Spatial Disorientation article in Sunday Age
No, theres just 2 levers instead of one. Simply twist and pull as part of your shutdown checks in a forced landing (allow slightly more time in a biplanes as there is an extra lever for the upper wing release module), and then you'll be safe from fire as, well, a plane with no wings
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Dr. Newman's report is here:
http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/2007/B20070063.aspx
"an acceptable risk" - I guess that depends on your point of view. I'm not sure the Ray family (amongst many others I'm sure) would agree. If this article was written on 7th July 2005 I wonder if the Mt. Hotham "accident" would have occurred at all.
Obviously it is not always totally "manageable", and perhaps it's a good thing that passengers are aware of these various phenomena - particularly if they have some ability to influence a pilot?
Di
http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/2007/B20070063.aspx
Nobody is denying that SD exists but it is manageable & therefore an acceptable risk.
Obviously it is not always totally "manageable", and perhaps it's a good thing that passengers are aware of these various phenomena - particularly if they have some ability to influence a pilot?
Di
Last edited by Diatryma; 17th Dec 2007 at 03:14.
When you live....
Ummm, Diatryma, you're not serious surely?
The risk is managed through such concepts as 'following procedures', 'flying the approach as depicted', 'flying above the terrain unless in the circling area'. Using such novel concepts results in 'acceptable risks'.
Have you been to a surgeon recently? These days they list every single possible side effect that has ever been observed or has been predicted to observe before getting you to sign your life away. Do you propose that in future, all passengers must demonstrate their ATPL exam results before being allowed to board so that they are aware of the risks that the pilot is exposed to but have been deemed acceptable?
Oversimplified scaremongering crap such as this article does nothing to inform or prepare passengers for the flight they are about to take. My theory on why air and rail accidents recieve so much coverage is quite simply because the average joe, when boarding, has no idea how to actually drive the plane/train to the desitination and so accepts that responsibility for their safety is no longer in their hands. Apart from the 'there is a very small chance we may crash', there is no intermediate level of knowledge that the punters can have which will let them accurately judge what is going on until you reach, say, an ATPL or equivilent.
UTR.
The risk is managed through such concepts as 'following procedures', 'flying the approach as depicted', 'flying above the terrain unless in the circling area'. Using such novel concepts results in 'acceptable risks'.
Have you been to a surgeon recently? These days they list every single possible side effect that has ever been observed or has been predicted to observe before getting you to sign your life away. Do you propose that in future, all passengers must demonstrate their ATPL exam results before being allowed to board so that they are aware of the risks that the pilot is exposed to but have been deemed acceptable?
Oversimplified scaremongering crap such as this article does nothing to inform or prepare passengers for the flight they are about to take. My theory on why air and rail accidents recieve so much coverage is quite simply because the average joe, when boarding, has no idea how to actually drive the plane/train to the desitination and so accepts that responsibility for their safety is no longer in their hands. Apart from the 'there is a very small chance we may crash', there is no intermediate level of knowledge that the punters can have which will let them accurately judge what is going on until you reach, say, an ATPL or equivilent.
UTR.
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Diatryma,
The Mt Hotham pilot may well have been SD'd....BUT he was well outside published procedures and crashed for that reason. UTR makes a valid point.
IFR training is all about managing the risk of SD - how to avoid/minimise it, recognise it, and how to deal with it i.e. trust the instruments and your IFR training.
Almost without fail, when I see/hear a media story these days on something I know a bit about, it's wildly off the mark. So when I read about something I'm not knowledgeable about, I tend to be very cynical about it. Because the vast majority of the readers are NOT aviation-savvy, this sort of drivel constitutes nothing more than space-filler scaremongering.
PHTR
The Mt Hotham pilot may well have been SD'd....BUT he was well outside published procedures and crashed for that reason. UTR makes a valid point.
IFR training is all about managing the risk of SD - how to avoid/minimise it, recognise it, and how to deal with it i.e. trust the instruments and your IFR training.
Almost without fail, when I see/hear a media story these days on something I know a bit about, it's wildly off the mark. So when I read about something I'm not knowledgeable about, I tend to be very cynical about it. Because the vast majority of the readers are NOT aviation-savvy, this sort of drivel constitutes nothing more than space-filler scaremongering.
PHTR
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PHTR,
Fair enough - and I agree with you and UTR in relation to your first point.
I just think if passengers in certain circumstances are more aware the various aspects and risks involved in flying into less than marginal conditions, the might be less inclined to try to influence pilots actions. Certainly most pilots worth their salt would not be influenced - but it does happen.
Is there really much in the article that is wrong? He seems to have based most of what he said on Newman's report or the aviation expert Ray Cronin.
I'm not usually one for sticking up for journalists, but in this case I think you guys might be being a bit hard on him.
IMHO.
Cheers,
Di
Fair enough - and I agree with you and UTR in relation to your first point.
I just think if passengers in certain circumstances are more aware the various aspects and risks involved in flying into less than marginal conditions, the might be less inclined to try to influence pilots actions. Certainly most pilots worth their salt would not be influenced - but it does happen.
Is there really much in the article that is wrong? He seems to have based most of what he said on Newman's report or the aviation expert Ray Cronin.
I'm not usually one for sticking up for journalists, but in this case I think you guys might be being a bit hard on him.
IMHO.
Cheers,
Di
Spatial Disorientation is always waiting to bite you when you least expect it in my opinion....
I've copped it once for about fifteen seconds - on a perfectly still winters day at Point Cook. Low Grey overcast, low light, lots of haze, and I took off on 17 straight out over grey water with no wind/waves. Guess what? Once over water, no anchored ships and no horizon!
It's a weird feeling, not knowing which way is up, but a quick glance at the AH and a look over the shoulder at land fixed it. Did a few circuits and watched the same thing try to happen to me each time.
I've copped it once for about fifteen seconds - on a perfectly still winters day at Point Cook. Low Grey overcast, low light, lots of haze, and I took off on 17 straight out over grey water with no wind/waves. Guess what? Once over water, no anchored ships and no horizon!
It's a weird feeling, not knowing which way is up, but a quick glance at the AH and a look over the shoulder at land fixed it. Did a few circuits and watched the same thing try to happen to me each time.
AustralianMade
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TCFOR,
Not particularly, although it gets a bit time consuming on the Fokker Triplane. It is generally recommended to get a fair bit of practise using the WDM when flying multi-winged aircraft.
Note, specialist WDM training is required on swing-wing aircraft. Ask any pig driver.
Cheers,
If I fly a biplane, do I need a special rating for the more complex wing detach procedure or will the standard one do?
Note, specialist WDM training is required on swing-wing aircraft. Ask any pig driver.
Cheers,
