Ywe Vor Approach Minima
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Ywe Vor Approach Minima
On the YWE VOR chart it states that the MDA is 2750ft , however there is a requirment to add 50ft to aerodrome approaches when an area QNH is used. This procedure is designed to become visual and continue the flight VFR. The MDA 2750 gives you 1000ft AGL clearance
My question: there is no aerodrome at YWE so do you have to add the 50ft to this MDA or has it been accounted for in the chart.
My question: there is no aerodrome at YWE so do you have to add the 50ft to this MDA or has it been accounted for in the chart.
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I think you will find that adding 50 feet to the minima is for PEC. Pressure Error Correction. That is, certaing aircraft altimeters are graded to a specific standard. In your aircraft flight manual it will tell you what the
PEC is for your aircraft. On the ILS particualrly when you are so low to the ground, the law asks that you add the PEC to your minimums so as to not break your minimums with a dodgy altimeter.
It sounds as though you are asking a PEC question in which you should consult the flight manual. I'll dig out my YWE chart and have a look.
It has been a while since I instructed so forgive me if i'm completely off the track
PEC is for your aircraft. On the ILS particualrly when you are so low to the ground, the law asks that you add the PEC to your minimums so as to not break your minimums with a dodgy altimeter.
It sounds as though you are asking a PEC question in which you should consult the flight manual. I'll dig out my YWE chart and have a look.
It has been a while since I instructed so forgive me if i'm completely off the track
DAP Chart
On the DAP chart it says to use Area QNH, it is written just above the vertical profile diagram, so I suppose it is trying to state to use Area QNH with no additive. About as clear as mud though! Don't have Jepps at home will have a look later.
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Hey, yeah, a little off track.. I'm aware of the requirment for PEC on ILS approaches... This thread is relating to adding 50ft when only an AREA QNH is available. (i.e. no actual or forecast aerodrome QNH available).
JEPP TERMINAL 35.3 QNH SOURCES
5.3.1 Prior to passing the IAF, pilots are required to set either:
a) the actual aerodrome QNH from an approved source, or
b) the forecast Terminal QNH, or
c) the forecast area QNH.
5.3.2 The landing, cirling, and alternate minima for many Australian instrument approach and DME or GPS arrival procedures were calculated using forecast aerodrome QNH. These minima may be reduced by 100ft whenever actual aerodrome QNH is obtained. At locations where forecast QNH was used in the minima calculation, Jeppessen potrays the minima for both forecast QNH and actual QNH.
5.3.3 Where the forecast area QNH is used the Forecast Terminal QNH minima used must be increased by 50ft.
On all aerodrome charts it clearly defines the minima for either:
Actual Aero QNH or Forecast Terminal QNH
However the YWE chart states VFR which leaves me wondering if i have to add 50ft to this minima because it does not state Forecast Terminal QNH
JEPP TERMINAL 35.3 QNH SOURCES
5.3.1 Prior to passing the IAF, pilots are required to set either:
a) the actual aerodrome QNH from an approved source, or
b) the forecast Terminal QNH, or
c) the forecast area QNH.
5.3.2 The landing, cirling, and alternate minima for many Australian instrument approach and DME or GPS arrival procedures were calculated using forecast aerodrome QNH. These minima may be reduced by 100ft whenever actual aerodrome QNH is obtained. At locations where forecast QNH was used in the minima calculation, Jeppessen potrays the minima for both forecast QNH and actual QNH.
5.3.3 Where the forecast area QNH is used the Forecast Terminal QNH minima used must be increased by 50ft.
On all aerodrome charts it clearly defines the minima for either:
Actual Aero QNH or Forecast Terminal QNH
However the YWE chart states VFR which leaves me wondering if i have to add 50ft to this minima because it does not state Forecast Terminal QNH
Statement
look at paragragh 5.3.3 AIP ENR
It states that you must add 50ft if using forcast Area QNH, it doesn't state the Jepp part about adding to the forcast terminal QNH minina.
So I think that you need to add it, purely because AIP would overrule the Jepps. Well I think so???
In saying this I feel that the approach has been designed not to add it but the above states that you must!
It states that you must add 50ft if using forcast Area QNH, it doesn't state the Jepp part about adding to the forcast terminal QNH minina.
So I think that you need to add it, purely because AIP would overrule the Jepps. Well I think so???
In saying this I feel that the approach has been designed not to add it but the above states that you must!
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Old Vs New
Interesting question Mango! I wonder if it has something to do if the YWE plate being one of the very few in the DAPs that comes under the Old criteria chart.
Have to investigate further and get back to you.
MM
Have to investigate further and get back to you.
MM
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The JEPPS YWE chart has changed to PANS OPS criteria on the 23rd Sep 05.
Four aircraft categories (A,B,C,D) are included in a small box on the left of the chart along with the annotation PANS OPS on the side..
Four aircraft categories (A,B,C,D) are included in a small box on the left of the chart along with the annotation PANS OPS on the side..
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I asked myself the exact same question only yesterday, as there is no TAF for YWE, I would agree with Allicedup, in that it would appear to be designed into the approach.
Though this doesn't appear on the Jepps.
Seems a bit of a grey area to me.
On the DAP chart it says to use Area QNH, it is written just above the vertical profile diagram
Seems a bit of a grey area to me.
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Hey, I had to do the YWE VOR approach for my MECIR test and I was having this exact conversation with the ATO when giving my pre-approach brief to him. And guess what? We couldn't agree either whether an extra 50 feet had to be added to the MDA.
So I decided to level off at 2800 ft anyway, as this would add the 50 ft requirement just in case, as well as keep me within the + 100 feet tolerance of the MDA, so all was sweet. BTW, during my training, we always added 50 ft to the MDA for YWE VOR because Area QNH is used as you can't get an actual QNH there. Hope this helps.
So I decided to level off at 2800 ft anyway, as this would add the 50 ft requirement just in case, as well as keep me within the + 100 feet tolerance of the MDA, so all was sweet. BTW, during my training, we always added 50 ft to the MDA for YWE VOR because Area QNH is used as you can't get an actual QNH there. Hope this helps.
Very simple answer to this question, forget what approach you are doing and just follow the wording of the rule.
If you are using area QNH for an approach you must increase the minima by 50ft.
If there was any other answer it would be written in the AIP.
Aus Jep plates are basically copied from dap documents and forced to fit in the jep format hence some very small issues/differences if you look for them.
If you are using area QNH for an approach you must increase the minima by 50ft.
If there was any other answer it would be written in the AIP.
Aus Jep plates are basically copied from dap documents and forced to fit in the jep format hence some very small issues/differences if you look for them.
