot get up the kokoda trail to any extent.
2/. Accom in Moresby is very limited and that which is safe is expensive.
I would suggest the best hotels that would be of use are those at the airport...The Airways and Gateway...although there are others that are between 10 and 20 minutes from the airport that are equally good...noe are cheap.
If you want to see the Kokoda trail in any way shape or form, let alone the interesting bits, you will need to charter an aircraft to fly you into some of the villages along the trail where the battles took place...Menari, Kagi, Efogi etc and then down the northern side of the Owen Stanley Ranges to the village of Kokoda itself.
Airlines of PNG (use to be Milne Bay Air) would be the people to speak to about chartering a Twin Otter for a 1/2 day/full day to take 20 odd people on such a flight.
Such a flight would be a 'life highlight' not just a trip highlight. Having landed in these villages you can then walk along the real trail for 20 minutes or so and see what it was really like...you will see log bridges etc and there is plenty of old rusted war stuff in the bush around...some still dangerous to pick up.
From Moresby airport to the top of the ranges, the actual Kokoda Gap is about 35nm and all those battlegrounds/villages are within that 35nm. From Kagi across to Kokoda through the gap is about 15 minutes flying time and with the right pilot and weather is memorable as you dive down the george past Isurava etc to Kokoda.
To walk the trail...which is the ONLY alternative is about 7 days and only for the extremely fit.
As CC said:
In fact, they can not get up the Kokoda Trail at all, only to Owens Corner at the Moresby end of the Trail. And you don't need 4WDs to get to that point.
From there on it is by foot, or charter an aircraft and fly into the strips along the Trail.
4wds cannot get up the kokoda trail to any extent.
From there on it is by foot, or charter an aircraft and fly into the strips along the Trail.
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Just a thought.
Where would you leave a gaggle of rented aircraft at POM?
Where would you leave a gaggle of rented aircraft at POM?
Up near the Aero Club
Would you be likely to find them still there when you got back?
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Thanks guys for the help so far, our plan is simple, doable and time efficient for about 20 people, 8 aircraft, it is made up as follows;
A. Fly Adelaide ..Mt Isa..Horn Isl
B. Fly Horn Isl..Daru..Pt Moresby
C. Local PNG charter Pt Moresby..Kakoda
D. 6 days, 5 nights on the track coming out at Efogi or after Brigade Hill
E. Local PNG charter Efogi..Pt Moresby
F. One day sight seeing
G. Fly Pt Moresby..Daru..Horn Isl
H. Fly Horn Isl..<Mt Isa..Adelaide
All private pilots varying experience some VFR some IFR some singles some twins some problems may occur some may not but not a bad two weeks anyway
Thanks Schmacko
A. Fly Adelaide ..Mt Isa..Horn Isl
B. Fly Horn Isl..Daru..Pt Moresby
C. Local PNG charter Pt Moresby..Kakoda
D. 6 days, 5 nights on the track coming out at Efogi or after Brigade Hill
E. Local PNG charter Efogi..Pt Moresby
F. One day sight seeing
G. Fly Pt Moresby..Daru..Horn Isl
H. Fly Horn Isl..<Mt Isa..Adelaide
All private pilots varying experience some VFR some IFR some singles some twins some problems may occur some may not but not a bad two weeks anyway
Thanks Schmacko
To be quite honest, I don't think there would be any problem leaving hired GA aircrft at Jacksons. Just make sure the doors are locked to prevent the airport security guards from sleeping in them. Up outside the Aero Club would be the safest place. I would also throw the Protect Security guards up by the gate at Pacific Helicopters 100 bucks to keep an eye on the machines. In the 12 years that I have been in PNG I have never seen any aircraft tampered with, as most of the locals use aircraft as public transport to get around the country.
Grandpa Aerotart
What time of year?
Winter time means SE trade winds and is wet season in the Gulf of Papua/Western Province...things might be challenging weather wise between Horn/Daru Is and Kerema...once at Kerema, or a little further SE - say 10nm) heading SE along the coast to Port Moresby should be easy.
While some part of each day is often safely flyable in the wet season (if it's crap in the morning the afternoon is often nice and visa versa) it can also often mean weeks of very low cloud and rain.
You may well find if that is the case when you arrive in Daru that flying direct Kerema (best part of 200nm over water from memory) will be possible in good weather (once decently east of Daru itself...say 30nm) whereas tracking coastal might be 200'-400' cloud base and vis < 1nm in rain....so perhaps the SE VFR pilots (particularly) should consider a longish overwater leg as a possible feature of the trip.
There is an Oil/Gas pipeline platform where it is onloaded into ships about 1/2 way across...which means boats and helicopters..might be a REAL good idea to contact the company prior to the trip and get there VHF frequency in case someone force lands ditches in the Gulf.
The multi IFR members of your troupe should at least be able to reccy weather ahead for the SE VFR members which is great.
I'll be a little amazed if you strike VFR weather both ways across the Gulf Provinces in summer.
Winter time means SE trade winds and is wet season in the Gulf of Papua/Western Province...things might be challenging weather wise between Horn/Daru Is and Kerema...once at Kerema, or a little further SE - say 10nm) heading SE along the coast to Port Moresby should be easy.
While some part of each day is often safely flyable in the wet season (if it's crap in the morning the afternoon is often nice and visa versa) it can also often mean weeks of very low cloud and rain.
You may well find if that is the case when you arrive in Daru that flying direct Kerema (best part of 200nm over water from memory) will be possible in good weather (once decently east of Daru itself...say 30nm) whereas tracking coastal might be 200'-400' cloud base and vis < 1nm in rain....so perhaps the SE VFR pilots (particularly) should consider a longish overwater leg as a possible feature of the trip.
There is an Oil/Gas pipeline platform where it is onloaded into ships about 1/2 way across...which means boats and helicopters..might be a REAL good idea to contact the company prior to the trip and get there VHF frequency in case someone force lands ditches in the Gulf.
The multi IFR members of your troupe should at least be able to reccy weather ahead for the SE VFR members which is great.
I'll be a little amazed if you strike VFR weather both ways across the Gulf Provinces in summer.
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CC Thanks for your comments, we're trying to sqeeze a bet both ways and complete the trip early September (school holidays) also seems best bet for weather, Daru is a flyby point so remaining 20 or 30 nm SE is also ok some will no doubt be brave and fly direct Horn..Pt Moresby we'll see
Schmacko
Schmacko
PNG Civil Aviation didn't use to be so keen on single engine over water flights e.g. POM-CNS (probably because they don't want to foot the SAR bill) but something you may want to consider and investigate in your planning.
Tinpis please check your pms
Tinpis please check your pms
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Accommodation @ Horn
The Gateway on Horn Island is pretty good value for group bookings. Includes a breakfast, and the owners will pick up / drop off from the airfield in their minibuses. Only a few minutes walk to the wharf, if you wanna sneak over to TI for a look.
The Baffler
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Food for Thought
Word on the street is avgas is pretty hard to get in PNG. I imagine a hop from YBCS to AYPY could be out of range of most private machines.
The wx can be stink and ATC can be very hard to understand.
If you go, please plan it properly. Ask people with PNG experience, even on these boards. There is reason why some pilots became old pilots in PNG.
Qwerty
The wx can be stink and ATC can be very hard to understand.
If you go, please plan it properly. Ask people with PNG experience, even on these boards. There is reason why some pilots became old pilots in PNG.
Qwerty
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Schmacko - if I were you I would do customs in Daru. It would be easier (if you pre-arrange it). If you take some bags of vegetables to 'declare' and leave in their hands (delicacy change from sak sak and fish)that should oil the machinery a bit also but you didn't hear it from me okay!
The other advantage of that is your guys will then be able to freely land at the coastal spots of Kikori, Baimuru, Kerema etc. if they need to en-route to Moresby. Might be a nice thought for the VFR guys if they want to put down and wait out some weather. Another advantage would be that you could pre-arrange AVGAS fuel at Kawito (near Balimo) if you don't have the legs for Moresby. I can give you contacts for MAF who have a base with fuel drums and an agent who could POSSIBLY help you out.
I take it that you also understand that PNG requires mandatory reporting and therefore HF radios?
On the weather front just be aware that September is approaching the 'change of seasons' time where these days it seems you can get weather from either pattern or both (basically anything). For the VFR guys, if there is extensive layer cloud in the gulf (winter pattern) it often pays to get on top where you can be in the clear at 8 or 9 thousand rather than fighting it at 500.' Don't stress, at least where you guys are going you won't be flying around any of the big stuff when it comes to PNG's notorious terrain!
Let me know if you want the data for some of the coastal strips to plug into your GPS's (some won't be in the internal databases - I guarantee).
Oh, and SHELL do the AVGAS at Moresby via tanker cart. Once again if you need their VHF or phone numbers we can help you out there. Just remember it is back to the good old days - don't expect to swipe a carnet card for it and don't expect quick service!
Aeroclub apron down the far SE end is the way to go as others have said. Just remember to have your ASICs as the security can get quite picky about letting you in and out sometimes.
You've probably heard enough from me
Enjoy the trip!
The other advantage of that is your guys will then be able to freely land at the coastal spots of Kikori, Baimuru, Kerema etc. if they need to en-route to Moresby. Might be a nice thought for the VFR guys if they want to put down and wait out some weather. Another advantage would be that you could pre-arrange AVGAS fuel at Kawito (near Balimo) if you don't have the legs for Moresby. I can give you contacts for MAF who have a base with fuel drums and an agent who could POSSIBLY help you out.
I take it that you also understand that PNG requires mandatory reporting and therefore HF radios?
On the weather front just be aware that September is approaching the 'change of seasons' time where these days it seems you can get weather from either pattern or both (basically anything). For the VFR guys, if there is extensive layer cloud in the gulf (winter pattern) it often pays to get on top where you can be in the clear at 8 or 9 thousand rather than fighting it at 500.' Don't stress, at least where you guys are going you won't be flying around any of the big stuff when it comes to PNG's notorious terrain!
Let me know if you want the data for some of the coastal strips to plug into your GPS's (some won't be in the internal databases - I guarantee).
Oh, and SHELL do the AVGAS at Moresby via tanker cart. Once again if you need their VHF or phone numbers we can help you out there. Just remember it is back to the good old days - don't expect to swipe a carnet card for it and don't expect quick service!
Aeroclub apron down the far SE end is the way to go as others have said. Just remember to have your ASICs as the security can get quite picky about letting you in and out sometimes.
You've probably heard enough from me
Enjoy the trip!
Last edited by Captain Nomad; 7th Jan 2008 at 09:53.
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..............'tinpis' that's funny & a bit rough, but how about we split the sale profits of their cars, say after a couple of weeks?
I know a few shonky car dealers who would love to sell pilots cars............you know the real expensive ones everyone believes we pilots own!!!...........holden barinas, suzy swifts, mitsu colts, ford escorts & any of the old rusty Euro crap !!!!!..........then again the scrap metal merchants might like that lot more!.......have you seen the price some of these old ****eheaps are getting these days !..unreal !
CW
& a bit rough, but how about we split the sale profits of their cars, say after a couple of weeks?I know a few shonky car dealers who would love to sell pilots cars............you know the real expensive ones everyone believes we pilots own!!!...........holden barinas, suzy swifts, mitsu colts, ford escorts & any of the old rusty Euro crap !!!!!..........then again the scrap metal merchants might like that lot more!
.......have you seen the price some of these old ****eheaps are getting these days !..unreal !CW
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Sounds more like a bunch of cashed-up private pilots to me. I reckon your chances of scoring something nice would be much greater than the pickings from a working commercial pilot! 
Let us know what turns up and maybe we can have an auction!
Yeah, I know - bad taste... Okay, I've had my fun now...
Let us know what turns up and maybe we can have an auction!
Yeah, I know - bad taste... Okay, I've had my fun now...
Grandpa Aerotart
Nomad I can't imagine Balimo or Kawito being of any use but Kerema might be...Kikori?...if the weather is marginal it will be worse at Kikori due to the Aird Hills just a few nm east of the strip. If the weather is marginal Baimuru is usually too soft for anything other than big tyres. Is Phil Toidervan still in Baimuru?
Honestly my best advice would be to stay coastal and not even venture the short distance in from the coast to these strips. It aint like it used to be with John Senior at KIK and Phil at BMU.
Tin I'd rather face the sharks offshore than the crocs in the coastal rivers and swamps...although there are a few stretches of mudflat/beach to 'land' on across the Gulf of Papua
Honestly my best advice would be to stay coastal and not even venture the short distance in from the coast to these strips. It aint like it used to be with John Senior at KIK and Phil at BMU.
Tin I'd rather face the sharks offshore than the crocs in the coastal rivers and swamps...although there are a few stretches of mudflat/beach to 'land' on across the Gulf of Papua